Good work Tubby

[jags1998]

I'll agree that there will be no reason to whine if they get beat tomorrow, but you are wrong about the court time/underachieving. The team that played tonight may look like they could be a 4-6 seed, but they weren't that good all year. When Nolen went down, Devoe wasn't a great starting point guard the first day he had the job, he grew into that role. Doesn't Tubby get some credit for that? How about with Colton? Did you see how tenative he was against Purdue? He had a 6-4 guy on him and he wouldn't go up with the ball! 2 weeks later he his going right at anybody MSU can put on him.

This team has been written off about 50 times this year, but they have bounced back after each loss. Guys in supporting roles have moved into the spotlight, and flourished at times. When they've struggled, the staff has worked with them and made them ready for each game. People have ripped Tubby and said his recruits have done nothing, but Devoe and Colt were huge in their biggest game of the year. Guys are developing, they have found some toughness, and they are playing their best basketball when it counts.

Tubby deserves a lot of credit.

Well said.

 

[underground629]

I'll bring on that argument... Devoe may have hit some big shots lately, but we're still a better team when Al Nolen is available. Are you looking solely at production in points? Are you sure you aren't basing too much of your argument on the fact that we happen to be playing well lately with Devoe instead of Al, and the fact that Devoe had a great overtime?

Like I said - go look at the performance of Bostick and Iverson tonight.

Huh? We didn't lose a high minute #3 or #4. We had a so so point guard eff up in school, that's it. The reality is the committee looks at who is currently on the team.. so are you arguing that they should be weary of the Gophers and have issues with us because Al Nolen is not playing for us, although he was when we won some of our 'big' games? You can't have it both ways. Get educated.

Side note, not for the guy I'm quoting, but, I think Al is a wash. We've won big games without him, Devoe is playing out of position well, I don't think you can say we're better or worse right right now with Al on the floor or on the bench.. not a big deal. Positives and negatives.

 

[beowulftom]

No - that is false. The point is that excluding Trevor and Royce, this team should have performed better than it did in the regular season. We performed below expectations. This has nothing do with uconn or UNC...

If you want to argue that losing Al hurt us winning games, please do. Bring that argument on.

My argument is with your arm-chair coach's word "should".

It doesn't mean anything. The team still has to play the games, the players still have to learn their roles.

Every team starts the year with some expectation of how they'll do and then they jump in the water. This year,NC and UCONN drowned. But the Gophers struggled and righted themselves, albeit late in the year.

and to declare a season that is not over a disappointment while your team still has a chance to do some great things I find cynical.

 

[Gopher Warrior]

Some of you folks really like to live in the moment. (I feel) Sorry that you can't understand things.

Good luck. Hopefully the committee doesn't listen to underground629, who is arguing that we are a lesser team than the one that beat Michigan State tonight, because we don't have Al Nolen.

The measuring stick isn't "if we had this guy and that guy".. the measuring stick isn't "well Colton did this and that against Purdue".

If they were playing their best basketball when it counts, then tell me what being blown out of the gym vs. Michigan was all about? Or was that long, long ago? If this team is in the NIT, are you going to tell me that they played their best basketball when it counts? Or are you going to blame it on the selection committee?

Any sane person knows this team should have been better than this. BUT... we still have a chance to make amends, and they did tonight, and must do it again tomorrow.

 

[jags1998]

Some of you folks really like to live in the moment. (I feel) Sorry that you can't understand things.

Good luck. Hopefully the committee doesn't listen to underground629, who is arguing that we are a lesser team than the one that beat Michigan State tonight, because we don't have Al Nolen.

The measuring stick isn't "if we had this guy and that guy".. the measuring stick isn't "well Colton did this and that against Purdue".

If they were playing their best basketball when it counts, then tell me what being blown out of the gym vs. Michigan was all about? Or was that long, long ago? If this team is in the NIT, are you going to tell me that they played their best basketball when it counts? Or are you going to blame it on the selection committee?

Any sane person knows this team should have been better than this. BUT... we still have a chance to make amends, and they did tonight, and must do it again tomorrow.

GopherWarrior, go back to the original post, here. I am not arguing that that this is the greatest team ever or that the selection committee deserves blame if we don't get in. Read my original post. I'm saying Tubby has done a good job coaching the guys he has, despite losing three starters. That's it. Ya'll read too much into it. We may not get in. Doesn't mean that Tubster hasn't done well this year.

 

[underground629]

Wow, that is just all over the place. Where did I argue that we're a lesser team than the one that beat Mich. St. because we don't have Al Nolen? Can you explain how you came up with that? I said we're a better team when he's available. I don't know about you, but I like having one of the best perimeter defenders in the country available.

I assume the stuff after that wasn't directed at me...

Some of you folks really like to live in the moment. (I feel) Sorry that you can't understand things.

Good luck. Hopefully the committee doesn't listen to underground629, who is arguing that we are a lesser team than the one that beat Michigan State tonight, because we don't have Al Nolen.

The measuring stick isn't "if we had this guy and that guy".. the measuring stick isn't "well Colton did this and that against Purdue".

If they were playing their best basketball when it counts, then tell me what being blown out of the gym vs. Michigan was all about? Or was that long, long ago? If this team is in the NIT, are you going to tell me that they played their best basketball when it counts? Or are you going to blame it on the selection committee?

Any sane person knows this team should have been better than this. BUT... we still have a chance to make amends, and they did tonight, and must do it again tomorrow.

 

[beowulftom]

Some of you folks really like to live in the moment. (I feel) Sorry that you can't understand things.

Good luck. Hopefully the committee doesn't listen to underground629, who is arguing that we are a lesser team than the one that beat Michigan State tonight, because we don't have Al Nolen.

The measuring stick isn't "if we had this guy and that guy".. the measuring stick isn't "well Colton did this and that against Purdue".

If they were playing their best basketball when it counts, then tell me what being blown out of the gym vs. Michigan was all about? Or was that long, long ago? If this team is in the NIT, are you going to tell me that they played their best basketball when it counts? Or are you going to blame it on the selection committee?

Any sane person knows this team should have been better than this. BUT... we still have a chance to make amends, and they did tonight, and must do it again tomorrow.

I think someone might need some sleep.... you're no longer making sense.

 

[underground629]

I guess I wasn't the only one who thought so. I agree with him most of the time and he definitely knows his stuff (which leads to his arrogance getting a little out of control at times), but that post was kind of all over the place.

I think someone might need some sleep.... you're no longer making sense.

 

[Gopher Warrior]

Where did I argue that we're a lesser team than the one that beat Mich. St. because we don't have Al Nolen? Can you explain how you came up with that? I said we're a better team when he's available. I don't know about you, but I like having one of the best perimeter defenders in the country available.

I assume the stuff after that wasn't directed at me...

If the 'losing' of Al Nolen is such a bad thing as you suggest, then that is something the selection committee would take into consideration (i.e., who is on your team NOW). Your comments have indicated that you believe Minnesota is a lesser team without Al Nolen - do you truly believe that and therefore believe the committee should take that into consideration? "I said we're a better team when he's available".. does that not mean that "a lesser Gophers team" just beat Michigan State?

I'm saying Tubby has done a good job coaching the guys he has, despite losing three starters. That's it. Ya'll read too much into it. We may not get in. Doesn't mean that Tubster hasn't done well this year.

I understand what you're saying. I'm telling you that he didn't lose three starters and I am telling you that even if you throw Trevor and Royce out of the equation, we underachieved. And I challenge you to tell me that this team would have done better with Al available. Tubby's team has performed below any reasonable person's expectations.

 

[jags1998]

I understand what you're saying. I'm telling you that he didn't lose three starters and I am telling you that even if you throw Trevor and Royce out of the equation, we underachieved. And I challenge you to tell me that this team would have done better with Al available. Tubby's team has performed below any reasonable person's expectations.

I agree on Al.

So, if that makes my "3 starters" argument irrelevant ... so be it. Trevor and Royce would have played significant minutes tonight. I assume you have seen both play ... they would help this team a ton at their weakest points. I'm saying you can't throw them out. Without them, I don't see how we are that good to claim underachievement. G/N!

 

[Gopher Warrior]

I agree on Al.

So, if that makes my "3 starters" argument irrelevant ... so be it. Trevor and Royce would have played significant minutes tonight. I assume you have seen both play ... they would help this team a ton at their weakest points. I'm saying you can't throw them out. Without them, I don't see how we are that good to claim underachievement. G/N!

That's fine. That's where we disagree. I've seen plenty of Trevor and Royce.... but I'm telling you this Minnesota team should have no business being 'on the bubble' or living on a prayer as we are even without them. And that's where the underachievement comes in.

Do you think we overachieved last year by some high degree? And the loss of Jamal A-S and Travis Busch was something we just couldn't overcome? Dude, we messed this season up. We're trying to make up for it - and so far, so good. But, definitely not a great job to pat anyone on the back about re: coaching. Yeeesh.

 

[Friend Of Tubby]

That's fine. That's where we disagree. I've seen plenty of Trevor and Royce.... but I'm telling you this Minnesota team should have no business being 'on the bubble' or living on a prayer as we are even without them. And that's where the underachievement comes in.

Do you think we overachieved last year by some high degree? And the loss of Jamal A-S and Travis Busch was something we just couldn't overcome? Dude, we messed this season up. We're trying to make up for it - and so far, so good. But, definitely not a great job to pat anyone on the back about re: coaching. Yeeesh.

If the "good" Gophers showed up more often, Gophers would have 25+ W now.

Miami FL, Texas A&M, Purdue (home), Mich St (home), IU (away), NWU (away) were ALL winnable games.

I'd rather get it going at the end than in the beginning.

 

[maxwellsmart]

Some of you folks really like to live in the moment. (I feel) Sorry that you can't understand things.

Good luck. Hopefully the committee doesn't listen to underground629, who is arguing that we are a lesser team than the one that beat Michigan State tonight, because we don't have Al Nolen.

The measuring stick isn't "if we had this guy and that guy".. the measuring stick isn't "well Colton did this and that against Purdue".

If they were playing their best basketball when it counts, then tell me what being blown out of the gym vs. Michigan was all about? Or was that long, long ago? If this team is in the NIT, are you going to tell me that they played their best basketball when it counts? Or are you going to blame it on the selection committee?

Any sane person knows this team should have been better than this. BUT... we still have a chance to make amends, and they did tonight, and must do it again tomorrow.

I think we understand a lot more than you think. You kind of have the classic "everybody else is an idiot" syndrome going on, don't you? Just keep huffing and puffing, it's humorous as all get out.

 

[chi-town gopher]

Some of you folks really like to live in the moment. (I feel) Sorry that you can't understand things.

Good luck. Hopefully the committee doesn't listen to underground629, who is arguing that we are a lesser team than the one that beat Michigan State tonight, because we don't have Al Nolen.

The measuring stick isn't "if we had this guy and that guy".. the measuring stick isn't "well Colton did this and that against Purdue".

If they were playing their best basketball when it counts, then tell me what being blown out of the gym vs. Michigan was all about? Or was that long, long ago? If this team is in the NIT, are you going to tell me that they played their best basketball when it counts? Or are you going to blame it on the selection committee?

Any sane person knows this team should have been better than this. BUT... we still have a chance to make amends, and they did tonight, and must do it again tomorrow.

If this team is in the NIT it is their own fault. I don't think anybody will argue that part of your point. I also don't think anybody will argue that the team underachieved based on pre-season expectations, but at what point do you have to throw those expectations out the window and look at the team for what they actually accomplished? At the beginning of the year I thought 12-6 in the big ten wasn't completely unresonable, but after they lost to Northwestern and were sitting at 14-10 with a 5-7 conference record, I thought they might not win 2 more games. Instead they finished 4-2 in the regular season dropping a heartbreaker to Purdue, and playing a terrible game against Michigan.

If you don't want people to cherry pick specific games, then I don't think you can do it either and say the Michigan game shows they haven't played well. Granted it was an awful performance, but it was just one game. Since February 18th, this team is 6-2. Do you think they haven't played their best basketball in that stretch? The measuring stick may not be based on one of Colt's performances or who is playing point guard, but why does it have to be on your (or anybody's) pre-season expectations? Only Johnson and Hoffarber performed to those expecatations before this winning streak, and Hoffarber only did it because people expected nothing of him going into this season. They had a terrible start, lost Nolen and got worse, and then they completely turned it around and finished strong. Does that mean the committee should have pity for them and put them in the tournament? No, they have to earn it like everybody else. But Tubby deserves a lot of credit for getting these guys to keep working, and these players deserve a lot of credit for improving and winning some tough games.

 

[underground629]

I would think the selection committee would look at a team's body of work, not their roster. Plenty of teams lose players for various reasons, I don't think that factors in. I never said that the loss of Nolen should have anything to do with the committee. Do I think we would be better off having Nolen eligible? Yes. Do I think we're playing better right now than we were when Nolen was around? Yes, because the team has stepped up.

If the 'losing' of Al Nolen is such a bad thing as you suggest, then that is something the selection committee would take into consideration (i.e., who is on your team NOW). Your comments have indicated that you believe Minnesota is a lesser team without Al Nolen - do you truly believe that and therefore believe the committee should take that into consideration? "I said we're a better team when he's available".. does that not mean that "a lesser Gophers team" just beat Michigan State?



I understand what you're saying. I'm telling you that he didn't lose three starters and I am telling you that even if you throw Trevor and Royce out of the equation, we underachieved. And I challenge you to tell me that this team would have done better with Al available. Tubby's team has performed below any reasonable person's expectations.

 

[gopherbadgerman]

I think they have performed under expectations thus far, save the win last night.

If they win today, then much gets forgotten, but it is hard to discount some of the very poor performances we have seen this year...

 

[Drex96]

I would think the selection committee would look at a team's body of work, not their roster. Plenty of teams lose players for various reasons, I don't think that factors in. I never said that the loss of Nolen should have anything to do with the committee. Do I think we would be better off having Nolen eligible? Yes. Do I think we're playing better right now than we were when Nolen was around? Yes, because the team has stepped up.

Agree. In addition, the team is playing better without Nolen because the key players are getting significantly more minutes.

With Nolen: Avg starter minutes 25

Without Nolen: Avg starter minutes 36

Is that coaching? Okay, give it to Tubby. But don't forget that Tubby was the King of Mass Substitutions prior to losing Nolen.

And as anyone who follows any sport knows: the more you play, the better you get.

Bottom line is that the Gophers seem to be gelling at the right time. And they can beat any of the three teams that stand in their way of a BT Tourney Championship. That takes it out of the hands of the selection committee and gives them momentum going into the NCAA tourney.

 

[Gopher Warrior]

I would think the selection committee would look at a team's body of work, not their roster. Plenty of teams lose players for various reasons, I don't think that factors in.

You may not think so, but losing a player most certainly does factor in. The selection committee talks about this every year.

Look at this quote from David Worlock, associate director of the Division I men’s basketball championship: “There isn’t an official statement [on injuries], but the committee does take into account the games missed by injured players during the course of the season and determines, to the extent possible, the impact the absence of those players had on those teams. This applies to both short-term and long-term injuries, as well as season-ending ones.”

There are a ton of examples out there (K Mart is a fun one). Who you are playing with and who you have played with are most certainly considerations of the selection committee.

 

[underground629]

You are right about injuries factoring in, at least for seeding. In any case, I was never talking about Nolen's effect on the selection committee. I was just saying that we aren't better off without him even though we're playing better right now while he's not eligible.

You may not think so, but losing a player most certainly does factor in. The selection committee talks about this every year.

Look at this quote from David Worlock, associate director of the Division I men’s basketball championship: “There isn’t an official statement [on injuries], but the committee does take into account the games missed by injured players during the course of the season and determines, to the extent possible, the impact the absence of those players had on those teams. This applies to both short-term and long-term injuries, as well as season-ending ones.”

There are a ton of examples out there (K Mart is a fun one). Who you are playing with and who you have played with are most certainly considerations of the selection committee.