It’s Time: Bring the Payne



Pharrel Payne needs to start.

He is our best player. I’d argue he’s the best true post player in the Big Ten not named Zach Edey.

I think Ben finally pulls the trigger and we’ll see it Monday night.

I agree. Think the best starting 5 is probably Hawkins, Christie, JOJ, Garcia and PP.
 


Kind of want Carrington back in the starting lineup, but can't disagree with you.

Yeah, I agree because he's playing well, but I think him paired with Mitchell(assuming he hits his groove again) compliment each other better. I think Carrington is playing starter quality ball since he came back, so I wouldn't be upset if Christie went back to the bench to provide a scoring spark.
 



Yeah, I agree because he's playing well, but I think him paired with Mitchell(assuming he hits his groove again) compliment each other better. I think Carrington is playing starter quality ball since he came back, so I wouldn't be upset if Christie went back to the bench to provide a scoring spark.
Would probably go Carrington over JOJ tbh. I like 3 guards starting still. Mitchell first backup at guard and JOJ at forward. Either way, some kind of adjustment is needed to avoid getting in a hole early.
 





I can't even believe this is even a question, much less such a matter of daft stubbornness on the part of the coach.
The issue is 3 out of the 4 most efficient players are most comfortable at the 4 or 5. I’d struggle to take JOJ out of the starting lineup because he has been one of the only ones to score buckets early.

My flavor of the day starting lineup is:
Hawkins - Carrington - JOJ - Garcia - Payne

Hawkins, Garcia and Payne are the no brainers, the other 2 I could be convinced of.
 

Pharrel Payne needs to start.

He is our best player. I’d argue he’s the best true post player in the Big Ten not named Zach Edey.

I think Ben finally pulls the trigger and we’ll see it Monday night.
I would hope so. He is so intimidating on the defensive end and he gives the team a whole different look athletically.
 

Alright Stocker, waiting for you to bring the heat on this troll! 😎

I've said that Payne is one of the best players on the team. Coaching staff isn't starting him for a reason. I don't know why......and I'm not going to act like I do.
 

Pharrel Payne needs to start.

He is our best player. I’d argue he’s the best true post player in the Big Ten not named Zach Edey.

I think Ben finally pulls the trigger and we’ll see it Monday night.

+o4
 



The issue is 3 out of the 4 most efficient players are most comfortable at the 4 or 5. I’d struggle to take JOJ out of the starting lineup because he has been one of the only ones to score buckets early.

My flavor of the day starting lineup is:
Hawkins - Carrington - JOJ - Garcia - Payne

Hawkins, Garcia and Payne are the no brainers, the other 2 I could be convinced of.
I don’t get the Garcia love. He’s been turning the ball over, not shooting well, and not defending well. I think they are much better defensively when he’s not on the floor, and offensively they share the ball better and the floor opens up when he’s not in there.
 

it is irrelevant who the 5 starters are. What is relevant is who plays the most minutes, match ups and who is hot. Payne played more minutes than 4 of the 5 starters last night. Payne on the floor to start the game last night would not have stopped Indiana from making 2 (basically) uncontested 3's to start the game putting us in a hole we never dug out of. No matter who is on the floor the gophers collectively ALWAYS have to play tough defense. They didn't do that to start the game last night. If Payne starts, he would rarely get more than the 30 minutes he got last night because of fouls, energy, etc...
 

it is irrelevant who the 5 starters are. What is relevant is who plays the most minutes, match ups and who is hot. Payne played more minutes than 4 of the 5 starters last night. Payne on the floor to start the game last night would not have stopped Indiana from making 2 (basically) uncontested 3's to start the game putting us in a hole we never dug out of. No matter who is on the floor the gophers collectively ALWAYS have to play tough defense. They didn't do that to start the game last night. If Payne starts, he would rarely get more than the 30 minutes he got last night because of fouls, energy, etc...
What is relevant is how you start the game. If you are lacking intensity and get behind at the start of the game- that's a big problem. Not having our best and most physical player on the floor at the start is not a good idea.
 

I don’t get the Garcia love. He’s been turning the ball over, not shooting well, and not defending well. I think they are much better defensively when he’s not on the floor, and offensively they share the ball better and the floor opens up when he’s not in there.
Correct. He's a ball stopper on offense and if he isn't scoring at a high rate, he hurts the flow of the offense. When he's on, he's really good and he attracts a lot of attention, but lately he hasn't been so good.
 

What is relevant is how you start the game. If you are lacking intensity and get behind at the start of the game- that's a big problem. Not having our best and most physical player on the floor at the start is not a good idea.
Exactly. I normally put way more stock in who closes a game rather than who starts it, but when your team starts slow almost every game, something needs to be altered.
 

it is irrelevant who the 5 starters are. What is relevant is who plays the most minutes, match ups and who is hot. Payne played more minutes than 4 of the 5 starters last night. Payne on the floor to start the game last night would not have stopped Indiana from making 2 (basically) uncontested 3's to start the game putting us in a hole we never dug out of. No matter who is on the floor the gophers collectively ALWAYS have to play tough defense. They didn't do that to start the game last night. If Payne starts, he would rarely get more than the 30 minutes he got last night because of fouls, energy, etc...
Normally I’d agree, but they’ve started every B1G game spotting the other team 10 points early. They need to mix it up.
 

I don't think Payne would have helped the initial 9-0 run but the problem was we tried to get into a 3pt contest when we should always start working inside out. That isn't possible without PP, especially with Garcia playing so poorly.
 

I’d like to see Payne at the beginning of the games also because Garcia seems to be getting bullied a little bit since BIG games have started.
Payne and Ola-Joseph can handle the physicality. Carrington is getting better at it. Christie isn’t there. Anxious to see how they respond against Iowa.
 

it is irrelevant who the 5 starters are. What is relevant is who plays the most minutes, match ups and who is hot. Payne played more minutes than 4 of the 5 starters last night. Payne on the floor to start the game last night would not have stopped Indiana from making 2 (basically) uncontested 3's to start the game putting us in a hole we never dug out of. No matter who is on the floor the gophers collectively ALWAYS have to play tough defense. They didn't do that to start the game last night. If Payne starts, he would rarely get more than the 30 minutes he got last night because of fouls, energy, etc...
Totally disagree 2 of our losses we have been down 11-2 and 10-1 before Payne comes in. Last night it was evident his presence was needed from the start. Indiana is huge physically. Getting down 10-1 on the road is a terrible idea. Why don’t you start your best post defender and have him finish the game.

Ihnens minutes need to be zero. He cannot defend in the big ten it is glaring. His offense has been worse. Let this sink in he has played 44 minutes in the big ten and scored 1 point I repeat 1 point. He has 7 rebounds 0 assists. He has not been nor ever will be close to a big ten player.

Fox has been marginally more productive but his energy and ability to defend the post are much more valuable. 32 minutes 6 pts 3 rebounds.
 

I can't believe some people's logic. You can't drink all day if you don't start in the morning, and it's hard to play your top players enough minutes if they're not on the floor for several minutes starting each half.
 

I can't believe some people's logic. You can't drink all day if you don't start in the morning, and it's hard to play your top players enough minutes if they're not on the floor for several minutes starting each half.
Starting our best defensive five may help alleviate the early hemorrhaging. Always time to bring in offensive spark as needed. I’d say more, but gotta refill my drink.
 


I’d like to see Payne at the beginning of the games also because Garcia seems to be getting bullied a little bit since BIG games have started.
Payne and Ola-Joseph can handle the physicality. Carrington is getting better at it. Christie isn’t there. Anxious to see how they respond against Iowa.
Exactly. Garcia has shown obvious issues on both ends of the court

Garcia does not do well in a crowd like Payne or, most of the time, JOJ as he lacks the overall body strength and explosion. He does best in iso and those chances seem limited recently.

We have all expected Garcia to be the bell cow and someone we can depend on to score not just the last 5 minutes of the game. I have always felt he is an average defender at best and just OK on the glass. Doesn't get the tough rebounds. So he needs to score 16-18ppg to be an asset.

Injuries have held him back but somehow he needs to up his game to be our #1 guy.
 

Totally disagree 2 of our losses we have been down 11-2 and 10-1 before Payne comes in. Last night it was evident his presence was needed from the start. Indiana is huge physically. Getting down 10-1 on the road is a terrible idea. Why don’t you start your best post defender and have him finish the game.

Ihnens minutes need to be zero. He cannot defend in the big ten it is glaring. His offense has been worse. Let this sink in he has played 44 minutes in the big ten and scored 1 point I repeat 1 point. He has 7 rebounds 0 assists. He has not been nor ever will be close to a big ten player.

Fox has been marginally more productive but his energy and ability to defend the post are much more valuable. 32 minutes 6 pts 3 rebounds.
Actually 3 of our losses- San Fran, OSU and Indiana all started badly.
 

Garcia is too slow to be a top tier B1G player. He's ok when left alone for a wide open three, but that only happens a couple of times a game.

Payne should take Garcia's place in the starting lineup.
 

Pharrel Payne needs to start.

He is our best player. I’d argue he’s the best true post player in the Big Ten not named Zach Edey.

I think Ben finally pulls the trigger and we’ll see it Monday night.
Maybe so but then we’d still have to figure out how to feed him in the post. So far we aren’t very good at that.
 

Maybe so but then we’d still have to figure out how to feed him in the post. So far we aren’t very good at that.
Getting Payne good post feeds is a missing ingredient to this team so far, and Payne showed what a force he could be last night. Observations about that and other observations:
  • Garcia struggled again to feed Payne when he sealed his defender (which he does better than just about anybody). Not only did he overthrow passes to Payne, on a couple of possessions he neglected to pass it to Payne when he had great post position.
  • When Payne does get the ball in the post, other players need to do a better job of spacing and getting to spots, so when the double team comes, Payne has better passing options.
  • God, I wish Payne could hit the 15 foot jumper-he hit one in one of the first games of the year, and I think tried it one other time and missed pretty badly. If he could add this element to his game he would be unstoppable-although his free throw shooting indicates this may be a challenge
  • If Payne can improve his ability to limit fouls and increase his fitness, then he can play 32-35 minutes a game, because this team is SO much better with him on the court.
  • This team has the ability to beat a team like Indiana, but having your guard trio shoot 4 for 28, and shooting 3 for 20 on 3's won't allow that.
 




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