Future of football--from StarTrib opinion page

They may have 160 -- but they don't collect fees from all those students. On average, schools collect fees from 65% of the kids. Also, if there are 2,000 fans, there many more of them than you think have a free pass. I know school budgets very well - a traditional top 10 program in one of the three biggest metro conferences takes in gate receipts totaling 20,000 for the entire year. School districts do not make money on athletics, they spend much more, in upper 6 figures to over 7 in a district of 5;000 students or more, than they take in for any type of revenue. Golf course fees, ice time, etc all add up.

You don't know what you are talking about, so don't just throw it out there. In fact, if you want real facts, not the fiction you are making up, message me and I'll be happy to show you all the facts you want.

What you say is true. I don't know the percentage but it is not uncommon for faculty to have a free pass to events and they typically can bring a guest for free too.
 

They may have 160 -- but they don't collect fees from all those students. On average, schools collect fees from 65% of the kids. Also, if there are 2,000 fans, there many more of them than you think have a free pass. I know school budgets very well - a traditional top 10 program in one of the three biggest metro conferences takes in gate receipts totaling 20,000 for the entire year. School districts do not make money on athletics, they spend much more, in upper 6 figures to over 7 in a district of 5;000 students or more, than they take in for any type of revenue. Golf course fees, ice time, etc all add up.

You don't know what you are talking about, so don't just throw it out there. In fact, if you want real facts, not the fiction you are making up, message me and I'll be happy to show you all the facts you want.


You're correct, districts do not make $ on athletics but football is the closest thing to it. PM me. We'll compare facts.
 

If football was so bad for you, one would expect the level of discourse on this board to be pathetic.

nm
 

It's not ridiculous at all. If our goal is to eliminate risk of injury then almost every sport is on the chopping block. We are talking about relative risk.

Sitting on the couch or at a desk all day has very real health effects. Just not as hyped as football concussions and the very small risk of long-term CTE.

Correct. Soon we'll have to ban working at a desk since those who site 8 hours a day are twice as likely to have coronary disease. In fact, the real danger here is life. If everyone were just dead, then the mortality rate of anything after would be 0. What a perfect world.

As we all learned (and if you haven't seen it you should) in Kentucky Fried Movie: The #1 killer in America is...Death.
 



I am afraid Dean S has missed your point. I wonder if he has ever heard of unattended consequences? Trade offs? Probably not since he has stated that he only uses facts.

Why, yes I have, with a different word. Except, when those consequences occurred, I was there to observe them, unlike your post, which is comparatively absent.
 


With the information the NFL hid for years, they bought themselves additional years of keeping the sport alive.
Their goal has to be to keep the people in the south and other lower socio-economic areas ignorant of the studies that are out there.

It isn't just concussions, as someone said earlier. It's the on-going bumping lineman face game after game, down after down that jostles their heads and slowly causes brain damage. (Two words the NFL will never say by the way).

The studies are staggering, and being a huge football fan, I don't let my kids play football because I'm aware of the dangers. I can't forgive myself if I let them play even a season and then when I'm 75-80, I see them take their own life because of the effects of football contact.

My kids play soccer, and my oldest doesn't do headers. People try to make the other sports seem like they are also filled with injuries, but any substantial scientific comparison shows how bad football is to your health.

Ignorant parents will continue to turn a blind eye to it, but it will kill the sport as we know it.
You'll have a game of "field basketball" as a sport. (Which is why you are starting to see NFL TE's succeed who were former basketball players).

If you watched the pro-bowl, you saw what the future of the game will be.

Eventually however, the numbers of players will dwindle and soccer will gain in the popularity.


I can't believe the NHL still lets players fight by the way. There is a lawsuit waiting to happen.

(Yes, we knowingly let players swing at each other's heads before we stop them and we don't deter them by giving 15 game bans everytime they throw a punch).
 

With the information the NFL hid for years, they bought themselves additional years of keeping the sport alive.
Their goal has to be to keep the people in the south and other lower socio-economic areas ignorant of the studies that are out there.

It isn't just concussions, as someone said earlier. It's the on-going bumping lineman face game after game, down after down that jostles their heads and slowly causes brain damage. (Two words the NFL will never say by the way).

The studies are staggering, and being a huge football fan, I don't let my kids play football because I'm aware of the dangers. I can't forgive myself if I let them play even a season and then when I'm 75-80, I see them take their own life because of the effects of football contact.

My kids play soccer, and my oldest doesn't do headers. People try to make the other sports seem like they are also filled with injuries, but any substantial scientific comparison shows how bad football is to your health.

Ignorant parents will continue to turn a blind eye to it, but it will kill the sport as we know it.
You'll have a game of "field basketball" as a sport. (Which is why you are starting to see NFL TE's succeed who were former basketball players).

If you watched the pro-bowl, you saw what the future of the game will be.

Eventually however, the numbers of players will dwindle and soccer will gain in the popularity.


I can't believe the NHL still lets players fight by the way. There is a lawsuit waiting to happen.

(Yes, we knowingly let players swing at each other's heads before we stop them and we don't deter them by giving 15 game bans everytime they throw a punch).

Wow, so many things to debunk here.
It couldn't just be that some people enjoy playing football regardless of where they live or what their background is. Ever talk to a kid that plays football? They LOVE football.

The head bumping thing that's been brought up several times is way overblown, I don't know why this keeps coming up.

Dramatic much? How many kids going back many years have played football? There's no suicide issue with them.

I have gone through the MNSHSL concussion training, the report the numbers of concussions for each sport. It's frankly more worrisome that girls soccer has as many as they do than football does. The numbers are not shocking. Fearmongering like you have here is inexcusable.

Parents can do what they want, think what they want that's the whole point. Their no more ignorant about anything just because they let their kids play a sport you are afraid will end the world.

Passing leagues and "pro bowl field basketball" aren't neccesery, but might be a good youth football intro. Not a terrible idea for football before HS.

Soccer is awful. Sorry it just is. The two sports have nothing to do with each other and won't be competing for the same kids. What happens when the soccer concussions skyrocket from headers and slide tackles? Switch to golf?

The NHL fighting is way worse than anything in football, they also have nothing to do with each other. Fighting in hockey doesn't prove football is dangerous.
 



Wow, so many things to debunk here.
It couldn't just be that some people enjoy playing football regardless of where they live or what their background is. Ever talk to a kid that plays football? They LOVE football.

The head bumping thing that's been brought up several times is way overblown, I don't know why this keeps coming up.

Dramatic much? How many kids going back many years have played football? There's no suicide issue with them.

I have gone through the MNSHSL concussion training, the report the numbers of concussions for each sport. It's frankly more worrisome that girls soccer has as many as they do than football does. The numbers are not shocking. Fearmongering like you have here is inexcusable.

Parents can do what they want, think what they want that's the whole point. Their no more ignorant about anything just because they let their kids play a sport you are afraid will end the world.

Passing leagues and "pro bowl field basketball" aren't neccesery, but might be a good youth football intro. Not a terrible idea for football before HS.

Soccer is awful. Sorry it just is. The two sports have nothing to do with each other and won't be competing for the same kids. What happens when the soccer concussions skyrocket from headers and slide tackles? Switch to golf?

The NHL fighting is way worse than anything in football, they also have nothing to do with each other. Fighting in hockey doesn't prove football is dangerous.

NHL fighting is ridiculous.
The head bumping thing keeps coming up because of the scientific proof. I know, ignore it... believe what you want to believe. It won't happen to me or my kids, right?

The smarter parents who are aware of the difference in danger will choose soccer. Soccer is gaining in popularity, while the number of kids playing football declines.
I know you like football more and so do some kids. Good for you. The trend shows otherwise. Soccer, other than being the most popular sport world wide "is awful" according to you. That sounds like scientific proof.

Any mother with a college degree should be able to figure out what the risks of football injuries are. Just watch the Super Bowl tonight. In the first quarter another guy injured. But we don't even blink and eye to it because it's expected. That's how messed up the sport is when it comes to injuries. Seattle's whole secondary is playing injured.

Barely any injuries in football though... is that the argument?
 

You're correct, districts do not make $ on athletics but football is the closest thing to it. PM me. We'll compare facts.

I don't need to compare facts. I have the facts as I work with the data. Schools do not make money on football, and run a significant deficit overall that is paid out of the General Fund.
 

Tonight was a good example of the injuries in football.
Seattle had two defensive starters get injured in the Super Bowl and didn't come back to play. (One concussion related).
Football is riddled with injuries.
 

Tonight was a good example of the injuries in football.
Seattle had two defensive starters get injured in the Super Bowl and didn't come back to play. (One concussion related).
Football is riddled with injuries.

Yep, they probably shouldn't have played the Super Bowl at all!
Life is riddled with injuries, it's our personal choices that decide which ones we incur.
I'd love to see a peer reviewed scientific paper that shows your head bumping theory has merit. Please post it.
 



Yep, they probably shouldn't have played the Super Bowl at all!
Life is riddled with injuries, it's our personal choices that decide which ones we incur.
I'd love to see a peer reviewed scientific paper that shows your head bumping theory has merit. Please post it.

If it's a play at your own risk situation, then I wouldn't expect folks here to feel sad for Ben Utecht when he says that his greatest fear is knowing that someday he won't recognize his wife and children.
 

If it's a play at your own risk situation, then I wouldn't expect folks here to feel sad for Ben Utecht when he says that his greatest fear is knowing that someday he won't recognize his wife and children.

I don't.
Listen to Matt Birk's thoughts on it. He's a smart guy. 7 kids. Multiple serious injuries. Doesn't regret any of it and would do it all again because he has a passion for the sport. It's about personal choice, nobody is ignorant, football is a collision sport and people get hurt playing it, but it is also very rewarding to a lot of people who play it.
 

If it's a play at your own risk situation, then I wouldn't expect folks here to feel sad for Ben Utecht when he says that his greatest fear is knowing that someday he won't recognize his wife and children.

I don't feel bad for Ben. It was his choice to play, he wasn't forced. He could have hung up after his first concussion instead he had at least 4 more because he wanted to make a lot of money and live his dream.
 

The game is going to change. The question is who is going to make the changes. It's fine to say "they chose to play", but that doesn't stop changes from happening. If other people make the changes, you might not like the changes you get.

Sent from my LG-L38C using Tapatalk 2
 

Schools rarely charge the same for football as they do for other sports in the metro. Football generates revenue for many schools and districts. $20,000 gates on Friday nights cure many deficits. Hockey on the other hand doesn't have a chance due to the cost of ice.

I have access to the numbers from our athletic department. Football makes our school about 14K a year (High expenses, but ticket revenue is higher). Boys and Girls Hockey combined cost us 55K a year and there isn't another sport that cost more than 6K. Hockey game revenue is negligible compared to the cost and most Hockey arenas can't even hold the number of fans it would take to make a difference. That's with a sweet heart deal for ice rental from Mystic. Probably closer to a 75K loser for most schools. Eliminating football at the high school level isn't a cost savings, but it also doesn't fund as much as you might think.
 

The whole lineman head thing is interesting. Maybe we should study all the headbangers from the 80s and 90s and see what kind of impact that has. And then ban all heavy metal music when nothing is proven.
 

I don't.
Listen to Matt Birk's thoughts on it. He's a smart guy. 7 kids. Multiple serious injuries. Doesn't regret any of it and would do it all again because he has a passion for the sport. It's about personal choice, nobody is ignorant, football is a collision sport and people get hurt playing it, but it is also very rewarding to a lot of people who play it.
Matt is an unbiased source. .. NFL employee.
 

Matt is an unbiased source. .. NFL employee.
Post that article with your scientific data or stop perpetuating your opinion as proven fact.
Birk is more unbiased than you are at this point.
 

Post that article with your scientific data or stop perpetuating your opinion as proven fact.
Birk is more unbiased than you are at this point.
I don't need to spend my time educating you on stuff you are choosing to be ignorant about. It is a fools game for me to try and teach someone who doesn't want to learn.
 

I'm not believing a culture that allows Ultimate Fighting and Boxing is going to roll over on football. The most popular new sporting events (X games) are all more physically dangerous than football. Probably see youth football modified with more years of flag prior to real contact, but it's not going away.
 

I have access to the numbers from our athletic department. Football makes our school about 14K a year (High expenses, but ticket revenue is higher). Boys and Girls Hockey combined cost us 55K a year and there isn't another sport that cost more than 6K. Hockey game revenue is negligible compared to the cost and most Hockey arenas can't even hold the number of fans it would take to make a difference. That's with a sweet heart deal for ice rental from Mystic. Probably closer to a 75K loser for most schools. Eliminating football at the high school level isn't a cost savings, but it also doesn't fund as much as you might think.
Thanks for the numbers. It has always seemed odd to me the support of the HS Hockey tournament vs. the attendance and excitement around regular season games.

How do youth hockey teams break even? I imagine the player fees are higher than the activity fees the high schoolers pay, but transportation might play a part too?
 



Thanks!

Ok.

A few things:
1)I'm glad they are researching this, it's a legit study, it's done by real scientists, good. Knowledge is power.

2)Even these scientists didn't make conclusions that support a massive overhaul of the sport. In fact they cite several sources that find contrary to their data. About all you can pull from this is they are able to test a blood marker that seems to correlate with brain injury. They don't know what it does though, and it's not a perfect model since it's seen at widely varying levels in different patients.

3)They have a small amount of players to pull from here, which sounds like they couldn't herd a bunch of football players into the clinic consistently. I would expect they are going to work on a bigger study with a better distribution of ages, races, and other variables. They admit diet, environment, and socioeconomics are not accounted for.

4) In this small group they find a wide varying amount of their blood marker among players. In some it actually goes down over the season. In a few it skyrockets.

5)The big thing for me though is that they take baseline measurements of the players and find no correlation to the blood marker in players that have had concussions previously over those that didn't. So they are NOT drawing a conclusion that this blood marker remains high constantly. They hypothesize that short term spikes in the level could essentially cause an auto immune response, but don't conclude that.
They also don't add any comparative data on what the levels are like in other sports, daily activities, or possible cofactors like drinking, smoking. It's certainly possible they will do the same study in other sports and find similar results.

6)They are going to get to study this further, which is good. However since conspiracy theories are in play it should be noted that they are the patent holders for the detection of this blood marker they base this hypothesis from. It doesn't discount them from presenting good data, but it does beg for others to find independent ways of studying the potential for long term brain injuries in football players.

I'll add that the media links provided by this website hosting the paper DO draw conclusions. Which is irresponsible and the likely source of consternation among people interested in the subject.
There are over a dozen links claiming things this paper does not, just in their headlines.

Thanks for that. Still doesn't bring fear and imminent death upon all who play football though.
 

I'm not believing a culture that allows Ultimate Fighting and Boxing is going to roll over on football. The most popular new sporting events (X games) are all more physically dangerous than football. Probably see youth football modified with more years of flag prior to real contact, but it's not going away.

I think a couple difference.

1. Football has been a youth sport so that's a bit different than boxing and Ultimate Fighting.

2. NFL covered up and created their own "scientific" studies for years stating there as no connection between concussions and brain damage. (This is why they are getting sued by ex-players). Ultimate Fighting and Boxing Federations might be doing a better job of explaining this risk to players.

3. Football is a team game. To field a team, you need 11 players. That's why the game is a bit more at risk needing large teams to participate.
More parents are saying, "You can play baseball, soccer, or basketball, but no football or hockey."



Just watching football, (and I love watching it as much as anyone), you see injuries on a weekly basis showing how dangerous it is.

In football, almost every play ends with at least one player physically beat who was brought to the ground against their own physical will. The ground doesn't move. What does that tell you?
 

I think a couple difference.

1. Football has been a youth sport so that's a bit different than boxing and Ultimate Fighting.

2. NFL covered up and created their own "scientific" studies for years stating there as no connection between concussions and brain damage. (This is why they are getting sued by ex-players). Ultimate Fighting and Boxing Federations might be doing a better job of explaining this risk to players.

3. Football is a team game. To field a team, you need 11 players. That's why the game is a bit more at risk needing large teams to participate.
More parents are saying, "You can play baseball, soccer, or basketball, but no football or hockey."



Just watching football, (and I love watching it as much as anyone), you see injuries on a weekly basis showing how dangerous it is.

In football, almost every play ends with at least one player physically beat who was brought to the ground against their own physical will. The ground doesn't move. What does that tell you?

That tells you nothing.
You are connecting dots that can't be connected here, and it's scientifically irresponsible. The ONLY thing we know right now is more research is needed, because no conclusions can be drawn from the previous studies. Stop believing media headlines and read that paper carefully. There is nothing in there definitive enough for you to be so alarmist.
 

OMG, s100b is elevated after football games??

Better not get off that couch. Hold on to your hats.


Sports Med. 2014 Mar;44(3):369-85. doi: 10.1007/s40279-013-0119-9.
S100B as a marker for brain damage and blood-brain barrier disruption following exercise.
Koh SX1, Lee JK.
Author information

Erratum in
Sports Med. 2014 Jun;44(6):867.
Abstract
BACKGROUND:
S100B level in the blood has been used as a marker for brain damage and blood-brain barrier (BBB) disruption. Elevations of S100B levels after exercise have been observed, suggesting that the BBB may be compromised during exercise. However, an increase in S100B levels may be confounded by other variables.
OBJECTIVES:
The primary objective of this review was to compile findings on the relationship between S100B and exercise in order to determine if this protein is a valid marker for BBB disruptions during exercise. The secondary objective was to consolidate known factors causing S100B increases that may give rise to inaccurate interpretations of S100B levels.
DATA SOURCES AND STUDY SELECTION:
PubMed, Web of Science and ScienceDirect were searched for relevant studies up to January 2013, in which S100B measurements were taken after a bout of exercise. Animal studies were excluded. Variables of interest such as the type of activity, exercise intensities, duration, detection methods, presence and extent of head trauma were examined and compiled.
RESULTS:
This review included 23 studies; 15 (65 %) reported S100B increases after exercise, and among these, ten reported S100B increases regardless of intervention, while five reported increases in only some trials but not others. Eight (35 %) studies reported no increases in S100B levels across all trials. Most baseline S100B levels fall below 0.16 μg/L, with an increase in S100B levels of less than 0.07 μg/L following exercise. Factors that are likely to affect S100B levels include exercise intensity, and duration, presence and extent of head trauma. Several other probable factors influencing S100B elevations are muscle breakdown, level of training and oxidative stress, but current findings are still weak and inconclusive.
CONCLUSIONS:
Elevated S100B levels have been recorded following exercise and are mostly attributed to either an increase in BBB permeability or trauma to the head. However, even in the absence of head trauma, it appears that the BBB may be compromised following exercise, with the severity dependent on exercise intensity.
PMID: 24194479 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
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The problem we have is that not a single person will go on record with the incidence or prevalence of CTE in pro, college, or k-12 leagues. To my knowledge, there are roughly 12-15000 living former NFL players yet only about 33 cases of CTE (clinical symptoms).

These researchers bury the many, many caveats to their studies in the discussion section.

No matter. Most autism victims had the MMR vaccine, ergo, it's the vaccine. Scientific fact.
 




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