Is the BigTEN still the best?

Donate To GopherHole
W

Wet_Blanket_Guy

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 13, 2019
Messages
1,529
Reaction score
1,241
Points
113
Many posters on this forum argue the Big10 is the best basketball conference in the land, here is some of the data (KenPom and Net Rankings):

I'll list the Average KenPom & Net of the conference, KenPom and Net of the top 5 teams in the conference, and KenPom and Net of the bottom 3 teams of the conference (edited the post to add in average conference adjusted defensive and offensive efficiency (utilizing KenPom ratings):

AAC:
Conference Averages: KenPom 129.5 | Net 144.5
Conference Averages: Defensive Efficiency 107.82 | Offensive Efficiency 131.45
Top 5 Average: KenPom 41 | Net 49
Bottom 3 Average: KenPom 222.5 | Net 252
Top 5 teams: Houston, Memphis, Cincinnati, UCF, Tulane *these are based on the KenPom top 5 highest in the conference as of 2/3/2023)

A10:
Conference Averages: KenPom 157.5 | Net 171.5
Conference Averages: Defensive Efficiency 146.13 | Offensive Efficiency 178.13
Top 5 Average: KenPom 98 | Net 101
Bottom 3 Average: KenPom 253 | Net 253
Top 5 teams: Dayton, VCU, Saint Louis, Duquesne, George Mason, Fordham

ACC:
Conference Averages: KenPom 153.5 | Net 144.5
Conference Averages: Defensive Efficiency 119.93 | Offensive Efficiency 94.73
Top 5 Average: KenPom 29 | Net 49
Bottom 3 Average: KenPom 231 | Net 252
Top 5 teams: Virginia, Duke, UNC, Miami, NC State

BigTEN:
Conference Averages: KenPom 101.5 | Net 113
Conference Averages: Defensive Efficiency 53.14 | Offensive Efficiency 78.79
Top 5 Average: KenPom 16 | Net 16.5
Bottom 3 Average: KenPom 132.5 | Net 147
Top 5 teams: Purdue, Rutgers, Indiana, Illinois, Maryland

Big 12:
Conference Averages: KenPom 35.5 | Net 35.5
Conference Averages: Defensive Efficiency 33.50 | Offensive Efficiency 43.30
Top 5 Average: KenPom 13.5 | Net 11.5
Bottom 3 Average: KenPom 46.5 | Net 51.5
Top 5 teams: Kansas, Texas, Baylor, TCU, West Virginia

Big East:
Conference Averages: KenPom 112.5 | Net 125
Conference Averages: Defensive Efficiency 89 | Offensive Efficiency 71.91
Top 5 Average: KenPom 16.5 | Net 21.5
Bottom 3 Average: KenPom 165 | Net 177
Top 5 teams: UCONN, Marquette, Creighton, Xavier, Providence *for how bad everyone rips on georgetown they have a kenpom of 219 and Gophers are 200

Pac 12:
Conference Averages: KenPom 127.5 | Net 149
Conference Averages: Defensive Efficiency 71.25 | Offensive Efficiency 110.25
Top 5 Average: KenPom 30 | Net 32
Bottom 3 Average: KenPom 179 | Net 208
Top 5 teams: UCLA, Arizona, USC, Utah, Oregon

SEC:
Conference Averages: KenPom 128 | Net 143
Conference Averages: Defensive Efficiency 79.07 | Offensive Efficiency 91.07
Top 5 Average: KenPom 18 | Net 16.5
Bottom 3 Average: KenPom 180 | Net 201.5
Top 5 teams: Tennessee, Alabama, Arkansas, Auburn, Kentucky

WCC:
Conference Averages: KenPom 117.5 | Net 118.5
Conference Averages: Defensive Efficiency 151 | Offensive Efficiency 91.6
Top 5 Average: KenPom 51.5 | Net 50.5
Bottom 3 Average: KenPom 211 | Net 217
Top 5 teams: Saint Mary's, Gonzaga, BYU, Loyola Marymount, Santa Clara, San Francisco

My first takeaway is that KenPom and these rankings sites are dramatically over valuing the B10. You look at some of the KenPom rankings of these teams (see below):
- Indiana 21 and their NET is 22 *when they came to the Barn did you think they were the that great outside of TJD?
-Ohio State 32 and their NET is 36 *OSU since the flip to calendar year 2023 is 2-8
-Wisconsin 65 and their NET is 68 *Wisconsin since the flip to calendar year 2023 is 3-8
-Maryland...Let's dig deeper at their 15-7 record: They have bet: Nebraska (bad), (indiana - as we know not a lot of talent outside of TJD), Badgers (terrible), Michigan (ok), Ohio State (bad), *Illinois and Miami are good wins though*, but they have lots of wins against bad teams - they are not good

Second, it is clear that the B12 is by far the best conference in college basketball...it isn't even worth a discussion.

But then it's a battle for 2nd best, and honestly, it's a coinflip between the Big East, SEC, and the Big 10. I give the nod to the SEC and the Big East, and probably the BE. Regarding the B10 you have to factor in how they historically flop in the NCAA tourny, while the BigEast does very well (Villanova and UConn and even Providence of late)...

Just some data points and some food for thought.

Had to do it, but the Gophers would almost have the worst KenPom in the WCC, barely edging out Pacific and San Diego.
 
Last edited:

Big12 is clearly the best league this year.

Big10 is second best though due to depth. I would take the BE top 5 against any other conference(besides big 12) top 5 but they dont have the depth.

SEC I put ahead of BE as well because of how strong a few at the top are and having more options in the middle.

ACC and Pac12 clearly at the bottom.
 

It really depends on the metric you’re using to measure.

What is better a conference with 12 top 100 teams and no national title contenders or a conference with 4-5 top 100 teams but 2 national title contenders
 

MUgopher32 said:
Big12 is clearly the best league this year.

Big10 is second best though due to depth. I would take the BE top 5 against any other conference(besides big 12) top 5 but they dont have the depth.

SEC I put ahead of BE as well because of how strong a few at the top are and having more options in the middle.

ACC and Pac12 clearly at the bottom.
Click to expand...
I have to edit my OP, forgot SEC
 

MUgopher32 said:
Big12 is clearly the best league this year.

Big10 is second best though due to depth. I would take the BE top 5 against any other conference(besides big 12) top 5 but they dont have the depth.

SEC I put ahead of BE as well because of how strong a few at the top are and having more options in the middle.

ACC and Pac12 clearly at the bottom.
Click to expand...
I think Big 12 easy.

Then if you look at the top 4 of each of these groups:

BigTEN: Purdue, Rutgers, Indiana, Illinois
BigEast: UCONN, Marquette, Creighton, Xavier
SEC: Tennessee, Alabama, Arkansas, Auburn
Pac 12: UCLA, Arizona, USC, Utah

I think the BigTEN is 3rd on that list.
 


Good post here. Very good content. Big12 is best this year.

I did find one part of your post amusing.....you ask the question "Is the BigTen still the best?" and then proceed to provide a very long post of stats and metrics. However, towards the end of your post you state, "it is clear that the B12 is by far the best conference in college basketball...it isn't even worth a discussion".

Shut down the thread, I guess. 🤷‍♂️
 

Still the best?

Nobody from the Big Ten has won the NCAA Title in nearly a quarter of a century and the conference rarely has any players in the Top 50 of NBA scorers.

I'd like to see the computers model that.
 

That is what the NCAA tournament is all about.
The best teams in the conferences mentioned will play.
By the sweet 16 games the cream will have risen to the top no matter what the analytics say.
 

NateDawgUM said:
Still the best?

Nobody from the Big Ten has won the NCAA Title in nearly a quarter of a century and the conference rarely has any players in the Top 50 of NBA scorers.

I'd like to see the computers model that.
Click to expand...
Not sure being top 50 in scoring in the nba is indicative of a conferences current strength. Some guys on that list have been in the NBA longer than current college players have been alive.
 



Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
Many posters on this forum argue the Big10 is the best basketball conference in the land, here is some of the data (KenPom and Net Rankings):

I'll list the Average KenPom & Net of the conference, KenPom and Net of the top 5 teams in the conference, and KenPom and Net of the bottom 3 teams of the conference (edited the post to add in average conference adjusted defensive and offensive efficiency (utilizing KenPom ratings):

AAC:
Conference Averages: KenPom 129.5 | Net 144.5
Conference Averages: Defensive Efficiency 107.82 | Offensive Efficiency 131.45
Top 5 Average: KenPom 41 | Net 49
Bottom 3 Average: KenPom 222.5 | Net 252
Top 5 teams: Houston, Memphis, Cincinnati, UCF, Tulane *these are based on the KenPom top 5 highest in the conference as of 2/3/2023)

A10:
Conference Averages: KenPom 157.5 | Net 171.5
Conference Averages: Defensive Efficiency 146.13 | Offensive Efficiency 178.13
Top 5 Average: KenPom 98 | Net 101
Bottom 3 Average: KenPom 253 | Net 253
Top 5 teams: Dayton, VCU, Saint Louis, Duquesne, George Mason, Fordham

ACC:
Conference Averages: KenPom 153.5 | Net 144.5
Conference Averages: Defensive Efficiency 119.93 | Offensive Efficiency 94.73
Top 5 Average: KenPom 29 | Net 49
Bottom 3 Average: KenPom 231 | Net 252
Top 5 teams: Virginia, Duke, UNC, Miami, NC State

BigTEN:
Conference Averages: KenPom 101.5 | Net 113
Conference Averages: Defensive Efficiency 53.14 | Offensive Efficiency 78.79
Top 5 Average: KenPom 16 | Net 16.5
Bottom 3 Average: KenPom 132.5 | Net 147
Top 5 teams: Purdue, Rutgers, Indiana, Illinois, Maryland

Big 12:
Conference Averages: KenPom 35.5 | Net 35.5
Conference Averages: Defensive Efficiency 33.50 | Offensive Efficiency 43.30
Top 5 Average: KenPom 13.5 | Net 11.5
Bottom 3 Average: KenPom 46.5 | Net 51.5
Top 5 teams: Kansas, Texas, Baylor, TCU, West Virginia

Big East:
Conference Averages: KenPom 112.5 | Net 125
Conference Averages: Defensive Efficiency 89 | Offensive Efficiency 71.91
Top 5 Average: KenPom 16.5 | Net 21.5
Bottom 3 Average: KenPom 165 | Net 177
Top 5 teams: UCONN, Marquette, Creighton, Xavier, Providence *for how bad everyone rips on georgetown they have a kenpom of 219 and Gophers are 200

Pac 12:
Conference Averages: KenPom 127.5 | Net 149
Conference Averages: Defensive Efficiency 71.25 | Offensive Efficiency 110.25
Top 5 Average: KenPom 30 | Net 32
Bottom 3 Average: KenPom 179 | Net 208
Top 5 teams: UCLA, Arizona, USC, Utah, Oregon

SEC:
Conference Averages: KenPom 128 | Net 143
Conference Averages: Defensive Efficiency 79.07 | Offensive Efficiency 91.07
Top 5 Average: KenPom 18 | Net 16.5
Bottom 3 Average: KenPom 180 | Net 201.5
Top 5 teams: Tennessee, Alabama, Arkansas, Auburn, Kentucky

WCC:
Conference Averages: KenPom 117.5 | Net 118.5
Conference Averages: Defensive Efficiency 151 | Offensive Efficiency 91.6
Top 5 Average: KenPom 51.5 | Net 50.5
Bottom 3 Average: KenPom 211 | Net 217
Top 5 teams: Saint Mary's, Gonzaga, BYU, Loyola Marymount, Santa Clara, San Francisco

My first takeaway is that KenPom and these rankings sites are dramatically over valuing the B10. You look at some of the KenPom rankings of these teams (see below):
- Indiana 21 and their NET is 22 *when they came to the Barn did you think they were the that great outside of TJD?
-Ohio State 32 and their NET is 36 *OSU since the flip to calendar year 2023 is 2-8
-Wisconsin 65 and their NET is 68 *Wisconsin since the flip to calendar year 2023 is 3-8
-Maryland...Let's dig deeper at their 15-7 record: They have bet: Nebraska (bad), (indiana - as we know not a lot of talent outside of TJD), Badgers (terrible), Michigan (ok), Ohio State (bad), *Illinois and Miami are good wins though*, but they have lots of wins against bad teams - they are not good

Second, it is clear that the B12 is by far the best conference in college basketball...it isn't even worth a discussion.

But then it's a battle for 2nd best, and honestly, it's a coinflip between the Big East, SEC, and the Big 10. I give the nod to the SEC and the Big East, and probably the BE. Regarding the B10 you have to factor in how they historically flop in the NCAA tourny, while the BigEast does very well (Villanova and UConn and even Providence of late)...

Just some data points and some food for thought.

Had to do it, but the Gophers would almost have the worst KenPom in the WCC, barely edging out Pacific and San Diego.
Click to expand...

When I was young, I thought this topic was pretty interesting. Now that I'm older, I think it's rather pointless. The relative strengths of conferences vary from year to year but the top ones are fairly stable in being the leaders. I think it's foolish to assign wide swings in NCAA tournament invites based on year-to-year variation on quantitative indexes. Every time the NCAA does that, it bites them in the ass. We've seen this multiple times with the Big Ten and also with the ACC. The Big Ten wasn't good enough to get 9 invites in each of the past two seasons nor bad enough in 2018 to get only four. It seems to me that the Big Ten and the ACC frequently are overrated while the SEC and PAC 12 frequently are underrated these days.
 

UpAndUnder43 said:
Not sure being top 50 in scoring in the nba is indicative of a conferences current strength. Some guys on that list have been in the NBA longer than current college players have been alive.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure the last Big Ten player to be named First Team All NBA was Chris Webber in 2001 and before him it was Magic Johnson.

ACC: Jayson Tatum, 2022
Big 12: Kevin Durant 2018
SEC: Devin Booker 2022
Pac 12: James Harden 2020

It's not pretty at all.
 

NateDawgUM said:
Pretty sure the last Big Ten player to be named First Team All NBA was Chris Webber in 2001 and before him it was Magic Johnson.

ACC: Jayson Tatum, 2022
Big 12: Kevin Durant 2018
SEC: Devin Booker 2022
Pac 12: James Harden 2020

It's not pretty at all.
Click to expand...
This is irrelevant to the current strongest conference. College is an entirely different game.
 




NateDawgUM said:
Still the best?

Nobody from the Big Ten has won the NCAA Title in nearly a quarter of a century and the conference rarely has any players in the Top 50 of NBA scorers.

I'd like to see the computers model that.
Click to expand...
I think the big 12 is pushing the big 10 for the deepest

Big ten has been the deepest for 15 years

I don’t know how you judge best
 

NateDawgUM said:
One national title since 1989.
Click to expand...
That might matter. But it’s this season being discussed. If you know the eventual champion please tell me. I’d like to bet on it.

Scoring in the nba has no part in this conversation. You immediately changed your argument when called on it. Luka Garza was a dominant dominant college player. That fact doesn’t change when he is an end of rotation NBAer. Does it?
 

The B1G hasn't been the best ever since Izzo won his last National championship. The B1G has always been the roughest conference to play in. It's the closest thing to football you'll find in basketball. The beating kids take playing in the B1G is just brutal.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom