Gophers football missing many in-state recruits, but impact falls in gray area

Donate To GopherHole
BleedGopher

BleedGopher

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Messages
60,802
Reaction score
16,235
Points
113
per Greder:

“Minnesota is in a tough position because they just don’t have the depth of talent in their backyard to really build a foundation off of, so it is crucial to hit on a high percentage of in-state guys,” Rivals.com Midwest recruiting analyst Josh Helmholdt said. “Wisconsin does that better than any team in probably the country. I think that has been the reason for the Badgers’ success over the last few years. Minnesota needs to start hitting on a higher percentage.”

www.grandforksherald.com

Gophers football missing many in-state recruits, but impact falls in gray area

In the five classes since Fleck came to Minnesota, 60% of the top-six ranked recruits have left the state to play college ball.
www.grandforksherald.com www.grandforksherald.com

Go Gophers!!
 

BleedGopher said:
per Greder:

“Minnesota is in a tough position because they just don’t have the depth of talent in their backyard to really build a foundation off of, so it is crucial to hit on a high percentage of in-state guys,” Rivals.com Midwest recruiting analyst Josh Helmholdt said. “Wisconsin does that better than any team in probably the country. I think that has been the reason for the Badgers’ success over the last few years. Minnesota needs to start hitting on a higher percentage.”

Go Gophers!!
Click to expand...

This is nonsense.
 

Well they have to want to play here. Its increasingly rare to keep top shelf talent in state.
 

Wanting to be a Gopher like Eastern, Lindenberg and Purcell, is a big deal. PJ Fleck also espouses good fit.

Sure, they will recruit out of state to make up for the lose in state talent. More often, they are very successful recently at replacing them. The Gophers want impact players too. They excelled at talent development and deployment which attract players that have potential to excel and even make the Pros.

Until the Gophers win a few titles, this will be way things are. Even then, you can't stop a player for wanting to go Stanford or other schools of their dream.

I don't see a problem attracting players if they put more players in the NFL every year. Last year, they had five. This gets noticed.
 
Last edited:

Fleck knows he needs to do better, but that will come with time. As he said yesterday they hit on "3" of top 8 in-state and got a Top 10 from 5 other states.

Could have been a slip up on the 3rd.
 


If we get better it won't largely be because of in state recruits... there just aren't enough to really change a P5 team's destiny.

If we get better ... we'll probably get more in state recruits ;)

The whole fretting over in state recruits is the egg that will hatch after we get to where we want to be already.
 

A_Slab_of_Bacon said:
If we get better it won't largely be because of in state recruits... there just aren't enough to really change a P5 team's destiny.

If we get better ... we'll probably get more in state recruits ;)

The whole fretting over in state recruits is the egg that will hatch after we get to where we want to be already.
Click to expand...

I agree. It will come with winning and putting kids in the NFL at certain positions. Look at Iowa State. Their top two kids in this year's class are the 10th and 13th kid in Iowa. Now that might have to do with Iowa kids wanting to play in the B1G over B12, but Wis. Neb. and K-State got higher kids out of Iowa.
 

Stop this bogus line of made up, strawman, BS-type article.

As the Daily Gopher says: "It’s a question built on the false premise that an elite program convinces most, if not all of the state’s top talent to stay home. But not every kid grows up wanting to play for the hometown team. In fact, there are many who see college as an opportunity to spread their wings and get away from home."
 




BleedGopher said:
per Greder:

“Minnesota is in a tough position because they just don’t have the depth of talent in their backyard to really build a foundation off of, so it is crucial to hit on a high percentage of in-state guys,” Rivals.com Midwest recruiting analyst Josh Helmholdt said. “Wisconsin does that better than any team in probably the country. I think that has been the reason for the Badgers’ success over the last few years. Minnesota needs to start hitting on a higher percentage.”

www.grandforksherald.com

Gophers football missing many in-state recruits, but impact falls in gray area

In the five classes since Fleck came to Minnesota, 60% of the top-six ranked recruits have left the state to play college ball.
www.grandforksherald.com www.grandforksherald.com

Go Gophers!!
Click to expand...

Okay, so I looked at this year's roster and my rough, unscientific count had 38 Minnesotans on the team this year.

And in the past three recruiting classes, he's signed two, three and three Minnesotans (not counting walk-ons). Could there be a higher number? sure. But if he's still attracting high-quality talent from around the country (which he is) and also getting instate kids that can contribute, I'm not sure why he needs to focus more on in-state recruiting.

Minnesota isn't traditionally a football hotbed and honestly, I'm not sure that grabbing one or two of the other legitimate players Minnesota produces yearly is going to all of the sudden vault the Gophers into a top-10 program, like is implied with the Wisconsin comment. I know the Badgers have done well with instate lineman over the years, but the vast majority of their top talent comes from outside of Wisconsin.

Maybe somebody has a better handle of the level of high school talent in Minnesota, but my view has always been that if a guy can play, recruit him regardless of his area of residence. So I'm fine with P.J.'s recruiting, especially if he continues to bring classes like this one regularly.

But, it's just my opinion, so take it for what it is.
 


I suppose the line of thinking is, "you have a better shot at landing any player of a given ability level if they are in state," which probably has some truth to it. I'm sure there will be chatter about the 2023 TE going to the U, whereas we don't really discuss any out of state 5 star recruits.

But that doesn't imply that your best shot of landing A highly ranked recruit is in state, because such an overwhelming majority of the potential candidates are from elsewhere.
 

RememberMurray said:
I've always been under the impression that you need great players, and the more you have the better your record, in general.

If a kid is a great player, what difference does it make what state he hails from?
Click to expand...

This...so much this.

Would we love to see all the top talent stay home every year? Of course, but the reality is that all the staff can do is recruit the kid, if they do the best they can and the kid chooses to go somewhere else that isn't the staffs fault.

If someone could prove that Fleck was intentionally not recruiting the handful of power 5 level players in this state in a given year that would be one thing. But by all indications that is not the case.

In the end all that really matters is that you find a class of players that want to be here and can help the program. It doesn't matter one bit where those kids come from.
 



It's more of an image or optics thing.

In the real world, you're not going to land all of the best players in your state. especially today, with video and social media, there are no secrets. If there is a good player in Duluth or Owatonna, everyone in the country will know about it. Once upon a time, those players may not have gathered national attention, and it might have been easier to get them to sign with MN.

but, regardless of the circumstances, when you hear that "the #1 recruit in MN is going to Wisconsin," or "the #2 recruit in MN is going to Notre Dame," at least some people will see that as a reflection on the MN program.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
It's more of an image or optics thing.

In the real world, you're not going to land all of the best players in your state. especially today, with video and social media, there are no secrets. If there is a good player in Duluth or Owatonna, everyone in the country will know about it. Once upon a time, those players may not have gathered national attention, and it might have been easier to get them to sign with MN.

but, regardless of the circumstances, when you hear that "the #1 recruit in MN is going to Wisconsin," or "the #2 recruit in MN is going to Notre Dame," at least some people will see that as a reflection on the MN program.
Click to expand...

You're right. Per usual, that's a solid take, SON.

I guess what I was trying to express is: if we have just had one of the best recruiting years ever at Minnesota (which we just did, based on rankings) and the recruiting trends under Fleck has been positive (which they have been), then why fixate on a 'negative' that is, in my mind, of dubious value in assessing the program?

Why do some people always look for the downside, even to the point of coming up with a 'problem' that isn't of any real importance to the end product on the field? PLEASE NOTE: I'm not talking about you, SON.

We signed many quality players, who appear to be good fits for our culture and our program. That's the goal in recruiting. Mission accomplished!
 

RememberMurray said:
Why do some people always look for the downside, even to the point of coming up with a 'problem' that isn't of any real importance to the end product on the field? PLEASE NOTE: I'm not talking about you, SON.

We signed many quality players, who appear to be good fits for our culture and our program. That's the goal in recruiting. Mission accomplished!
Click to expand...

So true when we picked up what look like a good class.

I guess we could bump up our MN numbers by ... taking some other guys, but I don't think we want that.

I like that Johnson was from around here... that was a nice bonus... but I wouldn't have wanted them to spend extra time locally when they should have been talking to Bateman...
 

In Fleck's presser, he made a few interesting comments about how COVID has impacted recruiting. He said that, in a strange way, it seems to have brought this class of recruits closer together.

He mentioned in particular Steven Ortiz's family, and how they organized a get-together for the recruits in Florida (even though the Ortiz family lives in Arizona). It reminded me of the stories about Carter Coughlin's family cabin.
 

RememberMurray said:
In Fleck's presser, he made a few interesting comments about how COVID has impacted recruiting. He said that, in a strange way, it seems to have brought this class of recruits closer together.

He mentioned in particular Steven Ortiz's family, and how they organized a get-together for the recruits in Florida (even though the Ortiz family lives in Arizona). It reminded me of the stories about Carter Coughlin's family cabin.
Click to expand...


So who in 2022 has a vacation place or something?
 

MNVCGUY said:
This...so much this.

Would we love to see all the top talent stay home every year? Of course, but the reality is that all the staff can do is recruit the kid, if they do the best they can and the kid chooses to go somewhere else that isn't the staffs fault.

If someone could prove that Fleck was intentionally not recruiting the handful of power 5 level players in this state in a given year that would be one thing. But by all indications that is not the case.

In the end all that really matters is that you find a class of players that want to be here and can help the program. It doesn't matter one bit where those kids come from.
Click to expand...
I think Minnesotans have a strange illusion about the numbers of high level of football players in the state. It is ridiculously small for the population base.

Here we go again--ITS DUE TO HOCKEY. Hockey takes away a huge number of potential football players, especially now when hockey players players are 40-50% bigger than they were even a generation ago.

Almost no Minnesota hockey parent is going to allow their potential mega superstar hockey player play any other sport, let alone football--after elementary school. No other US state of Minnesota's population size has this sort of issue.
 

hungan1 said:
Wanting to be a Gopher like Eastern, Lindenberg and Purcell is a big deal. PJ Fleck also espouses good fit.

Sure, they will recruit out of state to make up for the lose in state talent. More often, they are very successful recently at replacing them. The Gophers want impact players too. They excelled at talent development and deployment which attract players that have potential to excel and even make the Pros.

Until the Gophers win a few titles, this will be way things are. Even then, you can't stop a player for wanting to go Stanford or other schools of their dream.

I don't see a problem attracting players if they put more players in the NFL every year. Last year, they had five. This get noticed.
Click to expand...
While I would love to see all top Minnesotans become Gophers, you are spot on with the bolded piece. In today's world of people moving more that dream school may be out of state. Both my boys grew up mostly in Colorado, but Dad made them Gopher fans. Had they been D1 caliber players out of high school with offers from CU, CSU and the U there is no doubt they would have become Gophers
 

It's tough because you have to define "top recruits". As many have mentioned, MN is very up and down on nationally ranked talent in HS football. 2021 class has four according to 247, all 4*. There's one high 3* and then a drop off.

The top talent also needs to match the future needs of the team, which isn't always the case.
 

highwayman said:
I think Minnesotans have a strange illusion about the numbers of high level of football players in the state. It is ridiculously small for the population base.

Here we go again--ITS DUE TO HOCKEY. Hockey takes away a huge number of potential football players, especially now when hockey players players are 40-50% bigger than they were even a generation ago.

Almost no Minnesota hockey parent is going to allow their potential mega superstar hockey player play any other sport, let alone football--after elementary school. No other US state of Minnesota's population size has this sort of issue.
Click to expand...
Hockey has a large impact.
Here are the numbers for 2021(on 247website)
Iowa has 25 kids sign FBS scholarships and a population of 3M
Wisconsin has 13 and population of 5.8M
MN has 9 and population of 5.6M
NE has 11 and population of 1.9M


Minnesota has 3 times the hockey players to Wisconsin.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
Hockey has a large impact.
Here are the numbers for 2021(on 247website)
Iowa has 25 kids sign FBS scholarships and a population of 3M
Wisconsin has 13 and population of 5.8M
MN has 9 and population of 5.6M
NE has 11 and population of 1.9M


Minnesota has 3 times the hockey players to Wisconsin.
Click to expand...
additionally, given the nature of hockey throughout the state, there is also large external pressure to pursue hockey to its fullest with year-long traveling teams, etc. and the allure of junior hockey or college scholarships at the smaller D1 or D3 schools; For example, in my hometown (a rural place of 900 in northern MN), multiple of the best athletes opted out of football to play hockey to avoid injury and play in a fall season previously. The days of guys like Zach Budish (played hockey for the U of M and was a football standout) and Jake Ratzlaff (now WI football commit) are becoming rarer and rarer as people specialize earlier. And due to the resources we have poured into it as well as the way the weather works here, more are going to play hockey year round.
 

Why do Minnesotans want to keep the best in state? Because we know that something special can happen when the kids share that little extra bit of pride. See: the hockey program

I firmly believe the hockey team could win with an all MN team and should never dip below 75% Minnesotans or below any other MN team in the state. Duluth is the best program of the last five AND ten years, and now has the same proportion of MN kids as the Gophers. Moving away from 90%+ Minnesotans could have been another reason for the hockey program's struggles/lack of identity on the ice and apathy in the stands.

In the end, the point is get the best players. Having a bunch of Minnesotans on the roster just to have them every year, but every year losing the top Minnesotans isn't a winning formula. The football and basketball programs need to do better to keep the top Minnesota kids.
 

bonin21 said:
Why do Minnesotans want to keep the best in state? Because we know that something special can happen when the kids share that little extra bit of pride. See: the hockey program

I firmly believe the hockey team could win with an all MN team and should never dip below 75% Minnesotans or below any other MN team in the state. Duluth is the best program of the last five AND ten years, and now has the same proportion of MN kids as the Gophers. Moving away from 90%+ Minnesotans could have been another reason for the hockey program's struggles/lack of identity on the ice and apathy in the stands.

In the end, the point is get the best players. Having a bunch of Minnesotans on the roster just to have them every year, but every year losing the top Minnesotans isn't a winning formula. The football and basketball programs need to do better to keep the top Minnesota kids.
Click to expand...

Hockey is an outlier here. MN basketball has gotten so good that we could put a really good all Minnesota team. I also don't think there is any extra pride. I don't think Grant Potulny played with any less pride than Johnny Pohl. I didn't enjoy his success any less.


For every sport, just get the best players. You should have a better shot at those players if they are local, but that's about it for me. I don't root any less for Dunlap than I do for Connor Olsen.
 

Reminder the kids that we are currently trying to recruit to MN grew up watching the Gophers lose 14 straight to Madison. We have not been a good program. PJ is right it's gonna take time so as these kids grow up they see successful Gopher seasons. Need The Bank to be rocking consistently over multiple years.

Thought he did an OK job getting Eastern and Purcell. Missed on a couple. Not great. Made up for it recruiting other areas of the country though.
 

Iowa is interesting. Is their high school football really that much better than ours? They seem to typically have more high rated kids per population than we do, and Iowa takes more in state kids that we seem to, but Iowa also does a great job of identifying the lesser rated guys and guys that can grow into different positions. I don’t really care where the kids come from either, and I don’t think the instate guys play with any more pride, but it does help future recruiting instate I would imagine. I would think instate guys would be more likely to stick with the program and graduate compared to out of state guys as well.
 


btowngopher said:
Iowa is interesting. Is their high school football really that much better than ours? They seem to typically have more high rated kids per population than we do, and Iowa takes more in state kids that we seem to, but Iowa also does a great job of identifying the lesser rated guys and guys that can grow into different positions. I don’t really care where the kids come from either, and I don’t think the instate guys play with any more pride, but it does help future recruiting instate I would imagine. I would think instate guys would be more likely to stick with the program and graduate compared to out of state guys as well.
Click to expand...
They have little hockey. MN has 20 times the hockey that Iowa has. Also with the population, I would trust that schools for the most part have smaller enrollments allowing for less competition and more kids sticking to playing more than one sport.
 

As I remember Murray Warmath used to take his top recruits to a motel 2 days before signing day so that the competition couldn’t find them to sign. Obviously this was before the internet. Ya, the good old days.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom