Gophers vs West Virginia in Guaranteed Rate Bowl

[PMWinSTP]

This would mean that the Citrus could've selected us, since we would've been within one win of Iowa.


Do you buy that? Neither do I. There's more to the story.

Doesn't Iowa have 2 more wins than Gophers?

 

[cjbfbp]

Penn State has a better "brand" but in the end these teams are made up of 18-22 year old kids.

Also, Penn State has been amply rewarded for that brand in the past. Each year should be unique. Otherwise, you are perennially a first or second class citizen unless somehow you break out to have an extended period of success long enough to move you ahead of some of those in first class.

 

[cjbfbp]

Doesn't Iowa have 2 more wins than Gophers?

Yes

 

[USAF]

might be cheaper just to hang out in vegas and basically do a day trip to phx for the game. flights to/from vegas/phx are cheap - maybe even cheaper than the daily rental car rate in vegas. and, you don't have to worry about driving through flagstaff in winter. flagstaff can get heaps of snow.

Don't go through Flagstaff. 93 down from Boulder City through Kingman to Wickenburg, 60 over to west Phoenix, 303 down to I10. Drive used to be awful, now it's pretty easy. Don't have to go over the Hoover Dam, 4 lane most of the way, with passing lanes where it's still 2 lane. 4.5 hours if you take your time.

Nobody local would go to Flagstaff and down.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Stick to facts and wait til the bowl game is over.

But that doesn't appease the angry fans now.....they need to feel validated now.

The article posted earlier in this thread lays it out well. There is more to it than record and like it or not we are not seen as a marquee name in the Big Ten. We are more so now than we were a few years ago but still have a ways to go in order to catchup to the top tier names in the conference. Penn State didn't "deserve" the Outback bowl, but I understand why they got it.

Showing up for the home games would be a great first step to changing the narrative about Minnesota.

 

[stocker08]

Also, Penn State has been amply rewarded for that brand in the past. Each year should be unique. Otherwise, you are perennially a first or second class citizen unless somehow you break out to have an extended period of success long enough to move you ahead of some of those in first class.

Just an all around bad precedent to set. The Gophers went 8-4 (6-3 in B10) while PSU went 7-5 (4-5 in the Big Ten). They ended up getting rewarded with a New Year's Day bowl game against a ranked opponent. The Gophers get a low tier bowl game against a West Virginia team that needed a si point victory over Kansas just to get bowl eligible.

Ok. It is what it is at this point. But Coyle needs to be asking questions about this. Bowl games are a reward for a teams accomplishments. The "helmet" schools shouldn't be given better rewards for lesser accomplishments. It should be merit based and on a level playing field. If it's not....the stratification of the league will continue as is. And if the higher tier bowl games continue to prefer the helmet schools over the middling teams....Warren and other Big Ten folks need to step up and rethink their bowl affiliations.

 

[FormerFatOL]

Random thought - would it be cheaper to rent a motor home and drive down?

I've never rented a motor home, but I would think the cost of rental and gas is still less than the cost of a plane ticket and hotel room.

Or maybe a family member has a motor home that you could borrow for a few days?

It would not be cheaper. At 6 to 9 mpg and 3,300 miles round trip with no detours, you'd be using 400-500 gallons of gas round trip, so say $1,500 in gas alone. You'd have rental on top of that and they're [not] cheap, probably at least $2,000 per week. Add in night RV park fees during the AZ prime time probably $50-100 per night.

That said, I own a motorhome and would consider it if I had more time. It would be almost a 2-week trip minimum considering it would be a 3-day drive each way in a slow RV.

edit add: I see someone already responded.

 

[FormerFatOL]

This bowl was the payback for being upgraded to the Citrus Bowl a few years ago.

 

[BarnBurner]

Also, Penn State has been amply rewarded for that brand in the past. Each year should be unique. Otherwise, you are perennially a first or second class citizen unless somehow you break out to have an extended period of success long enough to move you ahead of some of those in first class.

The methods employed keep Mn in its place. By design.

 

[disco]

It would not be cheaper. At 6 to 9 mpg and 3,300 miles round trip with no detours, you'd be using 400-500 gallons of gas round trip, so say $1,500 in gas alone. You'd have rental on top of that and they're cheap, probably at least $2,000 per week. Add in night RV park fees during the AZ prime time probably $50-100 per night.

That said, I own a motorhome and would consider it if I had more time. It would be almost a 2-week trip minimum considering it would be a 3-day drive each way in a slow RV.

edit add: I see someone already responded.

Plus you still have the uncertainty of weather this time of year. It would suck to be stranded in an ice storm in Kansas.

 

[disco]

Sun Country literally just did this for the MN United playoff game in Portland.

I'm betting they come through for us again.

That's good to hear!

 

[MGGopher]

this article on "The Daily Gopher" is the best summary I have seen on the factors that go into bowl placement. (warning - length)

The bowls don’t pick their Big Ten teams in a free for all anymore. The Big Ten has built a tiered system that helps keep things a little more mixed up. It’s been this way since the College Football Playoff started in 2014.


The system the Big Ten implemented prioritizes variety in bowl destinations, generally requiring the non-New Years Six bowls affiliated with the conference to feature 5 different Big Ten teams over a 6 year window.* They also work to make sure that non-conference rematches don’t occur in bowl games. And yes, in general, they make sure teams don’t get hopped by schools with inferior seasons. For the purposes of the Big Ten’s criteria, that’s generally meant you don’t get hopped by a team with 2 fewer wins than you. However, head to head wins don’t mean anything.

This process has benefited the Gophers in the past. Under the old bowl pecking order, there’s no way (let me say again, NO WAY) the Gophers play Missouri in the Citrus Bowl as an 8-4 team in 2014 without this process. It kept them from getting hopped by Iowa for the Outback back in 2019. It will benefit the Gophers in the future.

Unfortunately, this is a season where it hurt Minnesota. In the Big Ten this year, the basic breakdown of the bowl eligible teams was as follows:

• Michigan - CFB Playoff bound
• Ohio State, Iowa, Michigan State - The best of the rest
• Minnesota, Wisconsin, Purdue - The middle of the pack
• Penn State (7-5) and Maryland (6-6), The remaining teams

The “two more wins” rule meant that no one in the middle tier was going to hop OSU, Iowa, or MSU. Though to be fair, no bowl in their right mind would have selected any of the middle tier over those teams this season anyway. However, that guideline DID NOT protect Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Purdue from Penn State.
The Outback Bowl. You might be wondering, why would the Outback Bowl want Penn State anyway? Well, perhaps it’s the fact that Penn State has not been to the Outback Bowl since 2011. Yep. A full decade. Sorry, but bowl’s gonna bowl with that sort of thing. This is where I hear people talk about PSU not “deserving it” over Minnesota and.......well, sorry. I’m not buying that. Why? Because none of the teams with more B1G wins than Penn State in the middle tier deserve the Outback. 8-4 unranked teams don’t have a lot to hang their hats on. Certainly not enough to complain about being jumped by a blue blood who hasn’t been there in a decade.

The Music City Bowl. I can hear the complaints now. “But Purdue was just there in 2018! And Minnesota beat Purdue at Purdue. It’s not fair!” Please stop. You’re embarrassing yourself. The Music City bowl does not care that Minnesota beat Purdue at the beginning of October. They are about butts in the seats. Purdue gave the Music City Bowl it’s 3rd best attended game of the past decade in 2018 due to their proximity to the site. The only two games to draw more fans were Notre Dame/LSU in 2014 (barely more fans) and Nebraska/Tennessee in 2016. It should shock NO ONE that the Music City Bowl picked the driveable Big Ten option to face off against in state SEC opponent Tennessee. Minnesota has proven that Gophers fans will travel. But if you’re the Music City Bowl you’re taking Purdue fans who live within driving distance and haven’t had a bowl to go to in 3 years over the Gophers every time. Will it pay off? I don’t know, but the blazers are predictable.

The Las Vegas Bowl. This one is simple. Wisconsin has never been there. They travel well. I can hear y’all punching up your “but Minnesota sold X tickets to the Outback Bowl in 2019” numbers but I’m sorry, whatever good work Minnesota has done is in recent years. Wisconsin fans have a longer history and haven’t been to this bowl site. And reminder. HEAD TO HEAD DOES NOT MATTER TO A BOWL. The blazers are predictable, so while it sucks, it happens.

The Pinstripe Bowl. This is the ultimately expression of the bad luck Minnesota has this season. West Virginia was the Big 12 representative to the Guaranteed Rate Bowl. WVU played Maryland in the non-conference. That means that even though Minnesota should be protected from Maryland hopping them this season, the Big Ten was going to make sure that the Yankee Bowl got Maryland instead of Minnesota. The system that helped the Gophers in 2014 and 2019 screwed them in 2021.

• The bowl selection process isn’t about fairness above all else. If you think it should be, then please prepare to be #madonline forever. Also please do it away from me because you sound silly not being able to acknowledge reality.
• The system the Big Ten has put in place makes things more fair, especially for schools like Minnesota whose history of “traveling for games” is more recent.
• The system still gives flexibility that can mean you get skipped, because this is still about money, TV matchups, and avoiding bad pairings.

Two things:

1. Appreciate the article. Rational and well-written. I agree with and appreciate the reminder that the new "system" has benefitted MN twice now -- and probably will in the future. But it failed this year. This year's "process" harkened back to the 2000s when bowls took whoever they wanted and routinely skipped teams like MN who are perceived as not traveling. The author saying "the suits are predictable" explains it, but doesn't make it right.
2. I listened to a little more of the GG podcast at lunch and Burns intimated he's heard whispers that MN preferred Phoenix over a "couple destinations" (probably Nashville and NYC) and made that known to bowl reps. He couldn't confirm this, but he's heard it enough that he put it out there. I'm not sure how to feel about that.

 

[disco]

... listened to a little more of the GG podcast at lunch and Burns intimated he's heard whispers that MN preferred Phoenix over a "couple destinations" (probably Nashville and NYC) and made that known to bowl reps. He couldn't confirm this, but he's heard it enough that he put it out there. I'm not sure how to feel about that.

It wouldn't surprise me since there are so many snowbirds there and weather-wise, it would be better. But they couldn't have anticipated how insanely expensive flights are.

 

[Some guy]

The conference plays favorites.

What’s your point? Should we drop out?

Just an all around bad precedent to set. The Gophers went 8-4 (6-3 in B10) while PSU went 7-5 (4-5 in the Big Ten). They ended up getting rewarded with a New Year's Day bowl game against a ranked opponent. The Gophers get a low tier bowl game against a West Virginia team that needed a si point victory over Kansas just to get bowl eligible.

Ok. It is what it is at this point. But Coyle needs to be asking questions about this. Bowl games are a reward for a teams accomplishments. The "helmet" schools shouldn't be given better rewards for lesser accomplishments. It should be merit based and on a level playing field. If it's not....the stratification of the league will continue as is. And if the higher tier bowl games continue to prefer the helmet schools over the middling teams....Warren and other Big Ten folks need to step up and rethink their bowl affiliations.

the conference literally followed their bowl placement criteria to a T

Nobody jumped a team with 2 more wins than them. Nobody repeated bowl placement. Nobody playing a rematch.

gophers 0-3 against the teams Penn state 0-5 against.
Had Minnesota beaten bowling green, they’d have two more wins than Penn state and would be going to Outback.

 

[Some guy]

Two things:

1. Appreciate the article. Rational and well-written. I agree with and appreciate the reminder that the new "system" has benefitted MN twice now -- and probably will in the future. But it failed this year. This year's "process" harkened back to the 2000s when bowls took whoever they wanted and routinely skipped teams like MN who are perceived as not traveling. The author saying "the suits are predictable" explains it, but doesn't make it right.
2. I listened to a little more of the GG podcast at lunch and Burns intimated he's heard whispers that MN preferred Phoenix over a "couple destinations" (probably Nashville and NYC) and made that known to bowl reps. He couldn't confirm this, but he's heard it enough that he put it out there. I'm not sure how to feel about that.

100%
Out admin probably wanted:
1) Tampa
2) Phoenix or Nashville
4) vegas
5) New York

 

[MaxyJR1]

Based on weather and COVID levels, going to nice Phoenix sounds better than New York or Nashville this time of year.

New York Projected 40
Nashville projected 48
Las Vegas projected 56
Phoenix projected 64

The U is going to push for moving around and hitting alumni bases in Arizona, Florida, and California when possible.

 

[Some guy]

Based on weather and COVID levels, going to nice Phoenix sounds better than New York or Nashville this time of year.

New York Projected 40
Nashville projected 48
Las Vegas projected 56
Phoenix projected 64

The U is going to push for moving around and hitting alumni bases in Arizona, Florida, and California when possible.

For sure: anyone whining about Maryland getting New York is out to lunch.

New York is a worse bowl game than Detroit

 

[FormerFatOL]

What’s your point? Should we drop out?

the conference literally followed their bowl placement criteria to a T

Nobody jumped a team with 2 more wins than them. Nobody repeated bowl placement. Nobody playing a rematch.

gophers 0-3 against the teams Penn state 0-5 against.
Had Minnesota beaten bowling green, they’d have two more wins than Penn state and would be going to Outback.

The part that still irks me is Penn State being the first Outback participant with a losing BG10 record. It diminishes the Outback Bowl's reputation in my mind. Regardless, Phoenix is still better than Nashville or New York in late December.

 

[FormerFatOL]

For sure: anyone whining about Maryland getting New York is out to lunch.

New York is a worse bowl game than Detroit

Agreed. Especially now.

 

[Some guy]

The part that still irks me is Penn State being the first Outback participant with a losing BG10 record. It diminishes the Outback Bowl's reputation in my mind. Regardless, Phoenix is still better than Nashville or New York in late December.

The difference between 4-4 (which they have selected before) and 4-5 is they went 1-2 against the big ten west instead of 1-1

and they played one fewer cupcake

“they’ve never taken a under .500 big ten team” is a true claim. But this isn’t the worst team they’ve ever taken. It is pretty much the same kind of team they took when they took 4-4 teams befoee

 

[Some guy]

Agreed. Especially now.

And even in good times, if I’m in New York I’m not wasting 6 hours on getting to and from a football game in the Bronx to see two average football teams while in New York.

It’s like going to London to watch a jaguars vs Texans game

 

[stocker08]

What’s your point? Should we drop out?

the conference literally followed their bowl placement criteria to a T

Nobody jumped a team with 2 more wins than them. Nobody repeated bowl placement. Nobody playing a rematch.

gophers 0-3 against the teams Penn state 0-5 against.
Had Minnesota beaten bowling green, they’d have two more wins than Penn state and would be going to Outback.

Where did I say that they didn't follow the criteria? I stated that they play favorites and didn't award teams based on merit. Argue it all you want. But you are pissing in the wind trying to argue that a 7-5 (4-5) Penn State team is more deserving than an 8-4 (6-3) Minnesota team.

You're simply wrong.

 

[USAF]

New York is a worse bowl game than Detroit

Sure, except for the payout, the date, the prestige, and the location.

The Pinstripe payout is more than double the Quicklane.

Man, you consistently come up with the worst takes on this board.

 

[disco]

Sure, except for the payout, the date, the prestige, and the location.

The Pinstripe payout is more than double the Quicklane.

Man, you consistently come up with the worst takes on this board.

And the Quicklane payout is better than the Guaranteed Rate bowl.

But honestly, I would far rather sit in a warm dome in Detroit than outside in the Bronx in late December.

 

[Some guy]

Where did I say that they didn't follow the criteria? I stated that they play favorites and didn't award teams based on merit. Argue it all you want. But you are pissing in the wind trying to argue that a 7-5 (4-5) Penn State team is more deserving than an 8-4 (6-3) Minnesota team.

You're simply wrong.

I never said Penn state was more deserving.
They’re equally as undeserving

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

Based on weather and COVID levels, going to nice Phoenix sounds better than New York or Nashville this time of year.

New York Projected 40
Nashville projected 48
Las Vegas projected 56
Phoenix projected 64

The U is going to push for moving around and hitting alumni bases in Arizona, Florida, and California when possible.

Maybe they do but man I really don't buy into the idea that having a game somewhere really makes a difference in ... what donations? T-shirt sales enough to bother dorking with where you play a bowl game.

We're talking about the U, a place where I emailed asking about giving on give to the max day and they didn't even respond I'm doubting the usefulness of moving bowl games.

 

[howeda7]

And the Quicklane payout is better than the Guaranteed Rate bowl.

Seriously? Why? Also, doesn't the B1G pool all Bowl $ beyond expenses, so does the payout really matter?

 

[disco]

Seriously? Why? Also, doesn't the B1G pool all Bowl $ beyond expenses, so does the payout really matter?

The site I saw had the Quick Lane at $2 million, and the G. Rate at $1,625 million.

Yes, the B1G shares all postseason revenue equally. I just thought it was interesting. If prestige is based on payouts, then the Rate would be the lowest of all the B1G bowls and we should actually be playing in Detroit instead against WMU. (which would make for a more interesting story really)

 

[A_Slab_of_Bacon]

Whoever flies into Vegas and drives to Phoenix, make it a point to take a little detour and make a stop in Jerome, AZ. You'll love it. In fact, make it an overnight stay. Actually, stay at the Connor Hotel and say hi to the ghost who opened our hotel room door as we were getting ready to go to dinner.

Bad Gopher is totally not a vampire who specializes in football fans trying to bring victims to his hotel ...


/s

 

[Roland Brooks]

Sun Country literally just did this for the MN United playoff game in Portland.

I'm betting they come through for us again.

Might be tougher their private charters will be flying 15-20 NCAA teams during the bowl seasons… they fly more hours for the NCAA than any other airline. The U of M themselves have multiple planes booked… players, fans, donors the band.. SC private charters