Kill already owns 3 of the most embarrassing losses in program history

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Gopher in Dixie said:
Get a grip people. Yes, Kill has had a horrendous start to his tenure at the U, but give it a couple of seasons. Those of you clamoring for a "proven D-1 winner" are smoking something. NO ONE with a proven track record and choice of schools is gonna want this job and I don't care how much $ you throw out there.
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Well it's too late now (or is it?) but Mike Leach was a winner at TT and he went public with his desire to coach Minnesota.
 

gopherdudepart2 said:
I was one of the people that thought coach Kill could help
turn things around because NIU was a pit and he turned them around. Some times you cannot turn around a bad program no matter how hard
and how much effort a coach puts into it. MINNESOTA is the worst program in division one football and it is not even close.
It is going to take a lot to recover from this season, a lot of change.
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Northern Illinois was a bowl team in 04 and 06, but yes they had bad year in 07. I'm not saying Kill didn't improve and go to three bowls, but it wasn't quite the miracle some would have you believe.
 

gopherdudepart2 said:
Give the guy this much credit, Kill, at least he wanted to try and turn around this turd. MINNESOTA is the biggest TURD in all of college football.
Players have already quit on him and are not even trying. Takes a lot of dislike for players to quit on a coach. These players
have QUIT on this entire coaching staff. This rah rah BS about disciplinarian stuff will only carry you so far.

There is no reason for optimism for 2-3 years unless a lot of people leave the program and we suddenly
recruit JUCO super stars from hell which will not happen. We are set up for years of losing games, there is no getting past that fact.
There is no effort, the team quit when it got to 14-0, they flat out quit today. The mental aspect is already shot and I don't think these coaches
can get them back no matter what they try.
I was one of the people that thought coach Kill could help
turn things around because NIU was a pit and he turned them around. Some times you cannot turn around a bad program no matter how hard
and how much effort a coach puts into it. MINNESOTA is the worst program in division one football and it is not even close.
It is going to take a lot to recover from this season, a lot of change.
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Juco superstars....from hell L O L
 

GIVE THE MAN A CHANCE TO AT LEAST GET 2 RECRUITING CLASSES! THESE AREN'T HIS PLAYERS!
 



zambam said:
GIVE THE MAN A CHANCE TO AT LEAST GET 2 RECRUITING CLASSES! THESE AREN'T HIS PLAYERS!
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These were the best recruits Minnesota had ever gotten. Rivals even said so.

Look at posts from this summer - it's already obvious that Kill doesn't recruit as well as Brewster does. dpodell even says so


So if Kill can't win with these beasts, why would he win with the caliber of players he can recruit?
 


Its early in Kill's tenure and I hope we see some sort of improvement throughout the remainder of this season and in to next season but this is tough to watch.

The more I think about the current state of the Athletic Department, the more I think Maturi needs to be let go. The Athletic Department needs an individual who has a business background that knows how to manage multiple asset groups.
Assume you have 3 asset groups to split your money between with 1 of the 3 earning significantly more in revenue than the others, do you invest in all 3 evenly or do you invest the greatest portion in your biggest earner hoping to enable greater gains?
This is a big area that Maturi fails as an AD. He's choking off his biggest earners by investing more money into his teams that are never going to have a positive impact on the bottom line.
If an AD can turn his biggest earners into winners, this will generate even more money which means he would get the greatest possible return on investmen by allocating more money to the football, basketball and hockey teams.
By spending more money on coaches, marketing and recruiting of the revenue earning sports the likelihood winning increases which in turn sould increase fan excitment and finally having a positive impact on revenue.

Back to Kill, he's gonna be here at least 3-4 years so let's not jump the gun on his ability as a coach. However, if/when Kill is gone let's hope Maturi isn't the one doing the hiring of the next coach.
 

1999 Iowa Hawkeye Schedule (Kirk Ferentz, 1st Year)

Nebraska Loss, 42-7
@ Iowa State Loss, 17-10
Northern Illinois Win, 24-0
@ Michigan State Loss, 49-3
Penn State Loss, 31-7
@ Northwestern Loss, 23-21
Indiana Loss, 38-31
@ Ohio State Loss, 41-11
Illinois Loss, 40-24
@ Wisconsin Loss, 41-3
Minnesota Loss, 25-21

Final Record: 1-10


1990 Wisconsin Badgers Schedule (Barry Alvarez, 1st Year)

California L 12-28
Ball State W 24-7
Temple L 18-24
Michigan L 3-41
@ Iowa L 10-30
@ Northwestern L 34-44
Illinois L 3-21
Minnesota L 3-21
@ Indiana L 7-20
Ohio State L 10-35
@ Michigan State L 9-14

Final Record: 1-10


This will probably get worse before it gets better. Hopefully Kill can take this team in the trajectory of these coaches; whether he will or not remains to be seen. Having sadi that, There were some ugly losses on both of these teams at one point as well. It's whether, at some point, we can take that turn or not. Only time will tell I guess.
 




BisonGopher said:
These were the best recruits Minnesota had ever gotten. Rivals even said so.

Look at posts from this summer - it's already obvious that Kill doesn't recruit as well as Brewster does. dpodell even says so


So if Kill can't win with these beasts, why would he win with the caliber of players he can recruit?
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I don't care what the rankings say, let the man do it the way he thinks it should be done, what are you gonna do? Fire him? No one would want the job.
 

Gopher in Dixie said:
That's part of it. But consider this, if this team is not responding to Kill's form of discipline, I submit the reaction would be far worse to Leach.
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You mean like..winning games? Yeah that would be one heck of a reaction...
 

zambam said:
I don't care what the rankings say, let the man do it the way he thinks it should be done, what are you gonna do? Fire him? No one would want the job.
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He's not going to be fired this year - even if they lose every game from here on out 0-80.

I know what I would do if I was the coach, I would hit the reset button. ie, next year's seniors, juniors and redshirt soph: you can stay in the program if you like and keep your scholarship - but you're not playing, so start researching your transfer options now if you'd like to do that. Then keep every scheme the same for the next 4 years.

Maybe it wouldn't work - but at least it's doing something different. Can't keep going this same way.
 



BisonGopher said:
He's not going to be fired this year - even if they lose every game from here on out 0-80.

I know what I would do if I was the coach, I would hit the reset button. ie, next year's seniors, juniors and redshirt soph: you can stay in the program if you like and keep your scholarship - but you're not playing, so start researching your transfer options now if you'd like to do that. Then keep every scheme the same for the next 4 years.

Maybe it wouldn't work - but at least it's doing something different. Can't keep going this same way.
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this is a great idea if you want to make sure no one comes to the games anymore! if we take your logic we wont win a single game next year
 

BisonGopher said:
I know what I would do if I was the coach, I would hit the reset button. ie, next year's seniors, juniors and redshirt soph: you can stay in the program if you like and keep your scholarship - but you're not playing, so start researching your transfer options now if you'd like to do that. Then keep every scheme the same for the next 4 years
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Our APR would be hit so hard we would face scholarship losses that would negate some of the "open" scholarships the mass transfers would provide
 

Iron Mining Gopher said:
Art, maybe its time you cheer for a new team, it is obvious you will never cheer for this one
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No, Art is cheering for the correct team. Nobody needs to invite any Gopher fan to leave because of his God given right to have an opinion. I don't know Art, but I think his voice is necessary in this hour. I think his perspective is clear, unclouded, unfettered and just as intellectually rigorous, if not more so than most on this site.

Mining Gopher, the history of tolerance is a long and brutal one that grew out of the 100 years war. Let's not make the mistake of thinking it is a bad idea and to ask that anyone that differs in opinion be put shut out of the dialogue.

Yes, Kill does own the 3 most embarrassing loses in school history. And, I think quite soon we will see the worst score in the history of Gopher football, repeated and then repeated again. When all is said and done, we will have had the worst 6 year stretch in team history.
 

lakesgopher said:
this is a great idea if you want to make sure no one comes to the games anymore! if we take your logic we wont win a single game next year
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I already admitted that next year would be bad too. Even if the team loses every game here on out - there will still be like 30-40k at the games. There were for Brewster.

Gopher football games are still an event for people who like the tailgating, like the event - the casual fans. You might lose the hardcore fans but so what? They only buy maybe 10% of the tickets.



Hypothetical: if you had to sacrifice the 2012 season by playing only young guys in order to save the program - would you still blackball it? Would you rather things keep going in 4 year Brewster/Kill cycles?
 

That's right. They won't be his players when he recruits them either. They are not his property. They are human beings with choice and intelligence. They come here because they want to, and the coach may be the first reason they come, but the shine of that wears off at the first practice.
 

BisonGopher said:
I already admitted that next year would be bad too. Even if the team loses every game here on out - there will still be like 30-40k at the games. There were for Brewster.

Gopher football games are still an event for people who like the tailgating, like the event - the casual fans. You might lose the hardcore fans but so what? They only buy maybe 10% of the tickets.



Hypothetical: if you had to sacrifice the 2012 season by playing only young guys in order to save the program - would you still blackball it? Would you rather things keep going in 4 year Brewster/Kill cycles?
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our home schedule sucks next year, renewals will be at an all time low next year, your idea is horrible! it basically takes away all competition in practice and tosses it out the window as well as destroys any depth we may have!

just a stupid disgusting idea!
 

lakesgopher said:
our home schedule sucks next year, renewals will be at an all time low next year, your idea is horrible! it basically takes away all competition in practice and tosses it out the window as well as destroys any depth we may have!

just a stupid disgusting idea!
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I had agreed with my buddy to renew our tickets for next year as well and then dump them if things don't get better. But since i've only made one game this year and likely will only go to teh Nebraska game, I don't see why I'd keep tickets and financially support this effort by the University. I can cheer for them for free, but I don't care to pay for mediocrity.
 

BisonGopher said:
I already admitted that next year would be bad too. Even if the team loses every game here on out - there will still be like 30-40k at the games. There were for Brewster.

Gopher football games are still an event for people who like the tailgating, like the event - the casual fans. You might lose the hardcore fans but so what? They only buy maybe 10% of the tickets.



Hypothetical: if you had to sacrifice the 2012 season by playing only young guys in order to save the program - would you still blackball it? Would you rather things keep going in 4 year Brewster/Kill cycles?
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HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF THE APR?!?!?!?!?
 

lakesgopher said:
our home schedule sucks next year, renewals will be at an all time low next year, your idea is horrible! it basically takes away all competition in practice and tosses it out the window as well as destroys any depth we may have!

just a stupid disgusting idea!
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The schedule doesn't matter to casual football fans. A Gopher football home game is a home game. Casual people come for the tailgating, to be at the game, see friends, go back on campus, etc. The social event of it. If what you said were true, then New Mexico State game would've had 10k fans.

Competition and depth will be there enough to make it through the year.


Again, the hypothetical: if you had to sacrifice the 2012 season by playing only young guys in order to save the program - would you still blackball it? Would you rather things keep going in 4 year Brewster/Kill cycles?

A non answer means that you support the status quo direction of the program.
 

Maximus said:
HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF THE APR?!?!?!?!?
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"The NCAA does adjust APR, on a student-by-student basis, in two circumstances—when a player transfers to another school with a sufficiently high GPA, or leaves for a professional sports career while still in good academic standing."
 

BisonGopher said:
And my counterpoint: why does it mean they should be optimistic about the future?
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Good question, let’s explore it a little.

Attitude has an immediate and measureable effect on behavior. The Gophers football team’s first issue is changing their attitude in order to attain the mental discipline required on each play to be successful on that play. They will build one play at a time. When the proper approach is in place positive results are possible. A positive thought process is the first step for each individual player on that path.

How does this relate to an individual fan?

Probably, not that much; however, the collective fan base projecting positive thoughts (not ridiculous optimism) certainly does have an effect. I hear all the time the complaints about Twin Cities sports writers have on the program. There is some truth to that. I think the collective fan base has a greater affect, just not so much individually.

Much is said and written here about the Wisconsin turnaround. I can guarantee that if no one thought it was possible then it would not have happened.

Nonetheless, as an individual fan you have a choice. Will you project said positive thoughts and contribute in that regard? Or, will you be negative and take away from the team’s mission. That is a personal decision.

Ultimately, the players must believe a turnaround is possible first. I simply choose not to engage in any behavior that hinders that process.
 

What matters id what WE SEE people. What do you see? This is worse than anything in 25 years. Kill has been a disaster, plain and simple. How does he have any credibility?
 

alltimetwinsfan said:
1999 Iowa Hawkeye Schedule (Kirk Ferentz, 1st Year)

Nebraska Loss, 42-7
@ Iowa State Loss, 17-10
Northern Illinois Win, 24-0
@ Michigan State Loss, 49-3
Penn State Loss, 31-7
@ Northwestern Loss, 23-21
Indiana Loss, 38-31
@ Ohio State Loss, 41-11
Illinois Loss, 40-24
@ Wisconsin Loss, 41-3
Minnesota Loss, 25-21

Final Record: 1-10


1990 Wisconsin Badgers Schedule (Barry Alvarez, 1st Year)

California L 12-28
Ball State W 24-7
Temple L 18-24
Michigan L 3-41
@ Iowa L 10-30
@ Northwestern L 34-44
Illinois L 3-21
Minnesota L 3-21
@ Indiana L 7-20
Ohio State L 10-35
@ Michigan State L 9-14

Final Record: 1-10


This will probably get worse before it gets better. Hopefully Kill can take this team in the trajectory of these coaches; whether he will or not remains to be seen. Having sadi that, There were some ugly losses on both of these teams at one point as well. It's whether, at some point, we can take that turn or not. Only time will tell I guess.
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That requires the faith that Kill is the equivalent of Ferentz and Alvarez. I have no such faith. Sad thing is we could have had Alvarez if we would have fired Gutey earlier - Holtz had sold Barry on our program.
 

Great Plains Gopher said:
That requires the faith that Kill is the equivalent of Ferentz and Alvarez. I have no such faith. Sad thing is we could have had Alvarez if we would have fired Gutey earlier - Holtz had sold Barry on our program.
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Take it a step further than just not having faith - Gopher fans, as much as any in BCS, should KNOW when something isn't right. The fanbase just went through it for 4 years!

Even in a 1-10 (1-11) season you can see signs of life if things are going to get better. So far, there aren't any. Hopefully there will be.
 

akgopher said:
We have an 18 yr old and an another unproven playing QB, and how many junior and senior lineman do you see starting? Not to mention the worst defense in the nation returning. The only proven B10 caliber players on the field are McKnight, who has regressed, Tinsley, and Stoudemire.

Look at how many freshman are on the field. What did you expect? I did think we would beat New Mexico State and NDSU, but in hindsight we are worse than I thought. Furthermore, how many coordinators have our redshirt seniors gone through? 5 in 5 years on offense, 4 in 5 on defense? I don't know the exact numbers but suspect they are in that range.
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At the risk of irking Art on fact checking (I couldn't find the two-deeps and don't know who started today), we've had three seniors on the OL (Bunders, Orton, Wynn) and two seniors on the DL (Kirskey, Jacobs). Not bad.
 

zambam said:
I don't care what the rankings say, let the man do it the way he thinks it should be done, what are you gonna do? Fire him? No one would want the job.
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Exactly. I'm not on the Kill bandwagon, but he's what we got for awhile. As I've said in a couple other threads, I think it's clear that Kill has lost many of the Brewster recruits and from his comments in the press he's more or less indicated his attitude is 'good riddance, I'll work with the ones that are on board'. Unfortunately in the short term that is certain to make the team even worse than it was last year.

I'm not saying that his approach will work, but that appears to be his philosophy, and since we hired him we've basically agreed to let him try it out. If in a year or two he's still saying the same thing we can tell him he's full of crap and can him. Until then, though, deal with it, because you can post on Gopherhole as much as you want, but Kill's going to be here awhile.
 

Torres9 said:
I've supported Kill from the beginning (go back and check my posts) but this is an absolute joke.

There is a difference between losing and whatever-you-want-to-call-the-start-to-this-season.

If I were Kaler, I'd fire Maturi today. I also would not be patient this offseason if Kill can't show some substance here. Honestly, his "blue collar work-aholic" stuff is starting to sound like as much of a schtick as Brew's dream big nonsense.

I'm not even angry anymore, just embarrassed.
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This sums up my feelings.
 

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