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I love Duke as well. Dad went to Duke so I'm allowed to root for them.
 

Pewter - if I may ask, what is your affiliation with Duke? Are you an alum or family of an alum?

I've always wondered when reading your "defend Duke at all cost" posts.
 

Multiple members of my immediate family are alumni of Duke but my fandom didn't start until I was a 15 yo talking to Trajon Langdon. Lot's of connections to former players, visits to Cameron (never been to a Duke v UNC game though), etc.

I feel like I'm apart of the Duke basketball community, as weird as that might sound. In Maui 2 years ago, we got to rub elbows with the coaches and players for an entire week (Gerald Henderson took a liking to my wife). Going back to Maui in '11 when Duke returns. Every time I've been in Durham, I run into a player or coach. Travelled to NYC to watch them play. They were in Houston and that was awesome. It's a family thing, without a doubt. My parents, siblings, and in-laws all had a big party in Minnesota last night that I missed out on. Lots of happy people there at the end of the night.
 


No offense, but how did it feel to have the entire country rooting against you?
 


I've never really liked Duke, but man I loved watching Trajon Langdon play...
 

I was desperate for Butler to win last night...

...but I don't hate Duke, I envy them. :(:(:(
 



Congratulations Pewter. This was a gritty Duke team. Hard to say anything bad about this team (Vitale's cheerlreading, of course, is another matter). A well deserved championship. They basically won a couple road games (Baylor & Butler) on their way to the title. Your squad showed some serious toughness. Enjoy it.
 



People hate Duke ...

because they run a good program and graduate kids and their coach is a class act and hence they feel diminished in their own life. It's the same reason reality TV is so popular, because our society loves to see people fail so that it makes us all feel better. But, once they fail and fall to a certain level we then feel bad for them and want to give them that 2nd chance. I just wish people would admit this is why they hate Duke. I have no problem with that, but when people start bringing up the refs and coach k's sideline antics and Steve Wojo and all this other stuff it makes me laugh. I guess Duke is the Yankees of basketball according to Digger Phelps, you either love them or hate them. If Duke played the Gophers I would be pulling for Minnesota in a hearbeat, but when you grow up in the early 80's following Duke and meeting the coaches and players you do feel a bond. Not sure the point of this post. I guess the point is, hating Duke is fine just admit you want to see teh best fail like I do with the Yankees and the Lakers.
 



People that complain about Duke being on TV all of the time, i.e. overexposure, and use that as a reason to hate them are really hating themselves.

Colin Cowherd a couple of weeks ago thru out some of ESPN's college basketball ratings and Duke games consistently have some of the best. A ton of people watch because they want to see Duke lose is in fact those hating the overexposure are partially responsible for it. Keep hating (and watching) though as it allows me to watch almost every Duke game no matter where I am in the country. BTW, last night's ratings were 24% higher than last year and that's at the time of the tip-off, not the closing seconds of a close game. Duke's game against WV also easily demolished last year's 2nd final four game.

It's simple. People love to watch Duke. They may wish Duke loses but they still love to watch.
 

I like it when people tell me why I don't like Duke. Is it a crime to have a certain team not be your cup of tea? I actually like the Yankees, so what does that say?

I'm not a fan of Duke for one reason. That reason is motormouth Dick Vitale. His constant slobbering over the Duke program, as if it's the only program that does it the right way, has players go to class, etc., is beyond barf inducing. There are lots of programs that by most accounts do things the right way. To their credit, Duke is one of 'em. I'm just tired of the implication from the likes of Vitale that they're the only one.
 

SelectionSunday said:
Congratulations Pewter. This was a gritty Duke team. Hard to say anything bad about this team (Vitale's cheerlreading, of course, is another matter). A well deserved championship. They basically won a couple road games (Baylor & Butler) on their way to the title. Your squad showed some serious toughness. Enjoy it.
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As someone that loves all things Duke, I'm tired of Vitale's takes. It's the same thing over and over again. He needs to freshen what he says. I've been told he's exactly the same way off the camera as on it so it's just his personality and I can also tell everyone here he's one of the kindest, most generous people around according to those that know him but his whole Duke/ND Football/Yankees/Tim Tebow/UNC(don't forget that he loves UNC almost as much)/ACC/Coach K/Robert Montgomery Knight speak is tired and played. If you listen to him speak on TV or radio, undoubtedly he'll bring up one of these names into any and every conversation. He LOVES frontrunners, and that by itself isn't a bad thing but he can't go 1 minute without singing their praises and it gets old real fast.

However, I'll take someone like Dick Vitale every single day of the week over someone as small, vindictive, vile, and meanspirited as Gregg Doyel of CBSsports.com. I can't really dislike someone for having a positive demeanor. I can get tired his repetitive nature but not of his outlook on life. I can despise someone like Gregg Doyel though. He's the one that deserves our scorn. Vitale just needs someone to pull him aside and tell him to get new material.
 

SelectionSunday said:
I like it when people tell me why I don't like Duke. Is it a crime to have a certain team not be your cup of tea? I actually like the Yankees, so what does that say?

I'm not a fan of Duke for one reason. That reason is motormouth Dick Vitale. His constant slobbering over the Duke program, as if it's the only program that does it the right way, has players go to class, etc., is beyond barf inducing. There are lots of programs that by most accounts do things the right way. To their credit, Duke is one of 'em. I'm just tired of the implication from the likes of Vitale that they're the only one.
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Duke has everything for Vitale.

Winner? Check
ACC team? Check
Coach K? Check - Vitale has been in love with the man since Jim Valvano's death (those 2 were by his side in the final days of his life) and subsequent spots on the V Foundation for both.

The only thing missing is an Italian influence at Duke.

As for the "only Duke does it the right way" assertion...it's a vicious cycle that Vitale and others have gotten into with the Duke haters. It goes like this: Duke wins. People get tired of a winner. Vitale then asks over and over again why someone would hate a program that "does it the right way". This outrages others in that the perception is he (and other defenders) is implying they're the only ones, which adds to the hate, which Vitale then asks again why would someone hate a program that "does it the right way" and so on. You get the point. It's a recursive argument.
 

I don't hate Duke, but David is always more interesting than Goliath. It's ho-hum when Goliath wins. I have no problem with people who have some sort of affiliation with Duke, the only problem I have is the same problem I have with people who switch to whoever is currently on top. People who become fans of whatever team won the Super Bowl, etc.

Sure, I'd love it if the Gophers had the same success as Duke has had. But if that ever comes, I will have more respect for the Gopher fans who were Gopher fans all along.
 

One more thing about Duke (I feel like I can talk Duke on this board today given that they just won the NC. I talked alot of Duke basketball on this board a while back and many disliked it so I made a concerted effort to refrain from bringing them up and left it to mostly Gopher sports):

This was one of the most rewarding seasons I could ever imagine. Duke was never the frontrunner. In fact, I was pessimistic about Duke's chances heading into the season. My expectations were ACC champions and possible run to the Elite 8. Certainly not a Final 4 as I thought Duke's lack of backcourt depth and no true PG would be their undoing. This was all with an experienced team. Certainly not what I've been used to as a Duke fan. Starting 5 upperclassman should mean NC aspirations, not just ACC titles.

Add in that as a Duke fan, I had to endure 2 NC seasons over the past 4 from our hated rival, one of which was just last season. UNC started the year #4 in the preseason polls and shortly after the season began, Duke's supposed savior, Harrison Barnes, made the shocking decision to go to UNC. In November, UNC was at an all-time high and Duke close to an all-time low in terms of outlook.

Fast foward 5 months to today and holy cow have things changed. Duke just won the NC, is bringing in a very nice recruiting class (top pg in the class is Kyrie Irving and the super quick guard will fit perfectly into Duke's system) along with Seth Curry, who is legit like his brother from everything I've heard, while UNC lost in the title game of the NIT, struggled most of the year, their freshman really disappointed with the possible late season surge from Henson, and they still won't have a PG to run 'Ol Roy's offense next year as Larry Drew is probably transferring and Kendral Marshall is as slow as a slug and vastly overrated. If Singler returns, Duke will be preseason #1 next year. It's just an unbelieve turn in a Duke fan's outlook. Going from questioning the direction of the program to where we are today is very good feeling. Duke will always measure itself against UNC (and vice versa) and right now life is good!
 

GopherGold24 said:
because they run a good program and graduate kids and their coach is a class act and hence they feel diminished in their own life. It's the same reason reality TV is so popular, because our society loves to see people fail so that it makes us all feel better. But, once they fail and fall to a certain level we then feel bad for them and want to give them that 2nd chance. I just wish people would admit this is why they hate Duke. I have no problem with that, but when people start bringing up the refs and coach k's sideline antics and Steve Wojo and all this other stuff it makes me laugh. I guess Duke is the Yankees of basketball according to Digger Phelps, you either love them or hate them. If Duke played the Gophers I would be pulling for Minnesota in a hearbeat, but when you grow up in the early 80's following Duke and meeting the coaches and players you do feel a bond. Not sure the point of this post. I guess the point is, hating Duke is fine just admit you want to see teh best fail like I do with the Yankees and the Lakers.
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Not really. People don't hate North Carolina and MSU (more successful programs this decade) like that, nor UCLA and Kentucky pre-Calipari (more successful historically). And most people probably don't hate Kansas (arguably the most preeminent of all), though I happen to dislike them because of the Memphis game and because of Aldrich.

One or two obnoxious players, combined with over-exposure and some success, can pretty much paint a school as a villain for a long time. Combine Laettner/Hurley/Reddick/Wojo with the ESPN overhype with the perception of favoritism by officials with fact that it's a private, expensive school, and you pretty much have your standard "villain."

The whole country (outside of Durham) would've been celebrating like crazy had Hayward's shot fallen.
 

GopherGold24 said:
because they run a good program and graduate kids and their coach is a class act and hence they feel diminished in their own life. It's the same reason reality TV is so popular, because our society loves to see people fail so that it makes us all feel better. But, once they fail and fall to a certain level we then feel bad for them and want to give them that 2nd chance. I just wish people would admit this is why they hate Duke. I have no problem with that, but when people start bringing up the refs and coach k's sideline antics and Steve Wojo and all this other stuff it makes me laugh. I guess Duke is the Yankees of basketball according to Digger Phelps, you either love them or hate them. If Duke played the Gophers I would be pulling for Minnesota in a hearbeat, but when you grow up in the early 80's following Duke and meeting the coaches and players you do feel a bond. Not sure the point of this post. I guess the point is, hating Duke is fine just admit you want to see teh best fail like I do with the Yankees and the Lakers.
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This is a big part of why I can't stand Duke fans. I heard this same crap all the time when I lived in North Carolina. If you criticize Duke or Coach K in any way, the response was "you're just jealous." So if we love to see top teams fail, why wouldn't there be just as much hate for North Carolina, Kansas, or any other elite program? I think you're way off here.

Dick Vitale and most of the media keep preaching how clean of a program they run. The Corey Maggette situation is totally ridiculous to me. Maggette accepted money from a coach the summer before he enrolled at Duke. After he left school, it all came out. Neither side denied it. Duke didn't know about this so they shouldn't have lost scholarships or anything, but they should have been stripped of their National Championship appearance that year. Of course, that never happened.

I remember reading an article about the Maggette thing about 5 years after it happened. The writer contact the NCAA about it and they responded with "we're still investigating it." Investigating what? Both the coach and Maggette admitted that it happened.

That happens in almost any other program, and guys like Vitale would have been critical. But not Duke, they do no wrong.
 

WanderingGopher said:
Not really. People don't hate North Carolina and MSU (more successful programs this decade) like that, nor UCLA and Kentucky pre-Calipari (more successful historically). And most people probably don't hate Kansas (arguably the most preeminent of all), though I happen to dislike them because of the Memphis game and because of Aldrich.

One or two obnoxious players, combined with over-exposure and some success, can pretty much paint a school as a villain for a long time. Combine Laettner/Hurley/Reddick/Wojo with the ESPN overhype with the perception of favoritism by officials with fact that it's a private, expensive school, and you pretty much have your standard "villain."

The whole country (outside of Durham) would've been celebrating like crazy had Hayward's shot fallen.
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1. "People don't hate North Carolina and MSU (more successful programs this decade) like that"

- No school has more championships this decade than Duke. I don't think I'd really say UNC or MSU were more successful. Carolina missed the tourney twice. Duke has more ACC titles and tourney wins. Duke has as many National Championships. As for MSU, they have more Final 4's but again Duke has more National Championships (2 to 0, 2000 was last decade) and no school has more wins than Duke this decade.

2. "One or two obnoxious players, combined with over-exposure and some success"

- Some success? Since the time many on this board were born, no school has more
National Championships
Final Fours
Tournament wins
Total wins
Conference titles
Conference tournament titles

3. "Combine Laettner/Hurley/Reddick/Wojo with the ESPN overhype with the perception of favoritism by officials." "

- I get Laettner. Even his teammates hated him. I kind of get Redick but if you change is skin color, he'd be completely and utterly tolerated for whatever cockiness he displayed. I don't get Hurley or Wojo. An interesting societal study would be to get to the core of why white people tend to hate white basketball players. This was discussed by Tim Brando on the radio last week for almost 2 full hours. It was pretty riviting and he even brought in a some psyc prof that tried to explain it. I personally think Wojo would be held up as the ultimate example of hating a guy for no other reason than he's white.

- The perception of favoritism by officials is just that: a perception. The myth has been debunked by statistical analysis (I linked some research paper a while back (can't find it with a quick Google search) that looked at all games Duke played over the past 25 years and those of the top 20 teams and it proved 2 things: 1) Winning teams shot more free throws and get fewer fouls called on them in any given point in a game and that Duke's numbers were actually below the standard for a team that wins at their rate and 2) If total fouls and free throws are the judge, no school benefited more than UNC. No single team beat the winning correlation to fouls/FTs more often and as regularly than UNC.

4. "that it's a private, expensive school"

- What are you trying to get at here? Elitism? Sliver spoon? White? Duke's student population is 47% white, far lower than almost every single non-historically black college in the country. The perception that Duke is just a bunch of rich white kids is a complete myth. Duke is one of the most diverse private schools in the country, coming from all backgrounds imaginable. Also, it's expensive because it's private. Most private schools are. Butler is private and has a tuition in line with Duke's. My family isn't rich yet members of it went to Duke. Endowments exist in bunches so those that can't afford the tuition get access to the school if they're deserving academically. Stop with the Classism because it might surprise you to actually see the makeup of the student body at Duke.
 


Juicer said:
That kind of connection sounds interesting. You were okay with this?
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Haha. Yeah it was around sunrise at the beach outside the resort in Maui. They both spotted some sort of dolphin or whale out in the water. She actually didn't know his name, but knew he played for Duke. It was just the 2 of them and he actually asked my wife more questions about why she was there, her job, etc than the inverse. The day before we had just played the Kapalua Plantation course and he's a big golfer and wished he was allowed to play a round while they were there. Totally innocent but from that time on, she became a big Henderson fan.

That's the type of experience you get at the Maui Invitation. Highly recommend all Gopher fans go if they're invited. It's really cool to stay the week at the team hotel and mingle with the players and coaches from your school and other schools for the week. In our hotel (Hyatt), was Duke, Princeton, and Chaminade. The Westin just down the beach a couple of blocks was where Marquette, ASU, and LSU stayed and then at the Sheraton right next to it was where Illinois and Oklahoma St stayed. Since many of the games are in the morning or early afternoon in Maui so they're on at a decent time back in the lower 48, the afternoon around the pool and beach is blanketed with players and coaches from all of the schools. It's just a really cool experience, plus the basketball is awesome.
 

Pewter, I actually have the LONG report of foul calls you are refering to. If you would like it I would be happy to email it out as I dont know how to attach a Word file. SS, I wasn't trying to make a blanket statement about you hating Duke because of the reasons I posted, so I do apologize for that and you are correct you can like or dislike any team that you so chose. Not sure a program that has been the strongest over the last 30 years can be coined "overhyped" but I do understand where you are coming from with all the Vitale stuff. For those that have ever spent time at Duke, Pewter is right in that it's a very diverse university. How can anyone hate Hurley! It is strange though to think that in 1991 when Duke played UNLV I thought the world was pulling for Duke, but talking to people as I got older they absolutely loved that UNLV team even back then and many wanting to see them go undefeated. Same wit that sleazeball, Nolan Richardson, that ran that Arkanas program. A lot of folks loved that team as well and wanted them to pound Duke in the 1994 game. That Scotty Thurman shot still shows up in my nightmares from time to time.
 

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