Hockey = less D I football players

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MNSpaniel

MNSpaniel

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I am not from a hockey area so will rely on insight from others. Was wondering if those in the know think that because we have so many DI and DII hockey players in Minnesota ... does that take away athletes that would be DI scholarship football players.

If so ... just in looking at them from afar when they are on TV for state tournaments .... I would think that they would land on the defensive side of the ball . ?????
 

I don't think the type of athlete overlap much between the two sports. Just look at the Gopher's hockey roster. The average player on the team is about 6'0 and 190. And the Gophers are on the bigger side for hockey. There's a senior on the team that's 5'9 and 170 which isn't out of the norm even at the highest levels of hockey.

So while there might be a couple players that could have ended up as D1 safety's or QBs if they hadn't grown up in MN and played hockey, I'd imagine that number is pretty small.

The Gophers biggest instate recruiting problem in recent history is not finding and/or getting top level OL recruits in the same way that Wisconsin and Iowa do. They're here, but they either go elsewhere or fall through the cracks. And I'm pretty confident the crossover between top-level OL talent and hockey is near zero.
 



Maybe 1 potential loss per year for the Gopher football program. That’s not enough to make or break anything. Let’s not make excuses here.
 


It can I remember George Pelawa he was an all-state linebacker out of Bemidji 6'3 245 he was attending North Dakota to play hockey when he died in an automobile accident.
 

The Wolf said:
Maybe 1 potential loss per year for the Gopher football program. That’s not enough to make or break anything. Let’s not make excuses here.
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No excuses ... asking a reasonable question to those who know more than me.
 

MNSpaniel said:
I am not from a hockey area so will rely on insight from others. Was wondering if those in the know think that because we have so many DI and DII hockey players in Minnesota ... does that take away athletes that would be DI scholarship football players.

If so ... just in looking at them from afar when they are on TV for state tournaments .... I would think that they would land on the defensive side of the ball . ?????
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yes to some extent, but if there were more high-quality football players available, there would probably be more D1 football programs in the state too...
 

You can play hockey and football together. Lots of kids play both sports in Minnesota. Thomas Barber played hockey as well.

I have a kid (4th grade) in both. I think the biggest difference is the climate and length of the seasons here. The football season is very short for youth. You cram a whole season of practices and games into about 6-8 weeks here for youth football programs.
Hockey tryouts begin in October and the season lasts through February at a minimum. There are also a plethora of options for off season hockey

With all that said, Hockey is much more of a “skill” sport that takes practice and repetition. Kids can pickup football late in middle school and still be really good players as they learn schemes and technique.

For the kids who wants to play both sports, the agility, aggression and team aspects learned in youth hockey can only help football players as they mature.
 
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Well, first of all, there is no such thing as DII hockey.

I think the one thing that does hurt football somewhat, is the specialization of sports. I've often said that football is one of the last "pure" high school sports. In that it's not a year round sport. Sure there are camps and that, but there's no traveling season, no AAU football, nothing like that. So many other sports, from hockey to basketball to soccer to swimming, and even baseball to some extent, have seasons that extend long beyond the regular high school seasons. Some kids are basically blowing off high school sports to play longer seasons in hockey and hoops than the MSHSL will allow them.

If you're playing hockey or basketball year-round, you're not playing football.
 

nsmike said:
It can I remember George Pelawa he was an all-state linebacker out of Bemidji 6'3 245 he was attending North Dakota to play hockey when he died in an automobile accident.
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I’m in the Tampa area for the bowl game and went out golfing today. Got paired up with a guy from the Bemidji area. He asked me if I’d heard of Pelawa. I said of course I had. This guy was the first person at the scene of the accident. Blew me away.
 

discochris said:
Well, first of all, there is no such thing as DII hockey.

I think the one thing that does hurt football somewhat, is the specialization of sports. I've often said that football is one of the last "pure" high school sports. In that it's not a year round sport. Sure there are camps and that, but there's no traveling season, no AAU football, nothing like that. So many other sports, from hockey to basketball to soccer to swimming, and even baseball to some extent, have seasons that extend long beyond the regular high school seasons. Some kids are basically blowing off high school sports to play longer seasons in hockey and hoops than the MSHSL will allow them.

If you're playing hockey or basketball year-round, you're not playing football.
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Disagree. Because the football season is so short, it works very well with the year round winter sports of Basketball and Hockey. Plenty of time for high level athletes to do both. The biggest issue would be risk of injury imo. Football is brutal on the body.
 

Specialization prevents both basketball and hockey kids from playing football. The AAU scene has many believing they need to play year round. More unfortunate for our kids than football. Only 5 on the court or rink at at a time. Stats show a majority of kids quit before they’re 15. Pyramid effect.
 



Gold Vision said:
Disagree. Because the football season is so short, it works very well with the year round winter sports of Basketball and Hockey. Plenty of time for high level athletes to do both. The biggest issue would be risk of injury imo. Football is brutal on the body.
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I don't know a single kid that plays both hockey and football (my son is in middle school). I also coach his soccer team and know lots of families through our soccer club. There are some that mix hockey and baseball or hockey and soccer.

Minnesota has the best youth hockey culture in the country. Kids start early and people take it very seriously. I think the emphasis on that has really pulled back the number of kids that participate in high level football in Minnesota. Wisconsin and Iowa have no hockey culture and I think football takes its place in those states.
 

discochris said:
Well, first of all, there is no such thing as DII hockey.

I think the one thing that does hurt football somewhat, is the specialization of sports. I've often said that football is one of the last "pure" high school sports. In that it's not a year round sport. Sure there are camps and that, but there's no traveling season, no AAU football, nothing like that. So many other sports, from hockey to basketball to soccer to swimming, and even baseball to some extent, have seasons that extend long beyond the regular high school seasons. Some kids are basically blowing off high school sports to play longer seasons in hockey and hoops than the MSHSL will allow them.

If you're playing hockey or basketball year-round, you're not playing football.
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I did not know that there is no D II Hockey. So it is club hockey or D I. Even though we don’t have hockey I know of some kids leaving home to play club hockey while in H.S. That is quite a commitment.

I agree with some of the others that the AAU programs in all sports are demanding and lead to specialists. Although every state has those AAU programs but few have hockey.
 


MNSpaniel said:
I did not know that there is no D II Hockey. So it is club hockey or D I. Even though we don’t have hockey I know of some kids leaving home to play club hockey while in H.S. That is quite a commitment.

I agree with some of the others that the AAU programs in all sports are demanding and lead to specialists. Although every state has those AAU programs but few have hockey.
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there is DIII just not DII
 

I just got into coaching youth hockey this year after 30 years away from the sport. Youth hockey has come a long way and a lot of professionalism had entered development. It took six steps or so to get certified. Register, background check, safe sport, online video instruction, concussion training, classroom training and on ice training. This was to be an assistant for six year olds. The protocols are based in science and experience and they are run by USA hockey. Ostensibly it is to develop great national programs, but they put fun and development first. It is pretty amazing compared to what we had when I was a kid. There is no standing around and kid leave the ice sweaty and smiling and better for the training they receive. Consider that if a kid plays termites, they are four years old. By the time they start organized football, hockey has had its hooks in them for many years. Is there a football equivalent of Minnesota Made for football for 4-8 year olds in the Twin Cities? I’ll bet there is in Florida.

Also, even if football isn’t losing D1 players to hockey, HS football suffers when the best players don’t play.
 

Word said:
I don't know a single kid that plays both hockey and football (my son is in middle school). I also coach his soccer team and know lots of families through our soccer club. There are some that mix hockey and baseball or hockey and soccer.

Minnesota has the best youth hockey culture in the country. Kids start early and people take it very seriously. I think the emphasis on that has really pulled back the number of kids that participate in high level football in Minnesota. Wisconsin and Iowa have no hockey culture and I think football takes its place in those states.
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What school district? There were at least a dozen kids my son’s age playing both sports. Playing multiple sports, especially at the elementary and middle school ages is extremely important for development.

I’m sure there more, and it’s definitely more of a rarity these days, but these guys come to mind as successful Football/Hockey athletes that could’ve played either sport at the college level.

Anders Lee
Paul Martin
Rob Larue
Thomas Barber
 

Ben Brinkman would have been the best football player at Edina his junior and senior years (excepting the tackle who went to Norte Dame) but he quit for hockey his junior year and then graduated a year early to get to the U.

I have no idea if he was D1 quality in football, but the team would have been better with him on it. Raising the level of play across the board by avoiding specialization would be good for football IMO, even if the hockey players might not have the size / speed to play D1 football.
 

badgergopher said:
Ben Brinkman would have been the best football player at Edina his junior and senior years (excepting the tackle who went to Norte Dame) but he quit for hockey his junior year and then graduated a year early to get to the U.

I have no idea if he was D1 quality in football, but the team would have been better with him on it. Raising the level of play across the board by avoiding specialization would be good for football IMO, even if the hockey players might not have the size / speed to play D1 football.
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I agree with this. MN hockey doesn't really hurt Gopher football but it does affect football at lower levels in the state. Most (but not all) of my friends growing up who had a reasonable shot at playing varsity hockey quit all other sports in middle school. And this was ~15 years ago. I can imagine it's only gotten more specialized since.
 

Gold Vision said:
What school district? There were at least a dozen kids my son’s age playing both sports. Playing multiple sports, especially at the elementary and middle school ages is extremely important for development.

I’m sure there more, and it’s definitely more of a rarity these days, but these guys come to mind as successful Football/Hockey athletes that could’ve played either sport at the college level.

Anders Lee
Paul Martin
Rob Larue
Thomas Barber
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I live in the NW metro suburbs. As Badgergopher and NE MPLS Guy said, it's not that those hockey guys would be necessarily huge difference makers on the football field, but the fact that so many kids are specializing in hockey (committing huge amounts of time and money) that it contributes to a general lack of interest and commitment to football.
 

Both hockey and football carry the risk of long term brain damage but the data in football is greater and more publicized. The NY Times has been running a series on the significant decline in young people playing football. The most interesting statistic is despite being a minority in the population young men of color are now close to being a majority of football players.
I would say because of a decreased risk of brain damage soccer is taking away white players from football.
 

LOL, not a big need for 5'10" 170 white guys running 5.2 40's.

I do recall Craig and Joel Otto being great HS players at Elk River. Craig played TE late 80's and Joel had long NHL career.
 

I'm sure it has some impact but not a ton.

People should not be looking at the weight of the hockey players and say "they aren't big enough". In youth sports today, the issue happens at 9th/10th grade. The kid that is 6'4"/6'5" focuses on hockey instead of football. That focus includes training and building your body. There are plenty of large framed kids from MN who get drafted. This is just a list from the kids listed as possibly being drafted in the 2019 NHL draft fro m MN.

Ryder Donovan - 6'4" 200 lbs
Will Francis - 6'5" 210 lbs
Kaden Bohlson - 6'3" 190 lbs
Ben Brinkman - 6'1" 215 lbs
Joey Foss - 6'4" 220 lbs
Drew Helleson - 6'3" 200 lbs
Keegan Karki - 6'4" 220 lbs

If those kids would have picked football and focused solely on football, there are definite DE/TE/LB in that group. I am speaking terms of frame. I am not trying to argue that any of them would have been D1 football players, I have no idea. I also am not arguing that hockey is a reason that the Gophers have struggled.

I am just saying that arguing that "hockey players would be too small anyway" is kind of missing the point.
 
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Bob_Loblaw said:
I'm sure it has some impact but not a ton.

People should not be looking at the weight of the hockey players and say "they aren't big enough". In youth sports today, the issue happens at 9th/10th grade. The kid that is 6'4"/6'5" focuses on hockey instead of football. That focus includes training and building your body. There are plenty of large framed kids from MN who get drafted. This is just a list from the kids listed as possibly being drafted in the 2019 NHL draft fro m MN.

Ryder Donovan - 6'4" 200 lbs
Will Francis - 6'5" 210 lbs
Kaden Bohlson - 6'3" 190 lbs
Ben Brinkman - 6'1" 215 lbs
Joey Foss - 6'4" 220 lbs
Drew Helleson - 6'3" 200 lbs
Keegan Karki - 6'4" 220 lbs

If those kids would have picked football and focused solely on football, there are definite DE/TE/LB in that group. I am speaking terms of frame. I am not trying to argue that any of them would have been D1 football players, I have no idea. I also am not arguing that hockey is a reason that the Gophers have struggled.

I am just saying that arguing that "hockey players would be too small anyway" is kid of missing the point.
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I would think that skating would keep them a little leaner than if they focused on football. Good Info.
 

Gold Vision said:
What school district? There were at least a dozen kids my son’s age playing both sports. Playing multiple sports, especially at the elementary and middle school ages is extremely important for development.

I’m sure there more, and it’s definitely more of a rarity these days, but these guys come to mind as successful Football/Hockey athletes that could’ve played either sport at the college level.

Anders Lee
Paul Martin
Rob Larue
Thomas Barber
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Wasn’t sure if Thomas played, there’s my answer. His two older brothers played for Wayzata, one I believe was on the first state tournament team in a long time.
 


Of course hockey in Minnesota affects participation in football. The number HS hockey players in Minnesota that play football is negligible.

Ipso facto, participation in hockey affects participation and development in football. Supreme hockey players in the 5-11’- 6-1’ 185# range in Minnesota would not have played hockey in other states and would for the most part played football.

Hockey participation definitely affects football in Minnesota.
 

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