Guards Ben tried to recruit

[Bayfieldgopher]

I looked back at one of my old Rivals posts last December about our lack of PG's.
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" There were many who felt that our PG and SG position needs weren't met. This has been verified by what we have seen thus far this season.

What about the various players who were offered or visited? Guys like Michael Jones (Stanford), Josiah Strong (CSU), Ryan Larson (CoC), Sam Sessoms (Coppin St), Nick Honor (Mizzou), Cam Spenser (Rutgers), Isiah Thompson (FGCU), Hunter McIntosh (Nevada), Kerwin Walton (TT), Parker Stewart (UT Martin) and our TRF Thiam (High Point). The guys that have been among the most productive thus far are Cam Spenser (Rutgers) Sessoms (Coppin St.), Nick Honor (Mizzou) and Parker Stewart (UT Martin). Not so much are Walton, Strong and McIntosh (knee). Thiam is doing well at 15pg and 41% from 3 but more TO's than Assts. As we know, stats show very little about D performance.

The "what if's" are behind us but I sure hope that Ben will can bring in better than Cooper and Samuel, especially defenders for 2023."
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Would any of these guys have helped our PG situation? Larson and Honor maybe? Sessoms?

 

[Holy Man]

I looked back at one of my old Rivals posts last December about our lack of PG's.
**************************
" There were many who felt that our PG and SG position needs weren't met. This has been verified by what we have seen thus far this season.

What about the various players who were offered or visited? Guys like Michael Jones (Stanford), Josiah Strong (CSU), Ryan Larson (CoC), Sam Sessoms (Coppin St), Nick Honor (Mizzou), Cam Spenser (Rutgers), Isiah Thompson (FGCU), Hunter McIntosh (Nevada), Kerwin Walton (TT), Parker Stewart (UT Martin) and our TRF Thiam (High Point). The guys that have been among the most productive thus far are Cam Spenser (Rutgers) Sessoms (Coppin St.), Nick Honor (Mizzou) and Parker Stewart (UT Martin). Not so much are Walton, Strong and McIntosh (knee). Thiam is doing well at 15pg and 41% from 3 but more TO's than Assts. As we know, stats show very little about D performance.

The "what if's" are behind us but I sure hope that Ben will can bring in better than Cooper and Samuel, especially defenders for 2023."
****************************
Would any of these guys have helped our PG situation? Larson and Honor maybe? Sessoms?

I don't watch enough games or follow stats at all, but the only two that are popping out at me are Honor from Missouri (via Clemson, I think) and Spenser who ended up at Rutgers. That assessment is from limited observation and team relative success. There is a lot of perspective on our "point guard situation." I think Cooper is better than most give him credit for, but he does not have the quickness to cover high major point guards. I think the "point guard situation" is mostly on defense and would be helped substantially by upgraded quickness.

The fog of recruiting is that while we know who visits, and maybe those who get offers, we don't always know who the staff prioritizes, who says no to us or we say no to them. By most accounts here, Cooper was a priority, and he was highly regarded in the portal discussions.

There are a lot of names on that list, but we really don't know who the Gophers "really wanted" and who just spurned us. The fact that almost all of them ended up at less than high major says something about their ability and desire to get playing time after transfer.

 

[Gophers7633]

Putting Honor in place of Cooper and Spencer in place of Samuels/Henley makes this team so much better. Hopefully Ben can land some better guards in the portal this offseason.

 

[GopherOhana]

thought cbj was focused on trying to get tre, zakai zeigler or jayden pierre

 

[topos]

The one that kills me is Zakai Ziegler in Bens first summer as coach. he was under recruited, undersized, and only had a few offers (iirc). He visited in August and it it felt like we had a good chance to land him.

He ended up reclassifying and committing to Tennessee. As a sophomore he plays 30 minutes a game, 11 points, and 5 assists on a very good Tennessee team. He’s quick, defends, and has all the attributes of a true PG.

He would have been a massive building block. It still was promising the staff evaluated him and made him a priority when not many other schools did.

 

[Bad Gopher]

Spencer is the guy I said honest-to-goodness prayers about. He's been a difference maker at Rutgers. I'm with Holy Man, but the way I'd put it is that Cooper is both underrated and disappointing. Even though he's not quick, he's shown the ability to get to the basket. He'd be a fair backup on a good team. I sound like a broken record, but a point guard who can't make his free throws is a liability in a key way.

 

[Roland Brooks]

Larson would. He would not of crumbled handling the Iowa press. Not real big but quick enough and physical for his size… he is a gamer. I think they wanted him in a backup role.

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

I don't watch enough games or follow stats at all, but the only two that are popping out at me are Honor from Missouri (via Clemson, I think) and Spenser who ended up at Rutgers. That assessment is from limited observation and team relative success. There is a lot of perspective on our "point guard situation." I think Cooper is better than most give him credit for, but he does not have the quickness to cover high major point guards. I think the "point guard situation" is mostly on defense and would be helped substantially by upgraded quickness.

The fog of recruiting is that while we know who visits, and maybe those who get offers, we don't always know who the staff prioritizes, who says no to us or we say no to them. By most accounts here, Cooper was a priority, and he was highly regarded in the portal discussions.

There are a lot of names on that list, but we really don't know who the Gophers "really wanted" and who just spurned us. The fact that almost all of them ended up at less than high major says something about their ability and desire to get playing time after transfer.

Besides partaking in the portal, are there any HS spring recruits who might fit the bill?

 

[Holy Man]

thought cbj was focused on trying to get tre, zakai zeigler or jayden pierre

I think you might be a year behind with that list.

 

[Bayfieldgopher]

Spencer is the guy I said honest-to-goodness prayers about. He's been a difference maker at Rutgers. I'm with Holy Man, but the way I'd put it is that Cooper is both underrated and disappointing. Even though he's not quick, he's shown the ability to get to the basket. He'd be a fair backup on a good team. I sound like a broken record, but a point guard who can't make his free throws is a liability in a key way.

My biggest gripe about Cooper is lack of defense. After watching his tape from last year, this was a concern and its been justified. He just doesn't have to tools and sometimes I wonder about his intensity.

Many here were quick to dismiss Gabe. I knew he could be counted on to defend the others team best 2 or maybe 3.

 

[Holy Man]

Besides partaking, are there any HS spring recruits who might fit the bill?

People who consider themselves much smarter than me are never confident about spring high school recruits. There is always the occasional late blooming or recognized prospect or a decommit from somewhere else, but generally not a great source of game ready B1G players.

 

[Saber]

Agree with Holy Man. I like Cooper and I think he's under-appreciated on this board. Biggest problem is that he doesn't have a lot of great scoring options to work with, especially with first Battle and then Garcia being out for long stretches. He's an ok shooter and scorer, but if you look at his play before he joined the gophers, he was always very pass-first. Maybe that was just the system he was in previously, but he did a good job in that role and still does alright here, we just haven't had a lot of scorers for him to dish to.

Biggest problem is Samuels... guy plays hard, and we would be in even more trouble this year without him, but he's just not good enough to be playing as many minutes as he is here. And I like Christie a lot, but he isn't going to solve our problem either, as I feel his game is somewhat similar to Henley's, and Henley has been starting to come around recently. We still have a desperate need for another strong ball-handler and distributor, preferably one who can also shoot FT's.

But again, part of what makes it seem like our PG situation is worse than it is, is that we don't seem to have much of an offense. There is way too much standing around, and then jab step once or twice when receiving the ball, and very little ball movement. Part of that I'm sure is just that we're returning only something like 15% of our minutes from last year, but a lot of it has to be on Ben too. The total lack of anything resembling an offensive scheme is making our PG situation seem worse than it is.

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

People who consider themselves much smarter than me are never confident about spring high school recruits. There is always the occasional late blooming or recognized prospect or a decommit from somewhere else, but generally not a great source of game ready B1G players.

I was hoping for another Jordan Murphy gift

 

[Bayfieldgopher]

Spencer is the guy I said honest-to-goodness prayers about. He's been a difference maker at Rutgers. I'm with Holy Man, but the way I'd put it is that Cooper is both underrated and disappointing. Even though he's not quick, he's shown the ability to get to the basket. He'd be a fair backup on a good team. I sound like a broken record, but a point guard who can't make his free throws is a liability in a key way.

I felt the same about him. Spencer has been an awesome player for Rutgers both PG & SG. But Mulcahy has been the main guy at PG.

 

[Bad Gopher]

My biggest gripe about Cooper is lack of defense. After watching his tape from last year, this was a concern and its been justified. He just doesn't have to tools and sometimes I wonder about his intensity.

Many here were quick to dismiss Gabe. I knew he could be counted on to defend the others team best 2 or maybe 3.

Gabe at his best was another Austin Hollins. We were way better with him.

 

[howeda7]

I looked back at one of my old Rivals posts last December about our lack of PG's.
**************************
" There were many who felt that our PG and SG position needs weren't met. This has been verified by what we have seen thus far this season.

What about the various players who were offered or visited? Guys like Michael Jones (Stanford), Josiah Strong (CSU), Ryan Larson (CoC), Sam Sessoms (Coppin St), Nick Honor (Mizzou), Cam Spenser (Rutgers), Isiah Thompson (FGCU), Hunter McIntosh (Nevada), Kerwin Walton (TT), Parker Stewart (UT Martin) and our TRF Thiam (High Point). The guys that have been among the most productive thus far are Cam Spenser (Rutgers) Sessoms (Coppin St.), Nick Honor (Mizzou) and Parker Stewart (UT Martin). Not so much are Walton, Strong and McIntosh (knee). Thiam is doing well at 15pg and 41% from 3 but more TO's than Assts. As we know, stats show very little about D performance.

The "what if's" are behind us but I sure hope that Ben will can bring in better than Cooper and Samuel, especially defenders for 2023."
****************************
Would any of these guys have helped our PG situation? Larson and Honor maybe? Sessoms?

Tough to out-recruit College of Charleston and Coppin State I guess.

 

[Holy Man]

Tough to out-recruit College of Charleston and Coppin State I guess.

Especially when the guys are looking for 35 minutes a game that they can dominate. I’m disappointed with the staff’s inability to recruit in areas of need, but portal recruiting is a different bird. Sessoms would be far better here than what we have, but he also did the high major thing for three years and probably thought playing at a lower level and I think closer to home was better for him. I wouldn’t call that being out recruited by Coppin.

 

[EasyThere Pilgrim]

Tough to out-recruit College of Charleston and Coppin State I guess.

LOL to hear you talk about recruiting. As if you have the patience to care about it.

 

[Ghos345]

Especially when the guys are looking for 35 minutes a game that they can dominate. I’m disappointed with the staff’s inability to recruit in areas of need, but portal recruiting is a different bird. Sessoms would be far better here than what we have, but he also did the high major thing for three years and probably thought playing at a lower level and I think closer to home was better for him. I wouldn’t call that being out recruited by Coppin.

The disappointing thing is how the guards dribble at the top of the key for half of shot clock to slow down the game and it puts everyone else in a tough situation once they get the ball. It is apparent the impact it has had on Battle game this season.

 

[Holy Man]

Gabe at his best was another Austin Hollins. We were way better with him.

Comparing their Gopher careers, I think Hollins was far more consistent than Gabe was. Adding Gabe's ISU career may even it out a bit more though.

 

[cjbfbp]

Tough to out-recruit College of Charleston and Coppin State I guess.

For some reason, Sessoms seemed bound and determined to go to Coppin. He even tweeted for people not to criticize his choice. Regarding Larson, I think he was just happy with his life in South Carolina; probably friends or significant other and maybe the weather played a part after spending most of his life in Minnesota. There certainly are worse places to spend the last year of your eligibility than Charleston. Turned out to be a great choice for team success too as they're having one of the best years in their D1 history.

 

[Bayfieldgopher]

For some reason, Sessoms seemed bound and determined to go to Coppin. He even tweeted for people not to criticize his choice. Regarding Larson, I think he was just happy with his life in South Carolina; probably friends or significant other and maybe the weather played a part after spending most of his life in Minnesota. There certainly are worse places to spend the last year of your eligibility than Charleston. Turned out to be a great choice for team success too as they're having one of the best years in their D1 history.

Sessoms committed to Coach Juan Dixon, not just the school, and said it was as easy decisions for him. Plus they were a winning program at the time.

Larson and his girl friend were not leaving the Southeast.

 

[Bayfieldgopher]

Tough to out-recruit College of Charleston and Coppin State I guess.

Larson wanted to stay in the SE area and Sessoms said he committed to their coach and not the school.

 

[MNVCGUY]

If you look at Cooper's stats they are remarkably similar to his numbers at Moorhead State. The only real gripe that is fair about Cooper is the horrible free throw numbers, outside of that he has been pretty solid across the board.

Failing to land another transfer guard capable of logging big minutes alongside him was unfortunate. Samuels is what he is, he isn't the type that should be counted on for big minutes but due to injuries and lack of guard depth he has been forced to play a bigger role.

 

[bga1]

If you look at Cooper's stats they are remarkably similar to his numbers at Moorhead State. The only real gripe that is fair about Cooper is the horrible free throw numbers, outside of that he has been pretty solid across the board.

Failing to land another transfer guard capable of logging big minutes alongside him was unfortunate. Samuels is what he is, he isn't the type that should be counted on for big minutes but due to injuries and lack of guard depth he has been forced to play a bigger role.

So - we all agree that he is what he is. He's just not quick enough to be a starting PG in the Big Ten.
Solid? Yeah he has been steady at the level he is at. Isn't it unanimous that a really good PG would solve a fair number of this team's issues? If we had a good one, Battle, Garcia, Payne and Henley would all be put in better positions to succeed as a result. Our defense might look a little better as well.

 

[MNVCGUY]

So - we all agree that he is what he is. He's just not quick enough to be a starting PG in the Big Ten.
Solid? Yeah he has been steady at the level he is at. Isn't it unanimous that a really good PG would solve a fair number of this team's issues? If we had a good one, Battle, Garcia, Payne and Henley would all be put in better positions to succeed as a result. Our defense might look a little better as well.

Cooper has had some struggles but he was a good pickup and lots of teams were after him in the portal so tough to fault the coaching staff for that one.

If Cooper had an off guard who could take on more of the load that would be huge for this team. Carrington needs more time to develop and Samuels is s role player. Unfortunately they weren't able to find that guy who could really compliment Cooper's game.

 

[forever a gopher]

Cooper has had some struggles but he was a good pickup and lots of teams were after him in the portal so tough to fault the coaching staff for that one.

If Cooper had an off guard who could take on more of the load that would be huge for this team. Carrington needs more time to develop and Samuels is s role player. Unfortunately they weren't able to find that guy who could really compliment Cooper's game.

My problem with the situation isn't necessarily Cooper himself. He is a solid player that is a good distributor and is a decent shooter. However, he's extremely slow for a no. 1 PG and has almost no ability to initiate a fast break (hence the Gophers being dead last in the B1G in fast break points). It became very obvious what kind of player he was after watching him for maybe 2 games, and I'm no basketball scout with years of experience.

If you look at the other PG's that were offered and where they ended up, (IMO) it becomes obvious that they were a.) told either they'd be sharing PG duties, b.) told they'd be backing up Cooper, or c.) were straight up told to look elsewhere after the Cooper commit. There is no way with where those other viable players ended up that we couldn't have gotten at least one of them to sign on and be a 20min/game B1G player. Cooper committed on April 20th and Samuels committed on May 9th (after being in the portal since March 8th). The way the chips fell, I firmly believe CBJ thought Cooper was "the guy", and then tried to get an off-guard to fill the other spot. It is extremely likely that if CBJ wanted another PG to fill 20ish mins/game he could have gotten one. I do not think he "swung and missed"; I think his/his coaches misevaluated the situation and proceeded poorly. I really don't think it's a recruiting miss, I think it's an evaluation/roster mismanagement miss, which is much more damning.

The guards on this roster: PG Cooper, SG Samuels, SG Carrington, SG Ramberg.

So they have a single PG who is slow, a SG in Samuels that should really be a spot-minute guy, maybe 5mins/game, Ramberg who really should be playing in mop-up duty, and a true freshman who isn't some 5-star guy that can come in and log extensive minutes and contribute big immediately. Between 2 positions (80 mins total), realistically those guys should be totaling about 35 mins (20 Cooper, 5 Samuels, 10 Carrington). Maybe if you're generous and say Henley can play the 2, that would add another 10-15mins. That's not just "missing on a guy", that is a massive roster blunder.

So then how is this situation going to resolve itself in 2023/24? Samuels is out, Ramberg goes back to walk-on. Christie comes in. Unless somebody is forced out, next season likely won't be much better. What if TT sticks to his guns and doesn't want to leave? Who is shown the door? At this point, Ben has to pin all his hopes on forcing somebody out and finding a legit PG in the portal, or we're in the same situation next year due to roster mismanagement yet again.

 

[MNVCGUY]

My problem with the situation isn't necessarily Cooper himself. He is a solid player that is a good distributor and is a decent shooter. However, he's extremely slow for a no. 1 PG and has almost no ability to initiate a fast break (hence the Gophers being dead last in the B1G in fast break points). It became very obvious what kind of player he was after watching him for maybe 2 games, and I'm no basketball scout with years of experience.

If you look at the other PG's that were offered and where they ended up, (IMO) it becomes obvious that they were a.) told either they'd be sharing PG duties, b.) told they'd be backing up Cooper, or c.) were straight up told to look elsewhere after the Cooper commit. There is no way with where those other viable players ended up that we couldn't have gotten at least one of them to sign on and be a 20min/game B1G player. Cooper committed on April 20th and Samuels committed on May 9th (after being in the portal since March 8th). The way the chips fell, I firmly believe CBJ thought Cooper was "the guy", and then tried to get an off-guard to fill the other spot. It is extremely likely that if CBJ wanted another PG to fill 20ish mins/game he could have gotten one. I do not think he "swung and missed"; I think his/his coaches misevaluated the situation and proceeded poorly. I really don't think it's a recruiting miss, I think it's an evaluation/roster mismanagement miss, which is much more damning.

The guards on this roster: PG Cooper, SG Samuels, SG Carrington, SG Ramberg.

So they have a single PG who is slow, a SG in Samuels that should really be a spot-minute guy, maybe 5mins/game, Ramberg who really should be playing in mop-up duty, and a true freshman who isn't some 5-star guy that can come in and log extensive minutes and contribute big immediately. Between 2 positions (80 mins total), realistically those guys should be totaling about 35 mins (20 Cooper, 5 Samuels, 10 Carrington). Maybe if you're generous and say Henley can play the 2, that would add another 10-15mins. That's not just "missing on a guy", that is a massive roster blunder.

So then how is this situation going to resolve itself in 2023/24? Samuels is out, Ramberg goes back to walk-on. Christie comes in. Unless somebody is forced out, next season likely won't be much better. What if TT sticks to his guns and doesn't want to leave? Who is shown the door? At this point, Ben has to pin all his hopes on forcing somebody out and finding a legit PG in the portal, or we're in the same situation next year due to roster mismanagement yet again.

Don't really disagree with anything you said there. As for next year's roster....that will be the million dollar question in the off season.

Something will have to give in the Garcia, Payne, Evans, Battle, Henley, Fox, Ihnen, JOJ, Thompson mix as that is just too many front court guys and not enough quality minutes to go around.

Gut feeling is that Garcia, Payne, Evans, JOJ, Henley all come back
Battle is probably back.
Thompson is almost certainly gone
Fox & Ihnen are massive wild cards - 1 or both is probably not back next season.

Going to be an interesting off season because Johnson will be under a lot of pressure to start showing that things are moving in the right direction after 2 rough seasons.

 

[Off-GridTNgopher]

Zigler was the miss... Kids tearing it up down here in TN

 

[Holy Man]

So - we all agree that he is what he is. He's just not quick enough to be a starting PG in the Big Ten.
Solid? Yeah he has been steady at the level he is at. Isn't it unanimous that a really good PG would solve a fair number of this team's issues? If we had a good one, Battle, Garcia, Payne and Henley would all be put in better positions to succeed as a result. Our defense might look a little better as well.

I’m not sure it’s unanimous about the “really good point guard” resolving most issues. Cooper is taking too much of the blame and I think you’re giving too much credit to the other guys. The jury is still out on them I think.