How good is the 2023-24 team?

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Zeppelin Gopher said:
Cooper, sure.

Samuels, that was not the case. Nobody thought he was anything more than a depth piece at best.
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Apparently Ben did. he started a bunch of games early. And I recall seeing posts about how he played great against Stanford etc. the same cherry-picking we see about Mitchell and Hawkins. I'm not saying they won't be better but it's not a given.
 

howeda7 said:
Apparently Ben did. he started a bunch of games early. And I recall seeing posts about how he played great against Stanford etc. the same cherry-picking we see about Mitchell and Hawkins. I'm not saying they won't be better but it's not a given.
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Samuels was a laughable addition last year from day 1. Mitchell and Hawkins are both better, but not likely good enough to get us out of the basement.
 

howeda7 said:
Apparently Ben did. he started a bunch of games early. And I recall seeing posts about how he played great against Stanford etc. the same cherry-picking we see about Mitchell and Hawkins. I'm not saying they won't be better but it's not a given.
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Yes it actually is a given.
 




I don't think it's a matter of being better at one position. they have to be better at every position.

and I think there is an actual chance of that happening. it doesn't have to be a huge improvement - but if there is at least some improvement at every position, the overall picture looks a lot better.

Garcia - 2nd year in the system
Payne - a year of experience and presumably strength and training work
JOJ - a year of work on his outside shot
Carrington - just staying healthy would be a boost
Ihnen - any contribution is an improvement over last year
Fox - same as above

Mitchell/Hawkins - can their combined contribution exceed what the Gophers got from Cooper and Samuels? On defense alone, I would think improvement is likely

Christie - adds an athlete who - on paper - can handle the ball and shoot. can he be better than what they got from Henley in a similar position? (I sure hope so)

Betts - another athlete with length
Wilson - size and strength at backup post that the team did not have last year

I fully concede that there are a lot of IF's in there. but just to my eye, this is a deeper and more athletic roster with more shooters and more experience inside.
 





bga1 said:
It’s a hypothetical I proposed to Bob. Nobody is saying they are or are not. We just don’t know at this point. We do know that Mitchell, Hawkins, Carrington and Christie are all solid shooters- so that’s a start.
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Based on what other teams have in the back court, I just don't think it's realistic that we have even a top 10 backcourt in the conference. It's not a shot at our guys, but even, unproven at they are at this level, have a ways to go to be better than other backcourts. MSU, Purdue, MD, OSU, NW, Wisconsin, Illinois, Iowa and IU for sure have better back courts. I'd put PSU as better too considering their starting PG was A-10 player of the year last year. That gets us down to 11th. Can we be better than Michigan, Rutgers and Nebraska? I think so, but it's not guaranteed.
 

Gophers7633 said:
Based on what other teams have in the back court, I just don't think it's realistic that we have even a top 10 backcourt in the conference. It's not a shot at our guys, but even, unproven at they are at this level, have a ways to go to be better than other backcourts. MSU, Purdue, MD, OSU, NW, Wisconsin, Illinois, Iowa and IU for sure have better back courts. I'd put PSU as better too considering their starting PG was A-10 player of the year last year. That gets us down to 11th. Can we be better than Michigan, Rutgers and Nebraska? I think so, but it's not guaranteed.
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I agree with most of this, but Nebraska has Tominaga, who is far and away better than any other G we have plus they brought in Coleman from Ball St. They also have depth guys like Wilcher and Ulis, I'd take that backcourt in a heartbeat over ours.

Rutgers brought in Fernandes, who I think is better than anyone we have, plus a few other interesting pieces and a talented freshman similar to Christie. Rutgers will play defense at a high level regardless, so I think they'll be fine.

I'm not a fan of what Michigan brought in and I think they'll be a weakling Wednesday team so we may be in the ballpark there.

But despite an 'improved' backcourt, the Gophers will still have one of the worst in the conference.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
I agree with most of this, but Nebraska has Tominaga, who is far and away better than any other G we have plus they brought in Coleman from Ball St. They also have depth guys like Wilcher and Ulis, I'd take that backcourt in a heartbeat over ours.

Rutgers brought in Fernandes, who I think is better than anyone we have, plus a few other interesting pieces and a talented freshman similar to Christie. Rutgers will play defense at a high level regardless, so I think they'll be fine.

I'm not a fan of what Michigan brought in and I think they'll be a weakling Wednesday team so we may be in the ballpark there.

But despite an 'improved' backcourt, the Gophers will still have one of the worst in the conference.
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Yeah, I couldn't remember who else Nebraska brought in. Idk if Ulis will be eligible, but if he is, and even if he's not, that's probably better.

Yeah, I agree the backcourt will be better(how could it not), but it's still a bottom 2 or 3 backcourt in the league. Hoping Christie has a huge impact, as he's the only one who can lift the ceiling of the backcourt IMO
 

Gophers7633 said:
Based on what other teams have in the back court, I just don't think it's realistic that we have even a top 10 backcourt in the conference. It's not a shot at our guys, but even, unproven at they are at this level, have a ways to go to be better than other backcourts. MSU, Purdue, MD, OSU, NW, Wisconsin, Illinois, Iowa and IU for sure have better back courts. I'd put PSU as better too considering their starting PG was A-10 player of the year last year. That gets us down to 11th. Can we be better than Michigan, Rutgers and Nebraska? I think so, but it's not guaranteed.
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Yeah, Ace Baldwin is a nice add and also A-10 defensive player of the year.
Geeze!
Good post.
 



Gophers7633 said:
Based on what other teams have in the back court, I just don't think it's realistic that we have even a top 10 backcourt in the conference. It's not a shot at our guys, but even, unproven at they are at this level, have a ways to go to be better than other backcourts. MSU, Purdue, MD, OSU, NW, Wisconsin, Illinois, Iowa and IU for sure have better back courts. I'd put PSU as better too considering their starting PG was A-10 player of the year last year. That gets us down to 11th. Can we be better than Michigan, Rutgers and Nebraska? I think so, but it's not guaranteed.
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I’m thinking less solid backcourts in the league than you. Including ours. I think that is the biggest mystery of the Big Ten season. So, I’ll wait and see.

From your list, MSU, WI, and MD (they’ll miss Hart though) has a for sure good backcourt.

Purdue has 2 good pieces, but they were 290th in outside shooting percentage. Those 2 good pieces still need to make the jump. And a starter transferred out.

IL, NW, OSU, all have a good/great backcourt player returning.

IU and IA? Not sure I can think of anyone that is great. Maybe a contributor or 2. X Johnson is crucial for IN, but I wouldn’t annoint him.
 

Unless we stomp out the heroball that has plagued the team for the last decade, we aren't cracking the top 12 in the conference.
 




forever a gopher said:
Are you insinuating we had a "lockdown" defense?

FG% against was ranked 258 (out of 352 teams, per NCAA website) and scoring defense was 205/352. Steals per game were 336/352. When you figure the pace they played at (slow), the scoring defense number looks worse. So while there were a number of teams worse, I'm not sure I'd categorize as "lockdown".
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I think in trying to respond to the content of this post, you missed the poster. GaG doesn't really post anything but sarcasm.
 


No one knows. All the transfers have not played at this level. They could be good, could be horrible. Look at all the struggles the FB transfers are having coming from smaller schools.

IMO Garcia, Payne, Carrington, and JOJ are the only ones we’ve seen play and can really form an educated opinion about.
 

gopherbadgerman said:
Look at all the struggles the FB transfers are having coming from smaller schools.
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I'd say they're a mixed bag. Jack Henderson has been good. Tyler Baugh took some time to get going but has been pretty good this season. Tre'Von Jones is adequate. Selig is just fair but he seems to have improved as the year has progressed. Crooms had a terrible game against Iowa but has been fair overall this season. Sean Tyler definitely has been below expectations.

Of course, Jack Gibbens, from Abilene Christian, was very good a couple of years ago.
 




bga1 said:
Let's try this:
The guards are average but efficient. (shoot well when open and distribute, knock down FTs)
The bigs are well better than average in the Big Ten. (as you say)
We use our depth and length to play good D and more than hold our own on the boards.
Where do we finish?
I don't think that any of that is beyond the realm of possibility.
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But you forgot you mention coaching. Coaching matters and in this case our coach is ranked all that high. To date he has shown why he is not ranked all that high.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
I don't think it's a matter of being better at one position. they have to be better at every position.

and I think there is an actual chance of that happening. it doesn't have to be a huge improvement - but if there is at least some improvement at every position, the overall picture looks a lot better.

Garcia - 2nd year in the system
Payne - a year of experience and presumably strength and training work
JOJ - a year of work on his outside shot
Carrington - just staying healthy would be a boost
Ihnen - any contribution is an improvement over last year
Fox - same as above

Mitchell/Hawkins - can their combined contribution exceed what the Gophers got from Cooper and Samuels? On defense alone, I would think improvement is likely

Christie - adds an athlete who - on paper - can handle the ball and shoot. can he be better than what they got from Henley in a similar position? (I sure hope so)

Betts - another athlete with length
Wilson - size and strength at backup post that the team did not have last year

I fully concede that there are a lot of IF's in there. but just to my eye, this is a deeper and more athletic roster with more shooters and more experience inside.
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Great post SON. I'll add that we have a coaching staff that having gone through a year in the B1G is going to be improved as well.
 


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