Fleck's Ego

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RogueGopher said:
Imagine being upset that the team you love scored a TD. You play hard for 60 minutes.
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Yeh, this is the part that amuses me.
We now have fans with such high standards that some TD's aren't good enough for our historic and proud program.

Not only did the dog poop in the house, we have to make sure we stick the dogs nose in it to make sure they learn to never trail 35-0 AGAIN!

If we don't stick the dogs nose in it, we'll just keep losing to Iowa 35-0 every year, and pretending it was 35-7 will only make things WORSE!
 

Tommyboy said:
Now we are sounding desperate
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Yeh.
Well, if we get talent we will win.
We are according to rankings and based on other schools offers, getting better talent.

Some would argue the talent has been a big MISS, but not many people are naming names other than MSM.

One poster said everyone who started on defense is a bust (or close to it). I'm sure he would deny it if asked directly.
 

FTF - I think a lot of the angst has to do with this:

after last year, a lot of fans hoped/thought that this kind of stuff was behind us. That the Gophers would be competitive with their rivals, and not be in a position where they have to call a time out with 19 seconds left so they can score a TD and avoid a shutout.

We're not talking about a 7-point loss in a well-played game. we're talking about a 35 or 28-point loss in a game where the Gophers were not competitive. Not by any measure.

The Gophers are coming off one of the best seasons in school history (noting for the record that school history includes national championships).

And now, we're right back at the point where they have to score a TD just to avoid getting shut out by Iowa.

That's why people are upset. it's like last year never happened. It was like a Twilight Zone episode where we just dreamed the Gophers won 11 games. and now we've woken up, the Gophers are back in the Wacker or Brewster days, and Rod Serling is smoking a cigarette and giving the closing narration.
 

He has had four years of recruiting, how man years does he need making 3-4 million per year, he would probably say, as many as you give me.
 

Go Gophs said:
Hasn't this been proven here that changing coaches like you change your undewear doesn't get you anywhere? Look around at the top programs. Even the solid ones. They have consitency, coaching staffs that have been there for years.

Firing him and going through another rebuild puts you in the same spot you were when you fired Mason, or Wacker, or any of them. Stick with PJ, let him take some lumps and understand that he is a hard worker that will make this happen.
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We are currently seven years into that approach with the BBall squad. Fleck's staff has already experienced a good amount of turnover. I said depending how the rest of this year goes, his seat could get warm. If he has an average 2021 season, like .500 or below, it could get hot going into 2022, which is year six (five if you start at Year Zero).

Only 12 FBS HC have been in their current positions for more than 10 years, only 30 have been in their current positions for more than 5 years.
 


Some guy said:
For sure, the program doesn’t develop people

Do you want to give it another 2 years or should be just cut bait?
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I think you're missing my point.
I'm not saying we don't develop talent, I'm saying we are a developmental program, PJ has said as much. To develop talent players need to get playing time. When you have two games that are blow outs, that is a time to get different players a chance to start developing. Start with the big time players in Mo, Rashad and Tanner, then gradually get in others as well.
I don't see why the starters need to play any longer once the game is out of reach like it was the past two games.
 

PMWinSTP said:
We are currently seven years into that approach with the BBall squad. Fleck's staff has already experienced a good amount of turnover. I said depending how the rest of this year goes, his seat could get warm. If he has an average 2021 season, like .500 or below, it could get hot going into 2022, which is year six (five if you start at Year Zero).

Only 12 FBS HC have been in their current positions for more than 10 years, only 30 have been in their current positions for more than 5 years.
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Good Lord. Where do these people come from? This is why MN has sucked for 50 years.
 

LesBolstad said:
Good Lord. Where do these people come from? This is why MN has sucked for 50 years.
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Not sure if that is directed at me. So you don't think his seat could get hot heading into 2022 if Gophs go 1-8 or 2-7 this year and 5-7 in 2021? He would be .500 or less overall as Gophs HC. His ability to recruit at a higher level would be severely damaged.
 

Big loss was last years Iowa loss. Up until then it was balls to the wall and then peeJ played conservatively and loss and then tried the same against wi and lost. Again, the big loss was Iowa in 2019 it was theeeeeeee game to all out and win.
 



Spaulding!No! said:
Big loss was last years Iowa loss. Up until then it was balls to the wall and then peeJ played conservatively and loss and then tried the same against wi and lost. Again, the big loss was Iowa in 2019 it was theeeeeeee game to all out and win.
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They had it won but for a TJ drop and and PJ brain lapse. The WI game was not winnable due the weathers impact on our offense.
 

PMWinSTP said:
Not sure if that is directed at me. So you don't think his seat could get hot heading into 2022 if Gophs go 1-8 or 2-7 this year and 5-7 in 2021? He would be .500 or less overall as Gophs HC. His ability to recruit at a higher level would be severely damaged.
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I'd add that in that scenario, his best years would have been with many productive players that weren't his.
 


GFBfan said:
I think you're missing my point.
I'm not saying we don't develop talent, I'm saying we are a developmental program, PJ has said as much. To develop talent players need to get playing time. When you have two games that are blow outs, that is a time to get different players a chance to start developing. Start with the big time players in Mo, Rashad and Tanner, then gradually get in others as well.
I don't see why the starters need to play any longer once the game is out of reach like it was the past two games.
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You criticizing on a message board really will change things.

basically it comes down to this. Do you think we should give the program more time to do it the way the leader of the program wants to do it or do you want to make a change.

im not ready to make a change yet.
I might disagree with things the coach does or says but it doesn’t really matter what I think other than if I’m still going to buy tickets
 




PMWinSTP said:
Not sure if that is directed at me. So you don't think his seat could get hot heading into 2022 if Gophs go 1-8 or 2-7 this year and 5-7 in 2021? He would be .500 or less overall as Gophs HC. His ability to recruit at a higher level would be severely damaged.
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You’re ready for him to go after Covid year plus 1 if we are .500 next fall?

got it


That’s fine if you think that. I wanted Pitino gone before many others did. So I get it.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
FTF - I think a lot of the angst has to do with this:

after last year, a lot of fans hoped/thought that this kind of stuff was behind us. That the Gophers would be competitive with their rivals, and not be in a position where they have to call a time out with 19 seconds left so they can score a TD and avoid a shutout.

We're not talking about a 7-point loss in a well-played game. we're talking about a 35 or 28-point loss in a game where the Gophers were not competitive. Not by any measure.

The Gophers are coming off one of the best seasons in school history (noting for the record that school history includes national championships).

And now, we're right back at the point where they have to score a TD just to avoid getting shut out by Iowa.

That's why people are upset. it's like last year never happened. It was like a Twilight Zone episode where we just dreamed the Gophers won 11 games. and now we've woken up, the Gophers are back in the Wacker or Brewster days, and Rod Serling is smoking a cigarette and giving the closing narration.
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If you think it’s like last year never happened you’re kidding yourself.

If you think going 7-6, 11-2, 2-7 is like wacker and Brewster you are kidding yourself

if you thought 11-2 meant the program would never have a losing season again you’re kidding yourself


This season is EXTREMELY disappointing...but the gophers have been awful with spurts of mediocre since the mid 1970s
Meanwhile Michigan and Penn state have a combined one win. And we are supposed to just never be worse than 6-3 in conference again?
You’re kidding yourself.


I’m extremely disappointed in this season. That’s probably enough. It probably doesn’t need to impact my day to day life.
 

Some guy said:
You’re ready for him to go after Covid year plus 1 if we are .500 next fall?

got it


That’s fine if you think that. I wanted Pitino gone before many others did. So I get it.
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Not what I posted. I posted seat could get hot going into 2022, didn't say anything about letting him go. 2022 would be Fleck's sixth season.
 


short ornery norwegian said:
FTF - I think a lot of the angst has to do with this:

after last year, a lot of fans hoped/thought that this kind of stuff was behind us. That the Gophers would be competitive with their rivals, and not be in a position where they have to call a time out with 19 seconds left so they can score a TD and avoid a shutout.

We're not talking about a 7-point loss in a well-played game. we're talking about a 35 or 28-point loss in a game where the Gophers were not competitive. Not by any measure.

The Gophers are coming off one of the best seasons in school history (noting for the record that school history includes national championships).

And now, we're right back at the point where they have to score a TD just to avoid getting shut out by Iowa.

That's why people are upset. it's like last year never happened. It was like a Twilight Zone episode where we just dreamed the Gophers won 11 games. and now we've woken up, the Gophers are back in the Wacker or Brewster days, and Rod Serling is smoking a cigarette and giving the closing narration.
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People were blind to the defense not having experience. I was guilty. I assumed guys with no experience would jump right in and be good. They weren't. They will all get better in a year that they won't lose any eligibility. Couple that with a normal off-season and hopefully we will all forget 2020 in 2021.
 

Some guy said:
PJ brain lapse really had no impact on game
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You know 20x more than I do about gopher football but you have to admit pj had a coaching flop against IA last year. Oh changed the o for the 1st half and ran outa clock in the end. No bigger game since 1960s
 

MaxyJR1 said:
People were blind to the defense not having experience. I was guilty. I assumed guys with no experience would jump right in and be good. They weren't. They will all get better in a year that they won't lose any eligibility. Couple that with a normal off-season and hopefully we will all forget 2020 in 2021.
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Yeah this thread is pathetic. Find something to dislike cause we lost some games. Does anyone else remember last year? Lets wait for the year to end. We are inexperienced and Fleck is ultra conservative especially at the start of the year. He's not going to change his process because this year is different.
 

We are all frustrated and disappointed in the poor display of football we witnessed by our team. Is PJ going to be fired? NO is his seat warm? NO. He is the best coach since Mason ( & probably better). I am glad PJ tried to put points on the board, nothing worse than getting skunked at home.

We lost a lot of leaders and good players on defense. Fleck's early recruits have not filled in the gaps. MSM is not good, should not be starting.The offense is not exciting at all, thats a big problem. I'm missing Ciarocca big time. I think he should strongly reconsider Mike Sandford Jr's place with the program. SHAPE UP or SHIP OUT

To people who think PJ's schtick is wearing thin, what would you be telling your team that is 1-3? Keep trying, don't stop, the wins will come. I think the Row the Boat mantra is as good as any. Gopher fans are miserable right now and they're mad that our flashy coach is starting to resemble the used car salesman that many rival fanbases think he is. Hang in there and deal with it. We will get better.
 

LesBolstad said:
They had it won but for a TJ drop and and PJ brain lapse. The WI game was not winnable due the weathers impact on our offense.
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I believe if memory serves me that the WI QB made a very long TD pass in the snow.

Everyone including the snow clouds are against MN and it only mostly snowed on MN.
 

TurfGopher said:
We are all frustrated and disappointed in the poor display of football we witnessed by our team. Is PJ going to be fired? NO is his seat warm? NO. He is the best coach since Mason ( & probably better). I am glad PJ tried to put points on the board, nothing worse than getting skunked at home.

We lost a lot of leaders and good players on defense. Fleck's early recruits have not filled in the gaps. MSM is not good, should not be starting.The offense is not exciting at all, thats a big problem. I'm missing Ciarocca big time. I think he should strongly reconsider Mike Sandford Jr's place with the program. SHAPE UP or SHIP OUT

To people who think PJ's schtick is wearing thin, what would you be telling your team that is 1-3? Keep trying, don't stop, the wins will come. I think the Row the Boat mantra is as good as any. Gopher fans are miserable right now and they're mad that our flashy coach is starting to resemble the used car salesman that many rival fanbases think he is. Hang in there and deal with it. We will get better.
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What brand of Kool Aid are you drinking?
 



short ornery norwegian said:
FTF - I think a lot of the angst has to do with this:

after last year, a lot of fans hoped/thought that this kind of stuff was behind us. That the Gophers would be competitive with their rivals, and not be in a position where they have to call a time out with 19 seconds left so they can score a TD and avoid a shutout.

We're not talking about a 7-point loss in a well-played game. we're talking about a 35 or 28-point loss in a game where the Gophers were not competitive. Not by any measure.

The Gophers are coming off one of the best seasons in school history (noting for the record that school history includes national championships).

And now, we're right back at the point where they have to score a TD just to avoid getting shut out by Iowa.

That's why people are upset. it's like last year never happened. It was like a Twilight Zone episode where we just dreamed the Gophers won 11 games. and now we've woken up, the Gophers are back in the Wacker or Brewster days, and Rod Serling is smoking a cigarette and giving the closing narration.
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I think the fundamental difference is people thought once we hit 10 - 11 wins, that we would never be in the 5-7 win mediocrity range again.

Well, fourth year into a program, we're mediocre or bad. Hard to say. If we had some non-conf games and we lost, then we'd KNOW we are really bad.

Regardless, seeing we cashed in on a good season last year with a lot of Seniors, it's not shocking our defense is worse. I'm shocked it's SO MUCH worse, but it's not like this means we suck forver.

Some thing it's a coordinator issue.
Some thing it's a recruiting issue.
Some thing it's a development issue.

I think it could be any of those, but I DO think it's an inexperience issue.

Barry Alvarez is the gold-standard for turning a program around.
en.wikipedia.org

Barry Alvarez - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

He had a 1995 season.

I just don't think it's time to panic on PJ yet.
 

Some guy said:
You criticizing on a message board really will change things.

basically it comes down to this. Do you think we should give the program more time to do it the way the leader of the program wants to do it or do you want to make a change.

im not ready to make a change yet.
I might disagree with things the coach does or says but it doesn’t really matter what I think other than if I’m still going to buy tickets
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At no point in time have I ever said we should look at getting rid of PJ. Why are you so defensive?

If a message board can't include criticism, why have one?

I find it odd that a developmental program doesn't take the opportunity to, you know, develop players in games when presented with cases for that. Blow out wins and losses are those times to let the younger, inexperienced players get their feet wet in D1 football. It's not a time to pad stats for starters.
Take any position on the team. You really think a Soph., Fr, or Redshirt Fr. wants to practice every day with no chance of seeing the field, unless there's an injury, because we play the starters the whole game regardless of score? I would think a lot of them would want to transfer to get some actual playing time.
 

GFBfan said:
At no point in time have I ever said we should look at getting rid of PJ. Why are you so defensive?

If a message board can't include criticism, why have one?

I find it odd that a developmental program doesn't take the opportunity to, you know, develop players in games when presented with cases for that. Blow out wins and losses are those times to let the younger, inexperienced players get their feet wet in D1 football. It's not a time to pad stats for starters.
Take any position on the team. You really think a Soph., Fr, or Redshirt Fr. wants to practice every day with no chance of seeing the field, unless there's an injury, because we play the starters the whole game regardless of score? I would think a lot of them would want to transfer to get some actual playing time.
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If they transfer because they feel this way, they transfer.

It's the coaches job to know if this is a possible risk for playing someone or not playing someone.

It's really detached for us as fans to try to analyze each player and how them sitting on the bench, vs. getting playing time, might contribute to a decision to transfer (or alternatively) buy-in and work harder.

If 10 players transfer out at the end of the year, we might have an answer. If we only have 1 or 2 players transfer out, maybe we don't.

In either case, can we even attribute it to playing time, vs a desire to play closer to home / closer to a girlfriend / somewhere where they can play a position they desire?
 

Face The Facts said:
If they transfer because they feel this way, they transfer.

It's the coaches job to know if this is a possible risk for playing someone or not playing someone.

It's really detached for us as fans to try to analyze each player and how them sitting on the bench, vs. getting playing time, might contribute to a decision to transfer (or alternatively) buy-in and work harder.

If 10 players transfer out at the end of the year, we might have an answer. If we only have 1 or 2 players transfer out, maybe we don't.

In either case, can we even attribute it to playing time, vs a desire to play closer to home / closer to a girlfriend / somewhere where they can play a position they desire?
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The only way to not be an inexperienced team is to, you know, play inexperienced players. There has been plenty opportunities for mixing in players over these games.
 

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