Gopher Fans are crazy to call for Tubby’s head after just 4+ seasons

[savagerube]

We all have our opinions about whether should be fired, dismissed, offered an extension, etc. It’s Tubby’s 5th year at the U of M and the amount of fans who are disgusted with Tubby are undoubtedly growing in numbers. Tubby’s B1G record isn’t where we thought it would be and the futility on the court is frustrating at times.

Tubby coached at the most prestigious college basketball program for 10 years before he was let go. He coached at a school where they rank #1 in NCAA appearances, NCAA tournament wins, Elite 8 appearances, and most impressively Kentucky ranks #1 in all-time wins. Prior to Tubby arriving in Lexington, the Wildcats already had six National Championships. Tubby won a national championship with a roster that was mainly constructed by his predecessor. During Tubby’s tenure at Kentucky, he made the NCAA’s every year, albeit again with some of Pitino’s recruits. However, he made two Elite 8’s after Pitino’s recruits were no longer in the program and made the dance every year. Despite the aforementioned success, it didn’t live up to the expectations of the Kentucky faithful and it resulted in Tubby’s dismissal.

Tubby coached at Kentucky for a decade and some of us here in Gopher nation are already calling for him to be let go after year five. This, to me, is preposterous. Gophers basketball has made it past the Sweet 16 twice; one of which has an asterisk next to it. The overall winning percentage in the history Gophers basketball is .576, Tubby’s is north of .600. Who do some of us think we are that we can honestly call for a probable future hall of fame coach to be fired after year five? What are we basing this on? We’re not an elite program—not even in our own conference, much less in the country. We have very little history and some of us fans think that we can justify firing Tubby after four-plus seasons. What’s the justification? Tubby has made the dance in two of his first four seasons. We act like we have a rich history but we hardly have a leg to stand on as far as past success goes. It took a program like Kentucky 10 years to let Tubby go; we’re in year five and some of us think that we’re some type of basketball program with clout that can dismiss coaches after five years because we're not happy with the results. The fact is we don’t have clout; we have a team that ranks ninth in the B1G in Tourney appearances. I don’t want to settle for mediocrity, but what Tubby has done in his first four years is above the level of mediocrity in Gopher basketball terms. If it wasn't for transfers (Yes, some of that falls on Tubby) and injuries, Gopher basketball history would be currently in the making.

I know I will get ripped for this by some, but the program is not in position to dismiss a proven winner after year five. I hope he gets two more years and then it's time to analyze the situation.

 

[ruppertflywheel]

"but what Tubby has done in his first four years is above the level of mediocrity in Gopher basketball terms" You may want to check his B1G record.

 

[WBLGold]

"We have very little history and some of us fans think that we can justify firing Tubby after four-plus seasons."

"We act like we have a rich history but we hardly have a leg to stand on as far as past success goes."

I agree totally. This is my first year of season tickets and I was very suprised when I looked up and saw the lack of Banners for postseason play at Williams Arena in the last 40 or so years. I don't think we have over 10 banners up there.

I thought we were much better than that.

 

[howieramone]

We all have our opinions about whether should be fired, dismissed, offered an extension, etc. It’s Tubby’s 5th year at the U of M and the amount of fans who are disgusted with Tubby are undoubtedly growing in numbers. Tubby’s B1G record isn’t where we thought it would be and the futility on the court is frustrating at times.

Tubby coached at the most prestigious college basketball program for 10 years before he was let go. He coached at a school where they rank #1 in NCAA appearances, NCAA tournament wins, Elite 8 appearances, and most impressively Kentucky ranks #1 in all-time wins. Prior to Tubby arriving in Lexington, the Wildcats already had six National Championships. Tubby won a national championship with a roster that was mainly constructed by his predecessor. During Tubby’s tenure at Kentucky, he made the NCAA’s every year, albeit again with some of Pitino’s recruits. However, he made two Elite 8’s after Pitino’s recruits were no longer in the program and made the dance every year. Despite the aforementioned success, it didn’t live up to the expectations of the Kentucky faithful and it resulted in Tubby’s dismissal.

Tubby coached at Kentucky for a decade and some of us here in Gopher nation are already calling for him to be let go after year five. This, to me, is preposterous. Gophers basketball has made it past the Sweet 16 twice; one of which has an asterisk next to it. The overall winning percentage in the history Gophers basketball is .576, Tubby’s is north of .600. Who do some of us think we are that we can honestly call for a probable future hall of fame coach to be fired after year five? What are we basing this on? We’re not an elite program—not even in our own conference, much less in the country. We have very little history and some of us fans think that we can justify firing Tubby after four-plus seasons. What’s the justification? Tubby has made the dance in two of his first four seasons. We act like we have a rich history but we hardly have a leg to stand on as far as past success goes. It took a program like Kentucky 10 years to let Tubby go; we’re in year five and some of us think that we’re some type of basketball program with clout that can dismiss coaches after five years because we're not happy with the results. The fact is we don’t have clout; we have a team that ranks ninth in the B1G in Tourney appearances. I don’t want to settle for mediocrity, but what Tubby has done in his first four years is above the level of mediocrity in Gopher basketball terms. If it wasn't for transfers (Yes, some of that falls on Tubby) and injuries, Gopher basketball history would be currently in the making.

I know I will get ripped for this by some, but the program is not in position to dismiss a proven winner after year five. I hope he gets two more years and then it's time to analyze the situation.

+1

 

[goldengophers]

It's really not crazy whatsoever to have a discussion about whether Tubby should be let go and if the AD situation was cemented it could be argued that he should be fired at season's end. Tubby was hired because of his future hall of fame status and was given pay at his time of hire compensatory of the expectation of elevating the basketball program far beyond the bottom of the B1G and well beyond the conference win % of the football team...neither of which has been achieved this season or the last. It is simply unacceptable for a future HOF'r to not have his team on the level of Purdue, Wisconsin, Michigan and Ohio State/ Indiana (whoever isn't second behind MSU). Tubby Smith was viewed as the template for the football hire and the past two seasons he has been comparable to Brewster/Horton and Kill...could you imagine a Calhoun or Boeheim (both of which were on the same level w/ Tubby at time of hire) with this kind of ineptitude at the U? Anyone not willing to partake in discussion of Tubby's future or uses pejorative terms to refer to the other side has a deep deep gold tint to their glasses.

 

[bga1]

We all have our opinions about whether should be fired, dismissed, offered an extension, etc. It’s Tubby’s 5th year at the U of M and the amount of fans who are disgusted with Tubby are undoubtedly growing in numbers. Tubby’s B1G record isn’t where we thought it would be and the futility on the court is frustrating at times.

Tubby coached at the most prestigious college basketball program for 10 years before he was let go. He coached at a school where they rank #1 in NCAA appearances, NCAA tournament wins, Elite 8 appearances, and most impressively Kentucky ranks #1 in all-time wins. Prior to Tubby arriving in Lexington, the Wildcats already had six National Championships. Tubby won a national championship with a roster that was mainly constructed by his predecessor. During Tubby’s tenure at Kentucky, he made the NCAA’s every year, albeit again with some of Pitino’s recruits. However, he made two Elite 8’s after Pitino’s recruits were no longer in the program and made the dance every year. Despite the aforementioned success, it didn’t live up to the expectations of the Kentucky faithful and it resulted in Tubby’s dismissal.

Tubby coached at Kentucky for a decade and some of us here in Gopher nation are already calling for him to be let go after year five. This, to me, is preposterous. Gophers basketball has made it past the Sweet 16 twice; one of which has an asterisk next to it. The overall winning percentage in the history Gophers basketball is .576, Tubby’s is north of .600. Who do some of us think we are that we can honestly call for a probable future hall of fame coach to be fired after year five? What are we basing this on? We’re not an elite program—not even in our own conference, much less in the country. We have very little history and some of us fans think that we can justify firing Tubby after four-plus seasons. What’s the justification? Tubby has made the dance in two of his first four seasons. We act like we have a rich history but we hardly have a leg to stand on as far as past success goes. It took a program like Kentucky 10 years to let Tubby go; we’re in year five and some of us think that we’re some type of basketball program with clout that can dismiss coaches after five years because we're not happy with the results. The fact is we don’t have clout; we have a team that ranks ninth in the B1G in Tourney appearances. I don’t want to settle for mediocrity, but what Tubby has done in his first four years is above the level of mediocrity in Gopher basketball terms. If it wasn't for transfers (Yes, some of that falls on Tubby) and injuries, Gopher basketball history would be currently in the making.

I know I will get ripped for this by some, but the program is not in position to dismiss a proven winner after year five. I hope he gets two more years and then it's time to analyze the situation.

He gets one more year from me. Not two. Over the next 12 months we will find out:

1. What our latest recruiting class looks like in terms of potential
2. Whether we have continued the rapid fire turnover or has he stabilized the ship
3. What he can do (assuming minimal or no turnover) with a now veteran roster that has 100% players of his choosing.
4. If he reaches the NCAAs and finishes in the top 5 next year. That's a minimum bar for me next year.
5. What kind of class he signs next fall.
6. What kind of work this squad put in over the summer to improve.
7. Is he flexible enough to change his staff and tweak his system to fit the players he has brought in
8. How have the fans responded to him in terms of season tickets and the premium seating program
9. Does this group begin to show confidence and close out games. No reason we can't be 7-2 or better in the Barn- that's a pre-requisite for program enthusiasm.

Right now the consistent Tubby defenders have a decent case in that he has had a lot of turnover and a couple of key injuries. There is athleticism and potential with this squad. There's enough that some coach can make this a good to very good team. Is that coach Tubby?

The only thing that can further cloud that picture is Rodney leaving or another injury. However, if we have a bad year next year because of either of those issues then I still want to fire him and bring in someone that is lucky.

This can't go on forever. Anyone leaving last night could hear mass grumbling mixed with dead silence of others in the hallways of the critter infested Barn. Next year is the year for me to see success here. He can do this.

 

[bleedsmaroonandgold]

He gets one more year from me. Not two. Over the next 12 months we will find out:

1. What our latest recruiting class looks like in terms of potential
2. Whether we have continued the rapid fire turnover or has he stabilized the ship
3. What he can do (assuming minimal or no turnover) with a now veteran roster that has 100% players of his choosing.
4. If he reaches the NCAAs and finishes in the top 5 next year. That's a minimum bar for me next year.
5. What kind of class he signs next fall.
6. What kind of work this squad put in over the summer to improve.
7. Is he flexible enough to change his staff and tweak his system to fit the players he has brought in
8. How have the fans responded to him in terms of season tickets and the premium seating program
9. Does this group begin to show confidence and close out games. No reason we can't be 7-2 or better in the Barn- that's a pre-requisite for program enthusiasm.

Right now the consistent Tubby defenders have a decent case in that he has had a lot of turnover and a couple of key injuries. There is athleticism and potential with this squad. There's enough that some coach can make this a good to very good team. Is that coach Tubby?

The only thing that can further cloud that picture is Rodney leaving or another injury. However, if we have a bad year next year because of either of those issues then I still want to fire him and bring in someone that is lucky.

This can't go on forever. Anyone leaving last night could hear mass grumbling mixed with dead silence of others in the hallways of the critter infested Barn. Next year is the year for me to see success here. He can do this.

+1 Great analysis

 

[scher215]

He gets one more year from me. Not two. Over the next 12 months we will find out:

1. What our latest recruiting class looks like in terms of potential
2. Whether we have continued the rapid fire turnover or has he stabilized the ship
3. What he can do (assuming minimal or no turnover) with a now veteran roster that has 100% players of his choosing.
4. If he reaches the NCAAs and finishes in the top 5 next year. That's a minimum bar for me next year.
5. What kind of class he signs next fall.
6. What kind of work this squad put in over the summer to improve.
7. Is he flexible enough to change his staff and tweak his system to fit the players he has brought in
8. How have the fans responded to him in terms of season tickets and the premium seating program
9. Does this group begin to show confidence and close out games. No reason we can't be 7-2 or better in the Barn- that's a pre-requisite for program enthusiasm.

Right now the consistent Tubby defenders have a decent case in that he has had a lot of turnover and a couple of key injuries. There is athleticism and potential with this squad. There's enough that some coach can make this a good to very good team. Is that coach Tubby?

The only thing that can further cloud that picture is Rodney leaving or another injury. However, if we have a bad year next year because of either of those issues then I still want to fire him and bring in someone that is lucky.

This can't go on forever. Anyone leaving last night could hear mass grumbling mixed with dead silence of others in the hallways of the critter infested Barn. Next year is the year for me to see success here. He can do this.

Very well said.

I think I'd say I'm okay with a 6th or 7th finish if it also included a tourney birth and wins.

And I'd be okay with a transfer depending on who it is and who replaces them.

Next year is HUGE though.

Lastly, to expect any luck for a program that missed on John wooden due to a bad snow storm is just a waste of time. unfortunately. God may hate Cleveland, but someone isn't too happy with Minnesota (pro and college sports) either.

 

[savagerube]

He gets one more year from me. Not two. Over the next 12 months we will find out:

1. What our latest recruiting class looks like in terms of potential
2. Whether we have continued the rapid fire turnover or has he stabilized the ship
3. What he can do (assuming minimal or no turnover) with a now veteran roster that has 100% players of his choosing.
4. If he reaches the NCAAs and finishes in the top 5 next year. That's a minimum bar for me next year.
5. What kind of class he signs next fall.
6. What kind of work this squad put in over the summer to improve.
7. Is he flexible enough to change his staff and tweak his system to fit the players he has brought in
8. How have the fans responded to him in terms of season tickets and the premium seating program
9. Does this group begin to show confidence and close out games. No reason we can't be 7-2 or better in the Barn- that's a pre-requisite for program enthusiasm.

Right now the consistent Tubby defenders have a decent case in that he has had a lot of turnover and a couple of key injuries. There is athleticism and potential with this squad. There's enough that some coach can make this a good to very good team. Is that coach Tubby?

The only thing that can further cloud that picture is Rodney leaving or another injury. However, if we have a bad year next year because of either of those issues then I still want to fire him and bring in someone that is lucky.

This can't go on forever. Anyone leaving last night could hear mass grumbling mixed with dead silence of others in the hallways of the critter infested Barn. Next year is the year for me to see success here. He can do this.

I like it. I would add one more:

10) Implementation of a practice facility. Four new practice facilities alone in the B1G 2010/2011. Let's get it done!

 

[bga1]

I like it. I would add one more:

10) Implementation of a practice facility. Four new practice facilities alone in the B1G 2010/2011. Let's get it done!

rube- A practice facility announcement by late summer is my minimum expectation of Kaler and his new AD. Tubby has done his part there. The season ticket holding base is already going to be ticked off to drop extra coin on this program as it sits with no results, little enthusiasm and no visions. The least they can do is commit to getting the facility done with the extra money that they are asking for being a down stroke. The premium seating program has to be more than " we need more money". It has to be an investment in competing at a higher level.

Here's what Smith ought to do- this would be great PR- tell the U he is donating 1 million of this year's salary as the first major donor to the practice facility. (easy for me to say )

 

[SelectionSunday]

Battle 4 Atlantis

We're going to find out a lot about our team when we go to the Bahamas in November for the Battle 4 Atlantis:

Duke
Louisville
Memphis
Mizzou
Northern Iowa
Stanford
VCU

I think that's a good thing.

Hopefully we meet up with at least 1 of the big boys (Duke or Louisville). This adds an interesting dynamnic for Gopher fans getting impatient with Tubby. We very well could lose a couple games there, and still end up being a darn good team. I suspect if we go 1-2 there the "Tubby sucks" crowd will get it rollin', even if our opponents end up being Duke, Louisville, Memphis, etc.

 

[goldengophers]

Hopefully we meet up with at least 1 of the big boys (Duke or Louisville). This adds an interesting dynamnic for Gopher fans getting impatient with Tubby. We very well could lose a couple games there, and still end up being a darn good team. I suspect if we go 1-2 there the "Tubby sucks" crowd will get it rollin', even if our opponents end up being Duke, Louisville, Memphis, etc.

Terrific distraction technique and attempt to marginalize the other side of a legit discussion by bringing in assumptions that aren't germane.

 

[SelectionSunday]

Compensatory? Template? Pejorative? Marginalize? Germane?

Such impressive vocabulary. Is that you, Brian Billick?

 

[Winnipegopher]

This is a message board. People act like people here are uniquely negative- they aren't.

There is no BCS message board that would not have people calling for the coach's head after two similar seasons. Caoch K would be on the hot seat on Duke boards if he finished at the bottom of the ACC two years in a row.

 

[goldengophers]

This is a message board. People act like people here are uniquely negative- they aren't.

There is no BCS message board that would not have people calling for the coach's head after two similar seasons. Caoch K would be on the hot seat on Duke boards if he finished at the bottom of the ACC two years in a row.

+1 To not be question letting Tubby go after the last two seasons is in itself an affront to his coaching record prior to the U.

 

[scher215]

This is a message board. People act like people here are uniquely negative- they aren't.

There is no BCS message board that would not have people calling for the coach's head after two similar seasons. Caoch K would be on the hot seat on Duke boards if he finished at the bottom of the ACC two years in a row.

Would Coach K be on the hot seat if he did that here?

Of course he would be at Duke. They expect to contend for TITLES every year. Duke is not Minnesota. Duke became Duke over decades of history and you want Tubby to have us the same as Duke in 5 years!?!?

Coach K would be on the hot seat if he only made the sweet 16, 5 years in a row. tubby would be God if he did that here. See why you can't compare them? Would Coach K be on the hot seat after two bottom Big 10 finishes at Iowa? My guess is no.

 

[Winnipegopher]

+1 To not be question letting Tubby go after the last two seasons is in itself an affront to his coaching record prior to the U.

Whoops, I was more speaking about message board dynamics than Tubby. On message boards, the high is far too high and the lows are far too low.

 

[savagerube]

This is a message board. People act like people here are uniquely negative- they aren't.

There is no BCS message board that would not have people calling for the coach's head after two similar seasons. Caoch K would be on the hot seat on Duke boards if he finished at the bottom of the ACC two years in a row.

You're missing the point. Even if Coach K was on the hot seat (which is hard to believe), the reason he would be under the microscope is because he coaches at Duke. Duke doesn't finish in the bottom of the ACC, much less in the bottom half because they're Duke. They're history couldn't be any more different. Again, we're comparing schools like Kentucky and Duke to Minnesota. WE'RE NOT A PREMIER PROGRAM (yet, hopefully someday)! Tubby has coached 30% of the NCAA tourney teams since the field of 64 was implemented -- that's counting the Clem years. Look at our history? What are basing your expectations on?

 

[Winnipegopher]

Would Coach K be on the hot seat if he did that here?

Of course he would be at Duke. They expect to contend for TITLES every year. Duke is not Minnesota. Duke became Duke over decades of history and you want Tubby to have us the same as Duke in 5 years!?!?

Coach K would be on the hot seat if he only made the sweet 16, 5 years in a row. tubby would be God if he did that here. See why you can't compare them? Would Coach K be on the hot seat after two bottom Big 10 finishes at Iowa? My guess is no.

I was referring to message board dynamics not Tubby or Coach K's specific situation.

By the way, if Coach K left Duke and went to Iowa, the Iowa boards would be all over him after two bottom Big Ten finishes. "we paid how much for this." "He's not even as good as Alford". etc.

My point was many message board posters are bi-polar, their highs are too high and the lows too low.

 

[scher215]

I was referring to message board dynamics not Tubby or Coach K's specific situation.

By the way, if Coach K left Duke and went to Iowa, the Iowa boards would be all over him after two bottom Big Ten finishes. "we paid how much for this." "He's not even as good as Alford". etc.

My point was many message board posters are bi-polar, their highs are too high and the lows too low.

Fair enough. My apologies. I misinterpreted what you were saying.

 

[savagerube]

Fair enough. My apologies. I misinterpreted what you were saying.

I second that.

 

[scools12]

what is preposterous is the pro-Tubby crowding thinking that because Minnesota basketball has "very little history" how could fans be so arrogant to want Tubby out. if he was brought in only to maintain a certain level of mediocrity that was another blunder made by the current AD. if that was the attended outcome then someone with a lot less name recognition and half the price tag should have been hired to achieve the same results.

 

[jovs]

We're going to find out a lot about our team when we go to the Bahamas in November for the Battle 4 Atlantis:

Duke
Louisville
Memphis
Mizzou
Northern Iowa
Stanford
VCU

I think that's a good thing.

Hopefully we meet up with at least 1 of the big boys (Duke or Louisville). This adds an interesting dynamnic for Gopher fans getting impatient with Tubby. We very well could lose a couple games there, and still end up being a darn good team. I suspect if we go 1-2 there the "Tubby sucks" crowd will get it rollin', even if our opponents end up being Duke, Louisville, Memphis, etc.

Wow, interesting, no chance to ease into it next year, they could be playing a good VCU/Northern Iowa team for last place.

 

[goldengophers]

what is preposterous is the pro-Tubby crowding thinking that because Minnesota basketball has "very little history" how could fans be so arrogant to want Tubby out. if he was brought in only to maintain a certain level of mediocrity that was another blunder made by the current AD. if that was the attended outcome then someone with a lot less name recognition and half the price tag should have been hired to achieve the same results.

Exactly, he was brought in to elevate the program with his clout and coaching ability.

 

[savagerube]

what is preposterous is the pro-Tubby crowding thinking that because Minnesota basketball has "very little history" how could fans be so arrogant to want Tubby out. if he was brought in only to maintain a certain level of mediocrity that was another blunder made by the current AD. if that was the attended outcome then someone with a lot less name recognition and half the price tag should have been hired to achieve the same results.

The point is that he did raise the level of mediocrity. The team was 9-22 when he took over, right? His first year the team was 20-13. His salary is in the middle of the B1G. You can't deny injuries and transfers. I know I'm beating a dead horse but it's fact. He's the ONLY gopher's coach (Legitimately) to make back-to-back NCAA tourney's? How is that not raising the level of mediocrity? I get it, right now it's disappointing but you can't fire him after year five. Tom Crean was 8-46 in the B1G before this year. I suppose he should've been fired last year as well.

 

[goldengophers]

The point is that he did raise the level of mediocrity. The team was 9-22 when he took over, right? His first year the team was 20-13. His salary is in the middle of the B1G. You can't deny injuries and transfers. I know I'm beating a dead horse but it's fact. He's the ONLY gopher's coach (Legitimately) to make back-to-back NCAA tourney's? How is that not raising the level of mediocrity? I get it, right now it's disappointing but you can't fire him after year five. Tom Crean was 8-46 in the B1G before this year. I suppose he should've been fired last year as well.

Tom Crean's situation at Indy isn't relevant to our discussion. Transfers are on Tubby and injuries can only go so far as depth and coaching strategy should help a team avoid dropping to the bottom end of the B1G.

 

[scools12]

The point is that he did raise the level of mediocrity. The team was 9-22 when he took over, right? His first year the team was 20-13. His salary is in the middle of the B1G. You can't deny injuries and transfers. I know I'm beating a dead horse but it's fact. He's the ONLY gopher's coach (Legitimately) to make back-to-back NCAA tourney's? How is that not raising the level of mediocrity? I get it, right now it's disappointing but you can't fire him after year five. Tom Crean was 8-46 in the B1G before this year. I suppose he should've been fired last year as well.

Your point was "Who do some of us think we are that we can honestly call for a probable future hall of fame coach to be fired after year five?"

I am not saying he should be fired but this idea that we are lowly Minnesota and he is the great Tubby Smith so fans can't express their desire that he be fired is ridiculous.

 

[savagerube]

Tom Crean's situation at Indy isn't relevant to our discussion. Transfers are on Tubby and injuries can only go so far as depth and coaching strategy should help a team avoid dropping to the bottom end of the B1G.

Tom Crean's situation is very relevant. He's a coach that won 8 conference games in his first 3 years. Now he has a top 25 team. It shows that Indiana stuck with him and look what happened?

 

[zambam]

Your point was "Who do some of us think we are that we can honestly call for a probable future hall of fame coach to be fired after year five?"

I am not saying he should be fired but this idea that we are lowly Minnesota and he is the great Tubby Smith so fans can't express their desire that he be fired is ridiculous.

I think what he was trying to say is fans are mad that he hasn't gotten us out of mediocrity yet, even though it can be argued he has somewhat raised the level of the program. There are countless recruits that say the only reason they are even CONSIDERING Minnesota is Tubby Smith. I do not think a different coach would raise the level of the program much, and it could be argued the program will go down before it goes back up if we bring in a new coach.

 

[Gopher Warrior]

Tom Crean's situation at Indy isn't relevant to our discussion. Transfers are on Tubby and injuries can only go so far as depth and coaching strategy should help a team avoid dropping to the bottom end of the B1G.

Very true. Completely different situations, but one thing I4 had going for him even when his teams were pathetic were great future commitments who wanted to come to Indiana and play for them.

Zeller is excellent, but next year the large groups of reinforcements begin to arrive... and it hardly stops with the 2012 class. Indiana's commitment board has been filled with 2014 studs for quite some time - if Tubby had a couple of 2014 commitments before this year even started, as well as great 2012 & 2013 classes, some people would be singing a different tune.

Smith's issue isn't just the results on the floor, but the view of the future (although I do believe a lot of fans have a rosy view of next year... maybe it's just wishful thinking).