Honest Question: What does PJ bring to the table?

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PJ’s rah rah, even if it worked, was always short-lived. Unfortunately, that seems to be all he has. He had a magical season, but his ceiling never was as high as most wanted to believe and he continues to mostly disappoint. We could (and have) do worse, but it wouldn’t be hard to do better either. With NIL and now the new B1G coming his chances are near 0. The team’s chances are similar. The reality of the situation sucks. Wisconsin recognized that last year. Not sure MN will, or cares.
 

Spoofin said:
PJ’s rah rah, even if it worked, was always short-lived. Unfortunately, that seems to be all he has. He had a magical season, but his ceiling never was as high as most wanted to believe and he continues to mostly disappoint. We could (and have) do worse, but it wouldn’t be hard to do better either. With NIL and now the new B1G coming his chances are near 0. The team’s chances are similar. The reality of the situation sucks. Wisconsin recognized that last year. Not sure MN will, or cares.
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What about the last 50 years of gopher football makes you think it wouldn’t be hard to do better than Fleck here?
 

csom_1991 said:
This is some of the worse product I have seen on the field - yes. Tim Brewster's 1st year was horrible - but even they kept it to 34-10 vs. Michigan. We are in year 7 of Fleck and this team is a huge step back from last year in every phase of the game. Brewster was a disaster for the Gophers but he was able to take his 1-11 2007 team and go 7-6 the following year because even in 1-11, we could see some stars emerging. I don't see ANY stars emerging on this team - I see regression in every aspect of the product on the field. Take BSF - what the hell is happening there? To me, it seems like Fleck has lost the team.
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Did you see any emerging stars when you wrote the team off in 2018?
 

I know this season has sucked so far.

I get that it is year 7.

BUT, think about NCAA football over the last 7 years .... realignment, NIL, transfer portal, etc.

In these crazy times where college football is turning into the HAVE'S ( THE 15 - 20 SCHOOLS THAT CAN RECRUIT AND PAY THESE HUGH END KIDS) AND THE have not's ( everyone else that will be playing for 8 to 9 win seasons and fun bowl games).

We are a HAVE NOT school. We have to have a coach that can come in and get 3 star recruits, keep them on campus for 5 years and develop them from back ups to good players and starters for a couple years.

I am frustrated as ever with our offensive game.plan and play calling, but taking a look from farther away and seeing where the NCAA is and his headed, we have a guy in PJ that I think fits with what a school.like Minnesota has to do....

We are a developmental type program. Get hard working kids to come in and buy into a culture and fight their way up the depth chart.

6-9 wins a year is the "mountain top" for a school like Minnesota in the new era of college football.
 




btowngopher said:
Did you see any emerging stars when you wrote the team off in 2018?
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Are you being serious right now? In 2018, we already had Tyler Johnson, Mo, and Bateman as recognized stars. On D, we had Winfield.

I don't think anyone expected 12 wins in 2019, but the main pieces were already performing in 2018.

Heck, maybe I am wrong and we will win 3 of our remaining games and then a bowl to salvage the season. But, looking at the team now - to me, they look like a bunch that has quit on their head coach. I think the season will not improve but I hope that I am mistaken and they can rally to a strong finish. I just don't see any indications for that and next year will only be harder.
 

NotAFanOfBecky said:
Best run of successful seasons in my 45+ year history of watching, he’s earned more time from me. I’ve been through way too many years of misery.
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Ya people act like he isn’t the most successful coach we have had in 50 years.

This is Minnesota. This is as good as it gets.
 

mnsportsgeek said:
Ya people act like he isn’t the most successful coach we have had in 50 years.

This is Minnesota. This is as good as it gets.
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This season would look much different with same players and competent coaching. This is far less a system issue than an X's and O's problem.
 




mngg11 said:
I think he was the right coach before NIL and the transfer portal took off. I don't think there's anyone this program can bring in who will make us competitive with our lack of resources and contributing alumni. The only thing that can bring this program back to relevance is the Vikings investing heavily in us with NIL and utilizing us as a feeder program. Otherwise we're dead in the water, whether it's Fleck or some other poor schmuck at the helm. It's unsustainable without a major corporate investment in the program.
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I’m surprised the Raiders are investing in UNLV because I don’t think there is any value at all in an NFL team having a successful university nearby.

In fact, I think it’s a negative for the NFL team to prop up the local university as it creates competition for entertainment dollars.

The Vikings are smarter than the Raiders.
 

Do you remember PJ's zig-zag chart? If Zig is down, the Gophers are in a down year.
 

PL Fleck is a great promoter and advocate for the University of Minnesota and the State in general. He has brought a heightened sense of interest in Gophers football. He has had a few highlights (Penn State, Auburn, Wisconsin games). He has brought the program higher than most of the prior regimes.

What he has not done is recruit at the level necessary to compete with the elite programs in this conference. Scheme and changing OC/DCs can close the gap but he doesn't have the talent here. It was really evident last night.
 



mnsportsgeek said:
I’m surprised the Raiders are investing in UNLV because I don’t think there is any value at all in an NFL team having a successful university nearby.
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Could be because most of their fans are from out of the area. So, make it into travel to take in 2 teams on the same trip. But outside of that, I agree with you.
 


PJ Fleck made the Gophers competitive and instilled fun for many who suffered throughout the years past Glen Mason.

Moving forward with NIL and the new Big Ten, the Gophers are at a disadvantage in recruiting at a higher level and money. They have to change and adapt.

I don't know what the answers are truly. Harbaugh may not be the answer to run the offense. Coaching is coming into view. The Gophers are not deep talent-wise.
 

btowngopher said:
What about the last 50 years of gopher football makes you think it wouldn’t be hard to do better than Fleck here?
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Fair point, but my point is that PJ is nothing special. We could do worse. We could do better.
 


laazrakit said:
First, in the difference between Brewster and PJ Fleck... Fleck hit one out of the park on hiring Rossi as DC. That hire may have saved his ass. He's whiffed a bit on his OC hires. Brewster... he never was able to put together a decent staff, and he was shown the door.

Also, even though Fleck has been bringing in some talent through the portal, the Gophers have lost quite a bit of talent. Because of that, Fleck & Co. are relying on some very inexperienced freshmen who shouldn't be shouldering the responsibilities that they've been tasked with.

Did you see Michigan's O-line...? How many transfers did they have starting? It was a lot of 'em. Fleck is going to have to be more aggresive with the portal... it is the way college football works these days.

That leads to NIL... The Gophers don't have the $$$$ to compete with the Michigan's of the college football world. Maybe some of the grassroots stuff will keep the program afloat, but it's going to take more to get PJ rowing with the big boys. Can they somehow get some corporate backing in this town? I dunno... but if they don't, the Gophers are going to have to settle for losing high-level recruits to schools with deeper pockets (unless PJ gets the kids and their parents to drink the kool-aid, so to speak. It has worked with some, but the players who are just looking for a stepping stone to the NFL will look elsewhere for a paycheck.)
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Then I heard this morning that the NBC stooges said NIL money leveled the playing field. Go figure.
 

Texan Gopher said:
I know this season has sucked so far.

I get that it is year 7.

BUT, think about NCAA football over the last 7 years .... realignment, NIL, transfer portal, etc.

In these crazy times where college football is turning into the HAVE'S ( THE 15 - 20 SCHOOLS THAT CAN RECRUIT AND PAY THESE HUGH END KIDS) AND THE have not's ( everyone else that will be playing for 8 to 9 win seasons and fun bowl games).

We are a HAVE NOT school. We have to have a coach that can come in and get 3 star recruits, keep them on campus for 5 years and develop them from back ups to good players and starters for a couple years.

I am frustrated as ever with our offensive game.plan and play calling, but taking a look from farther away and seeing where the NCAA is and his headed, we have a guy in PJ that I think fits with what a school.like Minnesota has to do....

We are a developmental type program. Get hard working kids to come in and buy into a culture and fight their way up the depth chart.

6-9 wins a year is the "mountain top" for a school like Minnesota in the new era of college football.
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That is exactly why we need hard working kids who benefit from game planning and in-game strategy. We get no benefits of game planning and the n-game decision making which is why we put us stinkers (BG and NW) and haven’t beaten Iowa.
 

NotAFanOfBecky said:
Best run of successful seasons in my 45+ year history of watching, he’s earned more time from me. I’ve been through way too many years of misery.
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I agree. This is a down season. People are whining that we're moving in the wrong direction.....but every program in the nation has down years. Every single one. We'll see how the team performs in the new look (and more difficult) B10. Fleck will need to change his best.....and if he can't......then it'll be time to move on.
 

laazrakit said:
Unfortunately, the NIL dollars are often quite necessary to bring in those better players from the transfer portal. Don't have the dollars available? Then you roll the dice on whether or not a player from Western Michigan, Abilene Christian, or some other FCS or mid-tier school will be able to step up.
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I think the point here is that there is more talented backups sitting on the bench on top 15 teams than many starters for the Gophs. Those are the players he needs to target. It seems teams like Mich are getting the top talented starters off good teams not in the top 15 who can step in and start immediately.
 

csom_1991 said:
Are you being serious right now? In 2018, we already had Tyler Johnson, Mo, and Bateman as recognized stars. On D, we had Winfield.

I don't think anyone expected 12 wins in 2019, but the main pieces were already performing in 2018.

Heck, maybe I am wrong and we will win 3 of our remaining games and then a bowl to salvage the season. But, looking at the team now - to me, they look like a bunch that has quit on their head coach. I think the season will not improve but I hope that I am mistaken and they can rally to a strong finish. I just don't see any indications for that and next year will only be harder.
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So far, this season has been a pretty massive disappointment - not just from the start of the season but from the expectations set at the end of last season. I think we can still scrape together 2 more wins, but I don't see us winning 6 or competing against any of the upper tier teams in the Big Ten. Do I see improvement from last year? Maybe a little at best but I still don't see anything innovative for fielding a winning team other than the magical 'recruiting'. I know it is too early to give up on PJ....I know, I know, he gets 3+ years to prove himself.
 

csom_1991 said:
I don't know if anyone knows what is Fleck's pitch to the recruits - but I would love to know it. He is not an X and O's guy (everyone admits it), he is not a great game day coach (as seen over and over), he is not a great player development coach. Not that we are in year 7 and people can see his body of work, the 'you are joining something great' speech has to ring hollow.

So, what is the speech? He can give early playing time so they can audition for a transfer portal NIL deal? We don't even have the promise of a new stadium or facilities, etc which will totally change things around. We have no offensive identity - we have no defensive identity. Is it a chance at a great education? So, what is the pitch to get players to come here?
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He is undefeated in the end of quarter run to the other end
 

He is an excellent motivator although some questions if that effect is still as strong.
He clearly recruits outstanding RBs and for the most part WRs.
Does above average in the portal (seems to get more talent than he loses in general).
Does not lose many games that he shouldn’t.
Does not win many of the big games that would get him to the next level (B1G championship game, beat Iowa, beat Wisconsin when they’re actually good, NY6 bowl etc.)
Definitely has the team prepared for bowl games because he wins them.
However, record has benefited from a weak schedule with somewhat downtrending West.

A generation ago if you were told there would be 11-2, 9-4, 9-4 seasons, many would be surprised that this included no division (I know those didn’t exist then) or conference championship, Rose Bowl or other “BCS” bowl and no wins over Iowa in that stretch.
 
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golfing18now said:
PL Fleck is a great promoter and advocate for the University of Minnesota and the State in general. He has brought a heightened sense of interest in Gophers football. He has had a few highlights (Penn State, Auburn, Wisconsin games). He has brought the program higher than most of the prior regimes.

What he has not done is recruit at the level necessary to compete with the elite programs in this conference. Scheme and changing OC/DCs can close the gap but he doesn't have the talent here. It was really evident last night.
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+o4
 

csom_1991 said:
I don't know if anyone knows what is Fleck's pitch to the recruits - but I would love to know it. He is not an X and O's guy (everyone admits it), he is not a great game day coach (as seen over and over), he is not a great player development coach. Not that we are in year 7 and people can see his body of work, the 'you are joining something great' speech has to ring hollow.

So, what is the speech? He can give early playing time so they can audition for a transfer portal NIL deal? We don't even have the promise of a new stadium or facilities, etc which will totally change things around. We have no offensive identity - we have no defensive identity. Is it a chance at a great education? So, what is the pitch to get players to come here?
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It's early, but this is a contender for dumbest post I'll read today.
You did nothing to build a worthy argument, and most of what you are implying is based on false premises.

1. The not an X's and O's coach is something that's been broadly over perpetuated on this site than anywhere else. If you watched this program and don't think he is at least an average coach when it comes to X's and O's, among 130 coaches, I can't help you. Your head is too deep in the sand.

2. People complain about his game day coaching, but he's made very few bad coaching decisions that have cost us games. There have been a couple against Purdue, Northwestern and Bowling Green, but he has also won more games of these types than most. He may not be the best game day coach, I'm curious who your top 10 game day coaches are, and we can check with those fan bases and they would largely scoff at you for believing that if you tried to tell them that.

3. You are dead wrong on player development coach. By magazines that have tracked this PJ has shown he's top 7 in both player development (getting players drafted) and in player performance (winning more games with less talent). If you are this ignorant to the fact this is a strength of his across college football, I'm feeling sadness in the fact I am even trying to communicate this with you because you were obviously too ignorant and biased to try and investigate this point before trashing the head coach.

At this point I'm going to end my rebuttal because someone who is is this lazy in forming an opinion doesn't need the attention I've given you.
 

Catechol said:
He is an excellent motivator although some questions if that effect is still as strong.
He clearly recruits outstanding RBs and for the most part WRs.
Does above average in the portal (seems to get more talent than he loses in general).
Does not lose many games that he shouldn’t.
Does not win many of the big games that would get him to the next level (B1G championship game, beat Iowa, beat Wisconsin when they’re actually good, NY6 bowl etc.)
Definitely has the team prepared for bowl games because he wins them.
However, record has benefited from a weak schedule with somewhat downtrending West.

A generation ago if you were told there would be 11-2, 9-4, 9-4 seasons, many would be surprised that this included no division (I know those didn’t exist then) or conference championship, Rose Bowl or other “BCS” bowl and no wins over Iowa in that stretch.
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We are very bad at wide receiver. I don't understand how you can say this.

I hear every game how the receivers are getting no separation.
 

I'm going to go back to when Ty Whittingham was fired at Notre
Dame. The line came out that from Sunday to Friday, they were the best coached team in America. Games are played on Saturdays (usually), but the message there was that he was not a good game day coach. PJ brings a lot to the table Sunday through Friday with the work he does recruiting and running the program. He has won with us - no easy feat. Would I call him a good game day coach on Saturdays: Not necessarily. Doesn't seem like our athletes are trusted to potentially win - or make mistakes.
 

mngg11 said:
I think he was the right coach before NIL and the transfer portal took off. I don't think there's anyone this program can bring in who will make us competitive with our lack of resources and contributing alumni. The only thing that can bring this program back to relevance is the Vikings investing heavily in us with NIL and utilizing us as a feeder program. Otherwise we're dead in the water, whether it's Fleck or some other poor schmuck at the helm. It's unsustainable without a major corporate investment in the program.
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Yup, CFB has a major problem on their hands with the NIL and easy transfers. The only way to fix NIL is to cast aside amateurism, be a paid league with shared revenue, and prioritize paying players over non-revenue college sports. Until then, this is going to get worse and asking fans to pay more money to pay the players is awful. No. There's already plenty of money in CFB to pay players. Figure your own mess out.
 

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