Dual Threat or Pocket Passer

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husker70

husker70

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It would seem we were the dual threat QB last year. Its what we have been recruiting. With David Cobb in the backfield and a QB able to run the ball as well as hit an occasional pass we were definitely working the zone plays much better. Cobb, Epping, Williams are gone, but the appearance is we are going to run from the gun and the QB is not a threat to run. He is a pocket passer. He is Payton Manning in the hurry up. And its not working. The QB is not accurate, does not have a big arm, and seldom shows touch. You can buy the problem being the offensive line to a fault, but make no mistake unless they go back to the QB being a threat to run, you can expect more of the same.
 

husker70 said:
It would seem we were the dual threat QB last year. Its what we have been recruiting. With David Cobb in the backfield and a QB able to run the ball as well as hit an occasional pass we were definitely working the zone plays much better. Cobb, Epping, Williams are gone, but the appearance is we are going to run from the gun and the QB is not a threat to run. He is a pocket passer. He is Payton Manning in the hurry up. And its not working. The QB is not accurate, does not have a big arm, and seldom shows touch. You can buy the problem being the offensive line to a fault, but make no mistake unless they go back to the QB being a threat to run, you can expect more of the same.
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I've been a Leidner apologist from the get-go, but I have always felt he isn't any good to us if he can't run. Hard to run though when the line can't open holes. We have a problem for sure.
 

I'm not sure the QB running really fixes the problem of everyone in the box. Mitch isn't any better rolling out and if he just runs outright everyone in the box can follow him as they're still all right on the line....

Screens, passing.... gotta hit them where they ain't. The QB needs to help out the rest of the team, even if he isn't getting the best help as it is.
 

husker70 said:
It would seem we were the dual threat QB last year. Its what we have been recruiting. With David Cobb in the backfield and a QB able to run the ball as well as hit an occasional pass we were definitely working the zone plays much better. Cobb, Epping, Williams are gone, but the appearance is we are going to run from the gun and the QB is not a threat to run. He is a pocket passer. He is Payton Manning in the hurry up. And its not working. The QB is not accurate, does not have a big arm, and seldom shows touch. You can buy the problem being the offensive line to a fault, but make no mistake unless they go back to the QB being a threat to run, you can expect more of the same.
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He has averaged close to 40 yards per game rushing in his career, including many games where he was not the starter and didn't play full time. How does that make him not a threat to run? How does that make him Peyton Manning? Leidner has about 50% more yards rushing in 25 college games than Manning does in 258 professional games.

It would be nice if people would stop making things up.
 

When you look at eight in the box, they are accounting for 8 lanes. The may slant, but cover 8. If the call is 41 with the zone blocking pressing an opening in the 1 hole and the defense slants or covers it is no gain. But if the QB makes a great fake and takes it backside the 9 hole is undefended. If work time and again against Nebraska last year. We are currently handing the ball to Smith and hope he can press the hole and bounce it back inside. And faulting the offensive line. And if they are injured, maybe they should not be in the game. An injured player who normally grades at 80 will drop to 70 or lower. And the question is there a player who is untested who might perform at 75.
 


They'll go back to it when they have to, when they feel it is necessary to win a big game.
 

dpodoll68 said:
He has averaged close to 40 yards per game rushing in his career, including many games where he was not the starter and didn't play full time. How does that make him not a threat to run? How does that make him Peyton Manning? Leidner has about 50% more yards rushing in 25 college games than Manning does in 258 professional games.

It would be nice if people would stop making things up.
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This year he has taken on becoming a pocket passer. I pulled Payton as an example of non running pocket passer QB. And if you are a non runner you need to be a 60% passer which we are not seeing. Our QB is not Tyler Magnum, or Brad Kayaa, at his best he is at least a threat to run the ball, if not an active participant in the running game.
 

husker70 said:
When you look at eight in the box, they are accounting for 8 lanes. The may slant, but cover 8. If the call is 41 with the zone blocking pressing an opening in the 1 hole and the defense slants or covers it is no gain. But if the QB makes a great fake and takes it backside the 9 hole is undefended. If work time and again against Nebraska last year. We are currently handing the ball to Smith and hope he can press the hole and bounce it back inside. And faulting the offensive line. And if they are injured, maybe they should not be in the game. An injured player who normally grades at 80 will drop to 70 or lower. And the question is there a player who is untested who might perform at 75.
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The back side safety is 7 yards off the ball. The argument is not he needs to run to the nine hole that is correct. The argument that he needs to hit that 1:1 deep route without throwing a pick is correct. You were good with the line is at fault and that it isn't a good depth issue if our backup grades out lower then a hurt started that is getting beat.
 

husker70 said:
This year he has taken on becoming a pocket passer. I pulled Payton as an example of non running pocket passer QB. And if you are a non runner you need to be a 60% passer which we are not seeing. Our QB is not Tyler Magnum, or Brad Kayaa, at his best he is at least a threat to run the ball, if not an active participant in the running game.
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He has rushed for 85 yards this year in 3 games, just over 28 yards a game. Over the course of a season (assuming bowl), that's close to 400 rushing yards. I ask again, how does that not make him a threat to run? Please stop making things up to suit your agenda.
 



dpodoll68 said:
He has rushed for 85 yards this year in 3 games, just over 28 yards a game. Over the course of a season (assuming bowl), that's close to 400 rushing yards. I ask again, how does that not make him a threat to run? Please stop making things up to suit your agenda.
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What's his agenda? Seems like he is just explaining his view on what has been going on. The word "threat" is fluid, so I'm not sure how this is an agenda thing?
 

Were missing some critical people that were effective at blocking this.

husker70 said:
When you look at eight in the box, they are accounting for 8 lanes. The may slant, but cover 8. If the call is 41 with the zone blocking pressing an opening in the 1 hole and the defense slants or covers it is no gain. But if the QB makes a great fake and takes it backside the 9 hole is undefended. If work time and again against Nebraska last year. We are currently handing the ball to Smith and hope he can press the hole and bounce it back inside. And faulting the offensive line. And if they are injured, maybe they should not be in the game. An injured player who normally grades at 80 will drop to 70 or lower. And the question is there a player who is untested who might perform at 75.
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Missing some key people, right now in Lingen and Plsek not playing, that could help seal that play and Thomas has missed some stuff up front. Last year we had Drew Goodger, Lincoln Plsek, Max Williams, and Bak and Epping, and Tommy Olson on the line. The main difference though is David Cobb as a tailback that made a lot of those plays against Nebraska by getting through some pretty small creases and almost non-existent holes. Cobb made a lot of plays against Nebraska out of nothing much. The line did just enough but Cobb made a lot of plays on his own.
Like you said though Husker if they are running spread and shot gun with Mitch not making any fakes, defense doesn't have to account for the 9 hole or anything backside. There is no doubt that Mitch Leidner has to be more accurate as a passer because right now they are not using him that much as a running threat, probably to limit the chance of injury. This may be why they could consider going to the other guy in Croft, he just may have more accuracy and the ability to make the backside fake work better than Mitch.

They are depending on Smith to press the hole and make a cutback work when he doesn't have the same kind of strength that Cobb had. He has been a little impatient waiting for things to develop, something Cobb had to develop over time, because he was the same way as a Sophomore.
 

tikited said:
What's his agenda? Seems like he is just explaining his view on what has been going on. The word "threat" is fluid, so I'm not sure how this is an agenda thing?
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His agenda is adding new and inventive layers to the "Leidner sucks" narrative.
 




They seem IMO to run him less since he's had some fumble issues. He also seems to run more as the weather get colder. No facts to back it up, just an observation.
 

In the first three games in 2014, Mitch ran 7 times for 15 yards against Eastern Illinois. 10 of those yards on 1 carry. Then against Middle Tennessee, he ran 5 times for 32 yards. Next he ran for 9 times for 4 yards against TCU.

Looking at those numbers, and bearing in mind that sacks come off Rushing totals in college, seems that there isn't much difference between Liedner's rushing this year as last, at least so far.
 

Looking at his numbers through 3 NC games he has run the ball 9 more times than last year and has 34 more yards. Looking over the last two years, he has run more as the competition has gone up. Last year he ran over 10 times in 6 of 8 conference games.
 

My guess is they are trying to save him from getting hit too often early in the season. Same thing happened last year. As we get into the conference schedule we'll probably see him running more often.

I get this way of thinking, but still think we need to run a little bit of read option early on when the offense is playing very well.
 


GophersInIowa said:
My guess is they are trying to save him from getting hit too often early in the season. Same thing happened last year. As we get into the conference schedule we'll probably see him running more often.

I get this way of thinking, but still think we need to run a little bit of read option early on when the offense is playing very well.
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I'm guessing that is a factor too. Also the read option was not very effective vs CSU so maybe they went a different direction vs Kent State.
 


dpodoll68 said:
His agenda is adding new and inventive layers to the "Leidner sucks" narrative.
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I see it more as a play calling discussion versus a Leidner discussion. Definitely a different emphasis so far in what I've seen this year.
 

GophersInIowa said:
My guess is they are trying to save him from getting hit too often early in the season. Same thing happened last year. As we get into the conference schedule we'll probably see him running more often.

I get this way of thinking, but still think we need to run a little bit of read option early on when the offense is playing very well.
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Agreed, it's not like Big Ten opponents aren't going to prepare for it...would seem to be to our benefit to practice it with different personel than last year?
 

60's Guy said:
I see it more as a play calling discussion versus a Leidner discussion. Definitely a different emphasis so far in what I've seen this year.
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Exactly. Its what the Coaching Staff is asking of the position, and the play calls.
 

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