Jerry Kill

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Bob_Loblaw said:
I'm not sure about all of them, but Barber, Martin, Coughlin, Winfield, Smith, and Brooks all were pretty darn good before Fleck came to be.
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Agreed, that staff had a nice history of developing defensive players and running backs.

Bob_Loblaw said:
Yes, I will give Kill credit for that class. He recruited them.
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A little more than half the class committed after Jerry quit. Doesn't mean he didn't have a role in the recruitment, but also hard to give him total credit. Sherels was a rock star in that class. Give him the credit.
 

60's Guy said:
So, PJ has 3 recruiting classes. Yet, The Empire class is overwhelmingly the best group. I’ll spot you Bateman and Mo...who are all these gems you refer to? PJ told us it was Spann Ford...and?
I don’t see the evidence you refer to on the field as better recruiting than we had. Are we judging by the claimed top 25 rankings or recruits on the field in the lineup?
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You're trolling right. Bateman and Mo are the only two good recruits Fleck has brought in? Really? Come on....you can't be that blind, all you have to do is look at the offense to see Fleck's influence on that side of the ball with starters all over the place.

The Empire group in 2016 was a very good class. And it is no surprise that as upperclassmen they are some of the best players on the team, that is typically how it works. It was a rare year for Minnesota high school talent with the number of quality players that came from the state. Just don't look at the 2015 or 2014 classes because you will see a whole lot of names you won't recognize of players that never made meaningful contributions.

All right, time for me to tap out of this thread....should have known there was no way a thread titled Jerry Kill would lead to anything good at this point. Time to go back to enjoying 8-0, looking forward to Penn State and being thrilled about the trajectory of Gopher Football.

Maybe use the time here to rewatch a few of the games from this season, you might even spot some Fleck players beyond Mo and Bateman that look pretty good.....
 

tjgopher said:
Depends on your definition of significant contributors as freshmen. None of the the three you mentioned were contributing as freshmen at anywhere near the level they are now. None.

TJ had 14 catches for 141 yards his entire freshman year. He has had roughly that in single games multiple times last year and this year.
Coughlin started one game as a freshman and had two sacks for the year. More of leader then? C'mon now.
Devers had five tackles as a freshman for the entire season.



I'd say Bateman, Autman-Bell, Mo, Morgan, Andries, Faalele, Dunlap are all worth mentioning. Currently a ton of FR and SO who have not seen the field on an every down basis who are going to be REALLY good (including Spann-Ford).
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Not to nitpick, but Andries committed to us during the Claeys era. PJ kept him though.


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PoockItInfor6 said:
I liked Kill, but you all forget how maddening RUTM offense was. <b>And Empire is a great class, but each since have been at least as good!</b>
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Overall I think it is obvious that PJ is a better recruiter than Kill. However, it is far from determined that any of PJ’s classes, much less each since, will be as good as TC’s 2016 Empire Class. I’ll also assume you are talking 2018 and 2019 because I really doubt his 2017 class will price to be.


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Spoofin said:
Overall I think it is obvious that PJ is a better recruiter than Kill. However, it is far from determined that any of PJ’s classes, much less each since, will be as good as TC’s 2016 Empire Class. I’ll also assume you are talking 2018 and 2019 because I really doubt his 2017 class will price to be.


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Looking at the 2017 class:

Blaise Andries
Douglas
Autman-Bell
Paulson
Schmitz
Ibrahim
Morgan
Van Dyne
Mafe
Otomewo

Pretty good bunch of current contributors. Most have two years of eligibility left. As seniors they may quite possibly outshine the Empire class.
 

BroncoRedux said:
Looking at the 2017 class:

Blaise Andries
Douglas
Autman-Bell
Paulson
Schmitz
Ibrahim
Morgan
Van Dyne
Mafe
Otomewo

Pretty good bunch of current contributors. Most have two years of eligibility left. As seniors they may quite possibly outshine the Empire class.
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They could, there is still time, but they have a ways to go. As I said, I doubt they will.


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Spoofin said:
Overall I think it is obvious that PJ is a better recruiter than Kill. However, it is far from determined that any of PJ’s classes, much less each since, will be as good as TC’s 2016 Empire Class. I’ll also assume you are talking 2018 and 2019 because I really doubt his 2017 class will price to be.


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In a year where MN, HS didn’t produce much...
Best statistics QB the Gophers have ever had, JMS, Blaise, CAB, Mo, Mafe, Douglas... And the Empire class was significantly influenced by Carter, and was the best HS class produced by MN in AT least 10 years...
 

If you are going to start attributing the team success to various parts, at some point you need to acknowledge the QB.
 

PoockItInfor6 said:
<b>In a year where MN, HS didn’t produce much...</b>
Best statistics QB the Gophers have ever had, JMS, Blaise, CAB, Mo, Mafe, Douglas... <b>And the Empire class was significantly influenced by Carter, and was the best HS class produced by MN in AT least 10 years...</b>
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What does any of the bolded have to do with whether the ‘16 or ‘17 class is better? I get you want to diminish what the previous coaches did for some ridiculous reason - but that has nothing to do with your own argument.


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Flash30 said:
I’d bet good money on it that we wouldn’t be 8-0 with Kill as coach. Why do we keep talking about him? He’s not here.
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Amen. I supported Kill (and Claeys for that matter) 150% when they were here, as with the previous coaches. Now they are not. To me it's ancient history, and most of that not great history.

And to borrow a line from Urban Meyer recently about coaches taking over, "their" guys/recruits, etc... Every single player on this roster is Fleck's guy. They were Fleck's players as soon as he took over at that opening presser. And they've been Fleck's players ever since. Every one of them could have left, a few did, many did not.

None of the current roster belongs to Kill. End of story.
 

LivinOnLove_BuyingOnRoses said:
Not to nitpick, but Andries committed to us during the Claeys era. PJ kept him though.
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I count Andries as a PJ recruit. Blaise momentarily reopened his recruitment after Tracy was let go. Blaise had many schools calling him, and I think a couple visited him (maybe Michigan State, Arkansas, and Iowa, among others, I can't fully remember). I consider Blaise as being Fleck's first "non-WMU flip" recruit at Minnesota. That said, if someone wants to nit pick that, I won't argue, since he definitely committed to Claeys.
 

JWG said:
Jerry sailed his own ship, so I don't have any emotional tie. Had all the love in the world through 2016. Then he started changing jobs and schools every year, bad mouthed a coach in a way that makes no sense. His PJ is about himself schtick just doesn't play out.

Appreciate him for what he did, but I have stronger ties to Mason who really dug us out of the gutter (too bad Brewster put us back) and stuck around and continues to be a decent MN promoter.
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100% agree. I have always struggled with the great love for a .500 coach.
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
And to borrow a line from Urban Meyer recently about coaches taking over, "their" guys/recruits, etc... Every single player on this roster is Fleck's guy. They were Fleck's players as soon as he took over at that opening presser. And they've been Fleck's players ever since. Every one of them could have left, a few did, many did not.

None of the current roster belongs to Kill. End of story.
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Throw in that some of them were front and center during and after that embarrassing player "boycott" stunt.....Fleck and crew did an amazing job keeping them in the fold.
 

Kill is an immature piece of work.
Glad he is no longer associated with the program.
If he ever gets brought back I will boo.


If Claeys ever gets brought back I will stand and applaud.
 

Tredwell said:
Throw in that some of them were front and center during and after that embarrassing player "boycott" stunt.....Fleck and crew did an amazing job keeping them in the fold.
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One of his greatest recruiting wins was convincing Winfield (and his dad) to stay, after the debacle. I wonder how he pulled that off?


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PitinoFan said:
One of his greatest recruiting wins was convincing Winfield (and his dad) to stay, after the debacle. I wonder how he pulled that off?


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All we really had were rumors and quotes from AW Sr. if I remember correctly. Did this ever really pick up steam? For all we know AW Jr. never intended to leave.

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PitinoFan said:
One of his greatest recruiting wins was convincing Winfield (and his dad) to stay, after the debacle. I wonder how he pulled that off?


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Amen. Last I heard from Antione Winfield Sr was his son would be going to a new school.

The Winfield's are a special family in my heart. Dad is one of my top 3 all-time favorite Vikings and Son is one of my 3 all-time top favorite Gophers.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
Yeah with all respect to Jerry.

I feel like we maybe saw the platu with him in 2014.

Still a great accomplishment as a coach ... but dude was not going to change offensive coordinators / that offense ...
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agree. kill was 0-5 in bowl games.
 
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I forgot how bad Kill was in Bowl games, but I think he improved the program for the better.

I supported Kill 150% and was sad when he had to quit. It was odd times for our athletic program at that time.
But after he left, he lost some of my support. I'm sure he's still a genuine good guy, but my support isn't the same.

Claeys I supported 100% early, but he lost me while he was still HC here.

Drawing conclusions that his team would have been this successful or would have beaten WI last year with the previous coaches is a conclusion I'm not going to jump to.
 

stocker08 said:
All we really had were rumors and quotes from AW Sr. if I remember correctly. Did this ever really pick up steam? For all we know AW Jr. never intended to leave.

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I remember a quote from Sr. yelling at Claeys for not “taking care” of his son. I think there was also some talk of transferring at some point, but I don’t recall exactly what was said. I thought for sure he was gone. Being accused of something of that magnitude, and being suspended from from the team, would probably make me want to leave, if I was completely innocent. We don’t know why Winfield was on that list of players, but I have a hard time believing he had anything to do with it.


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PitinoFan said:
I remember a quote from Sr. yelling at Claeys for not “taking care” of his son. I think there was also some talk of transferring at some point, but I don’t recall exactly what was said. I thought for sure he was gone. Being accused of something of that magnitude, and being suspended from from the team, would probably make me want to leave, if I was completely innocent. We don’t know why Winfield was on that list of players, but I have a hard time believing he had anything to do with it.


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I think that was the issue...seeing your son's name, your name, drug through the mud when they are completely innocent would make a guy mighty angry. I'd probably have the same reaction of my kids not going there! Ultimately though your kid is an adult and he gets to decide for himself, thank goodness he stayed! Heck of a player!
 

PitinoFan said:
I remember a quote from Sr. yelling at Claeys for not “taking care” of his son. I think there was also some talk of transferring at some point, but I don’t recall exactly what was said. I thought for sure he was gone. Being accused of something of that magnitude, and being suspended from from the team, would probably make me want to leave, if I was completely innocent. We don’t know why Winfield was on that list of players, but I have a hard time believing he had anything to do with it.


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Yeah.

I assume Sr. came to his senses later and realized that the way things are structured the coach and AD aren't in a position to know a great deal / defend anyone. Just structurally that's not how it works so TC can't do anything.
 

14-21 RECORD in 4 plus years is pretty mediocre. The class that are seniors now provided talent but the facts are that this staff developed them.
 

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