Jack Wilson commits

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pharmacygopher said:
Not saying it true but could make the argument that bringing in a banger like Wilson has allowed PP to get better in the post and finishing through contact better.

The commentators the other night mentioned how much better he is even compared to the beginning of the season.

Could going against someone like Wilson help contribute to PPs development? 🤷‍♂️
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Sure, you'd have to make an argument like that if you were hell bent on showing that Wilson was a good signing. It's completely a wild guess from everyone.

He is not a Big 10 quality basketball player. He has the worst advanced stats of any player I've ever seen (no hyperbole), so I cannot imagine how that would have helped Payne improve at basketball.
 


EasyThere Pilgrim said:
I GUARANTEE you guys would have been campaigning for Haskins' firing too.

His first 2 seasons had a terrible won-loss record...and even on his good teams he had guys like Hosea Crittenden and other bench-warmers.
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You've completely lost it.

A. Where did I campaign for Ben to be fired? I was mocking the idiotic takes on this site but I 100% think Ben has earned a 4th season.

B. No one was campaigning for Clem to be hired in year 3, he went to the Sweet 16. That idiotic argument of yours (comparing Ben to Clem) ended in Year 3.

C. Crittenden was a walk on and I realize all coaches have misses. Most coaches don't choose players they absolutely know (or should know) are misses.

D. We only play 6-7 guys, he clearly has WAY more misses than ole Clem.
 


EasyThere Pilgrim said:
Would you want a scenario where Garcia & Christie dominate and carry the team through the NIT ? Really break out and have scouts taking extra notice?

Me...my #1 hope by far is that everyone returns.
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I just hope Gopher players play well.
 


Gopheritnow said:
Paynes improvement has been a little better than stated above. His footwork is better, he finishes better. His PPG would be better, but this isn’t a team who spends much time passing to post up centers. His moves to the basket now start further out, and no he doesnt lose the ball that often. He is a relentless worker, and a load on the boards. Plus, his FT shooting has improved considerably. Did Wilson’s practice presence help? Hard to say, I wasnot at practice, along with everyone else here. But it’s hard to practice and improve moves and box outs against players inferior in size to you. In that vein Wilson might have contributed?

The Gophers have not had that bad a year for a team picked to finish last in the league. They have mostly been competitive, there are teams with far more talent that have had poorer years. I know this has been trying for the Fire Ben crowd, but you will get over it. Maybe when he is here a couple more years you will mellow? But your dream of having some stud coach come in here and turn this into a consistent to 20 team is just that, a dream. We seemingly can’t, or won’t compete in NIL money making recruiting very difficult. Just selling recruits on the university, team, coach and area won’t cut it. In the words of the ever venerable Randy Moss, "straight cash homey"!
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It seems people want to assume that we hired Ben because he was legitimately the best candidate available and we could not have done any better. There is no way this was true at the time. He was an assistant on a staff where the head coach was fired before taking this job. I don't know if that can be stated enough. How many assistant coaches on a failed staff immediately take a promotion to head coach when that assistant had no head coaching experience and no real track record of winning? Ben literally has to be one in a million in that vein. I hope he succeeds because I want the Gophers to win, but he hasn't really shown that he can compete in the B1G long term. It's the end of the year and we are down to 6 playable guys again, very similar to the issue Pitino always had. No slight on Ben, some of the best coaches in the country are in this conference. Do we think he will be able to crack the ranks eventually? Will he ever be able to win a conference title? That should be the measuring stick. This year has been much more fun, but if this is the pinnacle of success under Ben Johnson, we need to move on quickly. The stance that this is the best option because we are Minnesota is really weird. PJ was one of the hottest coaching prospects in college football and Coyle got him. I don't understand how the options are Ben Johnson or "x coach we need to pay 5 million/year" with no in between. The team has outperformed expectations yes, but the expectations couldn't have been lower based on the prior 2 seasons. Will he be able to meet raised expectations next season? We know he will be back so hopefully he will continue to prove the doubters wrong next year. Myself included. It will be make or break to many next season so I hope Ben thrives under the pressure. Go Gophers!
 
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Bob_Loblaw said:
You've completely lost it.

A. Where did I campaign for Ben to be fired? I was mocking the idiotic takes on this site but I 100% think Ben has earned a 4th season.

B. No one was campaigning for Clem to be fired in year 3, he went to the Sweet 16. That idiotic argument of yours (comparing Ben to Clem) ended in Year 3.

C. Crittenden was a walk on and I realize all coaches have misses. Most coaches don't choose players they absolutely know (or should know) are misses.

D. We only play 6-7 guys, he clearly has WAY more misses than ole Clem.
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He always fails to mention Clem's credentials prior to taking the Gopher job. He was already very accomplished in the world of basketball and proven he can win leading a smaller school. Apples to oranges comparing to Ben.
 

GopherBlood777 said:
It seems people want to assume that we hired Ben because he was legitimately the best candidate available and we could not have done any better.
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Boy, there's no end to you pointing at fictitious target groups and making shit up. You can always find some idiot around here who will say something crazy but that doesn't mean it's a widely held belief.
 

TwistingMyMelon said:
Boy, there's no end to you pointing at fictitious target groups and making shit up. You can always find some idiot around here who will say something crazy but that doesn't mean it's a widely held belief.
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"But your dream of having some stud coach come in here and turn this into a consistent to 20 team is just that, a dream. " This was literally in the post I was replying to. Also have seen many argue in the past that financially this was our only option because the U is cheap, or "no one else" would come here because it's Minnesota so we had to get a local guy with little experience. You have been posting here for less than a year. There have been 3 years of arguments surrounding the hire. Are you willing to sort through 3 years of threads to confirm your accusation, or is it just easier to assume I'm saying things in bad faith?
 



Bob_Loblaw said:
I don't blame Ben for not playing JOJ. I'm in that camp that I wouldn't play him until he figures it out. However, I do blame Ben for bringing in someone like Jack Wilson who, by every metric available to everyone, has no business playing Big 10 basketball. He is a signing like Ogele.

For me, he was short about 2 guards. We have 1 injury and we literally only have three playable players for three spots.
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Using scholarship #13 for a walk-on or a Jack Wilson, fine. Using #10, AND 11 AND 12 on players who almost never play meaningful minutes? Not fine.
 

EasyThere Pilgrim said:
Would you want a scenario where Garcia & Christie dominate and carry the team through the NIT ? Really break out and have scouts taking extra notice?

Me...my #1 hope by far is that everyone returns.
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It seems like them suffering moderate but not devastating injuries is what we should be hoping for, right? :rolleyes:
 

"PJ was one of the hottest coaching prospects in college football and Coyle got him."
And really how has that worked out? Seven years, and how many first place finishes in the ever competitive West? He can’t even win HALF a conference. But I imagine he does get all his oil changes for free? That said there are worse coaches than PJ, and there are better ones.
The week the U announced Clem was coming here, I ran into a guy from Kentucky and the hiring came up. We were both ecstatic about it, for different reasons. The folks in KY, by his telling were very happy we took him off their hands. And in the end, we were both proven half right, and half wrong.
There could have been worse choices than Johnson, and better ones probably. But around here the really really good ones, seem to leave for greener pastures. Anyway, this all may end up a moot debate, if they don’t straighten out the pay for play issue in collegiate sports. The haves, vs the have nots difference will only magnify itself. And we simply are never going to be a have, if it goes that way!
 

Gopheritnow said:
"PJ was one of the hottest coaching prospects in college football and Coyle got him."
And really how has that worked out? Seven years, and how many first place finishes in the ever competitive West? He can’t even win HALF a conference. But I imagine he does get all his oil changes for free? That said there are worse coaches than PJ, and there are better ones.
The week the U announced Clem was coming here, I ran into a guy from Kentucky and the hiring came up. We were both ecstatic about it, for different reasons. The folks in KY, by his telling were very happy we took him off their hands. And in the end, we were both proven half right, and half wrong.
There could have been worse choices than Johnson, and better ones probably. But around here the really really good ones, seem to leave for greener pastures. Anyway, this all may end up a moot debate, if they don’t straighten out the pay for play issue in collegiate sports. The haves, vs the have nots difference will only magnify itself. And we simply are never going to be a have, if it goes that way!
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PJ finished a season as the 10th ranked team in the country. That was the best season of Gopher football in my lifetime. If it doesn't work out in the end, not many will argue it was a bad hire when it happened, and you can't dispute he reached a higher plateau of success than the previous several coaching staffs. If Ben Johnson ever closes the year with the 10th ranked team in the country, I will be happy to give him his due respect. Right now he is 0-14? against ranked opponents and hasn't qualified for a post season tournament. If he reaches the sweet 16 next year then I believe that justifies his hire to that point. That level of success would be worth 3 seasons of "suck" in my opinion.
 



Can we get back to the thread topic: Jack Wilson?

I still play him over Bakary Konate if that was the choice. And it's not close. Konate may be the worst starting B10 center the past 50 years
 



LesBolstad said:
Can we get back to the thread topic: Jack Wilson?

I still play him over Bakary Konate if that was the choice. And it's not close. Konate may be the worst starting B10 center the past 50 years
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Lol Konate would destroy Jack Wilson on the basketball court. Konate was a rotation player on a 5 seed in the NCAA tournament. Jack Wilson has 15 career points.
 

GopherBlood777 said:
"But your dream of having some stud coach come in here and turn this into a consistent to 20 team is just that, a dream. " This was literally in the post I was replying to. Also have seen many argue in the past that financially this was our only option because the U is cheap, or "no one else" would come here because it's Minnesota so we had to get a local guy with little experience. You have been posting here for less than a year. There have been 3 years of arguments surrounding the hire. Are you willing to sort through 3 years of threads to confirm your accusation, or is it just easier to assume I'm saying things in bad faith?
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However long I've posted here (and it's longer than you think), I didn't have to be actively posting to read the posts on this site. I actually read others' posts and have a pretty good memory of many of them.

The quote you highlighted simply doesn't say that "Ben Johnson was the best coach we could get." If you think that, then you have problems interpreting nuance in written language. A "stud coach" implies someone who is well-known, has an extensive history of accomplishment, and is likely pretty expensive. I agree that we wouldn't be too likely to get someone like that mainly because we haven't shown the willingness to pay that level of compensation since Tubby left. I'm not sure of all of the reasons why Ben was hired but I'm pretty sure we could have done better than someone who had never been a head coach and I'm not sure why anyone would think that.
 

Gopheritnow said:
The week the U announced Clem was coming here, I ran into a guy from Kentucky and the hiring came up. We were both ecstatic about it, for different reasons. The folks in KY, by his telling were very happy we took him off their hands.
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I think you may be talking about Tubby. I think KY fans were dissatisfied with Tubby but they have very high expectations. Clem coached at Western Kentucky (he also played there) prior to coming here and he did fairly well although he did have 3 mediocre years in a row before his final very good season (23-8 in 1985-86).
 

TwistingMyMelon said:
However long I've posted here (and it's longer than you think), I didn't have to be actively posting to read the posts on this site. I actually read others' posts and have a pretty good memory of many of them.

The quote you highlighted simply doesn't say that "Ben Johnson was the best coach we could get." If you think that, then you have problems interpreting nuance in written language. A "stud coach" implies someone who is well-known, has an extensive history of accomplishment, and is likely pretty expensive. I agree that we wouldn't be too likely to get someone like that mainly because we haven't shown the willingness to pay that level of compensation since Tubby left. I'm not sure of all of the reasons why Ben was hired but I'm pretty sure we could have done better than someone who had never been a head coach and I'm not sure why anyone would think that.
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My point exactly. The argument is hire "stud" coach (which is apparently not possible) or Ben Johnson. Therefore Ben Johnson was best choice. This same argument has been stated before by others, not just one crazy poster. It's not a great argument, we agree on that. Not sure why you are upset with me. Also, moniker prior to September 2023?
 



I thought Jack Wilson was an enforcer type. You don't sign him for double-doubles. You sign him for double-trouble.
 

On the debate over keep, fire, or extend Johnson, there are lots of good facts critics point to.

True: He had no head coaching experience. Reduce value for that.

Yet here is the payoff. Ben's saving grace is his recruiting. That saved his job. HIS recruits and transfer portal guys are doing OK. Christie is just a freshman. Recruiting is a process.

How is that doing? Who came in.

Who comes next season?
 

howeda7 said:
Using scholarship #13 for a walk-on or a Jack Wilson, fine. Using #10, AND 11 AND 12 on players who almost never play meaningful minutes? Not fine.
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Which Big Ten teams play their 10, 11, 12 guys meaningful minutes?
 

Gopheritnow said:
"PJ was one of the hottest coaching prospects in college football and Coyle got him."
And really how has that worked out? Seven years, and how many first place finishes in the ever competitive West? He can’t even win HALF a conference. But I imagine he does get all his oil changes for free? That said there are worse coaches than PJ, and there are better ones.
The week the U announced Clem was coming here, I ran into a guy from Kentucky and the hiring came up. We were both ecstatic about it, for different reasons. The folks in KY, by his telling were very happy we took him off their hands. And in the end, we were both proven half right, and half wrong.
There could have been worse choices than Johnson, and better ones probably. But around here the really really good ones, seem to leave for greener pastures. Anyway, this all may end up a moot debate, if they don’t straighten out the pay for play issue in collegiate sports. The haves, vs the have nots difference will only magnify itself. And we simply are never going to be a have, if it goes that way!
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You’re confusing Clem and Tubby. Which kinda rules but also invalidates everything you’re saying.
 

SHGopher said:
On the debate over keep, fire, or extend Johnson, there are lots of good facts critics point to.

True: He had no head coaching experience. Reduce value for that.

Yet here is the payoff. Ben's saving grace is his recruiting. That saved his job. HIS recruits and transfer portal guys are doing OK. Christie is just a freshman. Recruiting is a process.

How is that doing? Who came in.

Who comes next season?
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Ben has got some nice players. But his saving grace of recruiting has two last place finishes and a middle of the conference finish…not sure your point is as strong as you think.

Now if he keeps it together (he hasn’t proven he can retain talent…) and guys improve and he adds more? They could be a good/very good team next year.

But he lost all of the previous teams guy (besides Ihnen), he lost Battle…just unlikely he keeps the core. But I’m he keeps the few guys they NEED to be successful and supplements them with portal additions and incoming freshman.
 


UpAndUnder43 said:
Ben has got some nice players. But his saving grace of recruiting has two last place finishes and a middle of the conference finish…not sure your point is as strong as you think.

Now if he keeps it together (he hasn’t proven he can retain talent…) and guys improve and he adds more? They could be a good/very good team next year.

But he lost all of the previous teams guy (besides Ihnen), he lost Battle…just unlikely he keeps the core. But I’m he keeps the few guys they NEED to be successful and supplements them with portal additions and incoming freshman.
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All that is good.

With Battle leaving, I have a slightly different take than others. First, let's assume you can't have it all. You can have this or you can have that. Tradeoffs.

In exchange for Ohio State luring Battle, Minnesota brought in Hawkins and Mitchell. Good.

Everyone was moaning last season that guards was a disaster. Battle was at a glut position.

CBJ got it done. Yet now people are moaning they need more depth at guard.

#10 PG in the nation is coming in.

plus current players like Christie a year older.

it is true they have not won a big game, no tournament.

Looks like a start up rising up.

247sports.com

Isaac Asuma, Cherry Secondary , Point Guard

Isaac Asuma is a 6-2, 190-pound Point Guard from Iron, MN.
247sports.com 247sports.com
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Sure, you'd have to make an argument like that if you were hell bent on showing that Wilson was a good signing. It's completely a wild guess from everyone.

He is not a Big 10 quality basketball player. He has the worst advanced stats of any player I've ever seen (no hyperbole), so I cannot imagine how that would have helped Payne improve at basketball.
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I guess it's possible that Wilson could have helped Payne in practice just by virtue of being a large, immovable object thereby forcing Payne to develop more footwork and mobility inside (he's is better at that this season). I agree with you that any benefits from Jack didn't extend to actual games where he had to face better competition.
 

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