Fleck post-game on KFAN on Purdue: They’re explosive, they’ve been explosive all year...

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WHB Brewer said:
we were no longer the only B10 team recruitiing black athletes from the South and East Coast. The others adapted
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I've heard this explanation before. I thought I'd look up a few of the Big 10 schools to see when they first had a black player. Here's what I found: Iowa 1895 Wisc 1929 NW 1893 Mich 1890 MSU 1913.
 

FanSinceTheFifties said:
I've heard this explanation before. I thought I'd look up a few of the Big 10 schools to see when they first had a black player. Here's what I found: Iowa 1895 Wisc 1929 NW 1893 Mich 1890 MSU 1913.
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The point is - the last great era of Gopher football was built on Black athletes who could not be admitted to Southern schools due to segregation. Segregation ended - and now those same athletes who used to go north out of necessity at least had the choice to stay home in the South.

MN wound up relying more on Midwest athletes while trying to land a few players from the South - but it became much more difficult for MN to land the really skilled athletes - the ones with superior athletic ability and speed.

and as the MN program began to slide, that just made it even harder to recruit top athletes. So now in the Star Rating era, MN has rosters with mostly 3-star players and a few 4-stars, while the Helmet programs have multiple 4-stars and the occasional 5-star, creating a talent gap that MN is still fighting against.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
The point is - the last great era of Gopher football was built on Black athletes who could not be admitted to Southern schools due to segregation. Segregation ended - and now those same athletes who used to go north out of necessity at least had the choice to stay home in the South.

MN wound up relying more on Midwest athletes while trying to land a few players from the South - but it became much more difficult for MN to land the really skilled athletes - the ones with superior athletic ability and speed.

and as the MN program began to slide, that just made it even harder to recruit top athletes. So now in the Star Rating era, MN has rosters with mostly 3-star players and a few 4-stars, while the Helmet programs have multiple 4-stars and the occasional 5-star, creating a talent gap that MN is still fighting against.
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That seems to be the prevailing explanation. I wonder why Iowa, Wisconsin, Michigan, et al survived with the loss of these Southern athletes?
 

forever a gopher said:
We have too many offensive injuries? Cooper was back today. Maybe I’m missing somebody, but it’s Williams, Taylor, and Brockington that are out. Every team has injuries this time of year. Having Taylor would be nice, but with how the D played today, that would have made zero difference. Iowa is playing a fat, slow, inaccurate backup QB and somehow keeps winning.

The injuries and “young” excuses are ringing hollow.

Thanks for the transcript, GL.
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Yep! 12 of yesterday's 22 starters would be on their last year of football (pre-covid rule).
Youngest to oldest:
1 RS Freshman
4 RS Sophomores
2 Juniors
3 RS Juniors
4 Seniors
2 RS Seniors
4 5th year Seniors
2 6th year Seniors
If that doesn't scream young, I don't know what does (sarcasm...smh!).
 

OddStack said:
Yep! 12 of yesterday's 22 starters would be on their last year of football (pre-covid rule).
Youngest to oldest:
1 RS Freshman
4 RS Sophomores
2 Juniors
3 RS Juniors
4 Seniors
2 RS Seniors
4 5th year Seniors
2 6th year Seniors
If that doesn't scream young, I don't know what does (sarcasm...smh!).
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Thanks for putting this together. I'm not sure how PJ defines "young", but it sure seems to not align with reality. If you start to look at backups, maybe. But that probably applies to most teams in the free-transfer era.
 


FanSinceTheFifties said:
That seems to be the prevailing explanation. I wonder why Iowa, Wisconsin, Michigan, et al survived with the loss of these Southern athletes?
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Wisconsin didnt. They were terrible until Alvarez.
Iowa didn’t, they were terrible until Fry

Michigan did. But they have one national title since integration. They have 10 national titles before integration.
I’m not sure the point you make here is as good as you think.
 

forever a gopher said:
Thanks for putting this together. I'm not sure how PJ defines "young", but it sure seems to not align with reality. If you start to look at backups, maybe. But that probably applies to most teams in the free-transfer era.
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Young has more to do with experience than age. IMO
 

Making statements like Purdue being explosive really hurts credibility.

Fleck is a good coach but sometimes you just have to admit you got smoked and move on.

It really looks like Minnesota blew their wad against Iowa and haven't looked the same since. Even the MSU game was a struggle for 3 quarters. Luckily for the Gophers MSU is awful & could't take advantage of the great field position they had early.
 

Xerxes_ said:
Making statements like Purdue being explosive really hurts credibility.
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It literally has no impact on credibility
Xerxes_ said:
Fleck is a good coach but sometimes you just have to admit you got smoked and move on.
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He pretty much said that in my option.
Xerxes_ said:
It really looks like Minnesota blew their wad against Iowa and haven't looked the same since. Even the MSU game was a struggle for 3 quarters. Luckily for the Gophers MSU is awful & could't take advantage of the great field position they had early.
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Yeah. When you’re mediocre it’s hard to win every week
 



Some guy said:
Young has more to do with experience than age. IMO
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If that's how we (PJ) is defining this, at least it makes a bit more sense. However, that's "inexperienced", not "young". Two different things. With that said, we don't get to have it both ways. I believe we had the most COVID super seniors on the team last year, so he chose to push those guys to come back and thereby block playing time for the younger guys. We got the benefit last year, so we can't cry foul this year when we have to pay the piper.
 

forever a gopher said:
If that's how we (PJ) is defining this, at least it makes a bit more sense. However, that's "inexperienced", not "young". Two different things. With that said, we don't get to have it both ways. I believe we had the most COVID super seniors on the team last year, so he chose to push those guys to come back and thereby block playing time for the younger guys. We got the benefit last year, so we can't cry foul this year when we have to pay the piper.
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Talking about reality is not having it both ways

The team is inexperienced. That’s a factual statement. It has nothing to do with last year’s team

Who is crying foul? (Other than you)



“You don’t get to say there was a true freshmen playing inside backer since there was a senior last year”
-you
 

He needs to start rowing to another port. He cant bring in high grade players.
 






zman said:
Never said he did know nor care. And that's not what you said.
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You not liking what he said doesn’t mean he lost credibility
He did not

Not really an opinion. He lost credibility with no one who matters
 

Some guy said:
You not liking what he said doesn’t mean he lost credibility
He did not

Not really an opinion. He lost credibility with no one who matters
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Sure he did. He and Coyle are masters of the double speak nonsense, and people notice that. The Vikings coach is much better at the press conference game than PJ he doesn’t give much detail but enough so that it doesn’t sound like he’s clearly full of shit like PJ.
 

Gopherchase said:
Sure he did. He and Coyle are masters of the double speak nonsense, and people notice that. The Vikings coach is much better at the press conference game than PJ he doesn’t give much detail but enough so that it doesn’t sound like he’s clearly full of shit like PJ.
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You don’t matter

You know what the Viking coach said yesterday when he was asked about why the offense stalled in the second half? He literally said “it’s on me”


You’re a hypocrite and a liar.
It’s fine though because you don’t matter.
 


Some guy said:
You don’t matter

You know what the Viking coach said yesterday when he was asked about why the offense stalled in the second half? He literally said “it’s on me”


You’re a hypocrite and a liar.
It’s fine though because you don’t matter.
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I have opinions just like you. Yours generally suck and I know mine aren’t popular with the Fleck is our savior crowd, but I’m aware of that — but my opinions matter. You work hard to be the smartest guy in the room and a keyboard bully but at the end of the day your opinions are mostly dumb and you’re kinda pathetic; the difference between us is I get what pro PJ or anti whining folks think about my opinions and am OK with that; you are oblivious about your little lot in life.
 

Every team looks really explosive when you let their walk-on RB (Mockobee) run for over 10 YPC for two straight seasons
 


Gopherchase said:
I have opinions just like you. Yours generally suck and I know mine aren’t popular with the Fleck is our savior crowd, but I’m aware of that — but my opinions matter. You work hard to be the smartest guy in the room and a keyboard bully but at the end of the day your opinions are mostly dumb and you’re kinda pathetic; the difference between us is I get what pro PJ or anti whining folks think about my opinions and am OK with that; you are oblivious about your little lot in life.
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Your opinions don’t matter. And neither do you. Sorry to tell you.

My opinions don’t matter either.
Sorry you aren’t more self aware

The difference between me and you is you aren’t aware how much you don’t matter. I am aware of how much I don’t matter
 

Some guy said:
You don’t matter

You know what the Viking coach said yesterday when he was asked about why the offense stalled in the second half? He literally said “it’s on me”


You’re a hypocrite and a liar.
It’s fine though because you don’t matter.
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Except he calls the plays, the PJ version is nebulous given his lack of action.
 

Some guy said:
Wisconsin didnt. They were terrible until Alvarez.
Iowa didn’t, they were terrible until Fry

Michigan did. But they have one national title since integration. They have 10 national titles before integration.
I’m not sure the point you make here is as good as you think.
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And your point is that but for the right coach (e.g. Alvarez, Fry) these schools would not be good programs? Well, we've tried Stoll, Salem, Holtz, Gutekunst, Wacker, Mason, Brewster, (Horton), Kill, Claeys, and Fleck since Warmath had the Gophers at the top. Who would you think could do in Minneapolis what Alvarez and Fry did in Madison and Iowa City?
 


FanSinceTheFifties said:
And your point is that but for the right coach (e.g. Alvarez, Fry) these schools would not be good programs? Well, we've tried Stoll, Salem, Holtz, Gutekunst, Wacker, Mason, Brewster, (Horton), Kill, Claeys, and Fleck since Warmath had the Gophers at the top. Who would you think could do in Minneapolis what Alvarez and Fry did in Madison and Iowa City?
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Alvarez and Fry could have!

I don’t know. If I knew that answer I’d be making more money.
I’m willing to give fleck one more year.






I don’t know if Alvarez could have in today’s big ten. His first big ten title he got a co-title by tying one team and missing out on playing penn state.
Today he would’ve had to have beat Ohio state or penn state in a big ten championship game.
His second big ten title was in year 9. It was a 3 way title. He was 0-1 against the two teams he tied with. Missed Ohio state and lost to Michigan.

Say he lost to Ohio state in overtime in 1993 rather than tied. Then Penn state won the tiebreaker to play in the championship against Ohio state (not sure who would’ve won it).
In todays society he may have been fired in year 6 for going 4-5-2.

Even his 1998 title he won outright but was 1-1 against the top 4 in the conference.

In 1996 his 7 year big ten record was 19-26-3 with 5 wins against big ten teams that finished over .500 in conference. Co-titles were the shit for reviving programs.

Alvarez is kind of one of the reasons I think it is harder for coaches in the west today even though they play in the west.
We was 65-60-3 in conference and is kind of a legend. Didn’t win his first outright title until year 10. He had 5 seasons under .500’in conference before winning his first outright title



I don’t know if Hayden fry could have. Although he didn’t have the under .500 seasons like Alvarez so he would get a longer leash.
His first big ten title was a co title that he didn’t have to play the other team that won the title. And he had two losses. He was 3-2 against the top 7 in the conference.
His 1985 title was very legit.
Fry has a Better resume than Alvarez.
His third big ten title was a 4 way tie. He had two losses and would’ve had to have to have rematched one of them in a title game in today’s big ten .
 
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