Do you want Ben back for a fourth year?

[MplsGopher]

The current team, if everyone returns, would not be that much better next year. Christie and Payne can be a lot better, Hawkins and Mitchell a little better. Garcia and Fox are not going to be a lot better if any.

To be markedly better next year we need three solid portal players good enough to compete for starts and playing time with guys who are here. A power forward, a center, and a wing. Johnson's only job right now is the portal.

OK, thanks.

I'd rather he focus on the portal than getting the team ready for a NIT bid, in my opinion.

 

[Gophers7633]

It's not just a question of how much they are willing to pay. What established, successful, high profile coach, who is already making plenty of money at a high end job, wants to risk his career on rebuilding Minnesota?

Really good, proven coaches already have good jobs.

There are a bunch of proven HC's at the Mid-Major level that are much better and more accomplished than Ben. As an example, Danny Sprinkle makes $900K, we could double that and then some.

 

[MplsGopher]

There are a bunch of proven HC's at the Mid-Major level that are much better and more accomplished than Ben. As an example, Danny Sprinkle makes $900K, we could double that and then some.

Sorry, no ties to Minnesota.

 

[Dakota2]

If we are discussing again in 2025 then the decision to fire would be correct now.

Not at all. If Fleck follows six wins with four or five do you think there will not be controversy in the fan base about making a change?

 

[Dakota2]

There are a bunch of proven HC's at the Mid-Major level that are much better and more accomplished than Ben. As an example, Danny Sprinkle makes $900K, we could double that and then some.

That's actually a good name considering he built the team primarily with transfers. Thanks for actually offering something other than "high end" as a suggestion.

 

[Dakota2]

OK, thanks.

I'd rather he focus on the portal than getting the team ready for a NIT bid, in my opinion.

If we get a bid, keep playing and trying to win. Coaches have plenty of time to look at portal entrants who will be coming out in next couple of weeks.

 

[Gophers7633]

That's actually a good name considering he built the team primarily with transfers. Thanks for actually offering something other than "high end" as a suggestion.

There's a lot more. Darian DeVries($640K), obviously Medved, Mark Bynington($450K), Dustin Kerns($300K). There are just a ton of proven coaches at that level that have maintained success.

 

[Spaulding!No!]

There's a lot more. Darian DeVries($640K), obviously Medved, Mark Bynington($450K), Dustin Kerns($300K). There are just a ton of proven coaches at that level that have maintained success.

I can read between the lines.

 

[60's Guy]

Sorry, no ties to Minnesota.

Buy him a house here...he'll be one of us.

 

[Some guy]

Right now it makes him middle of the pack in the Big Ten. Not great but a lot better than bad.

Middle of the pack?
I guess yeah if you only include a 1 year evaluation he is middle of the pack. He averages a 12th place finish out of 14 teams in his tenure here and has never been in the top half.

So yeah…if 3-12 is middle of the pack, yeah

 

[Some guy]

Not at all. If Fleck follows six wins with four or five do you think there will not be controversy in the fan base about making a change?

Well, if that happened and you looked at flecks 3 year stretch it would be 9-4, 6-7, 4-8…yes there would be controversy but I don’t think very good comparison.

A better comparison would be if he went 1-8 the next two years and his last 3 seasons were 3-6, 1-8, 1-8

But that’s still a bad comparison.
Because fleck has gone 29-32 in conference and has never been last place (so far).
Ben Johnson has gone 15-44. I personally think Minnesota would be an easier place to win at in hoops than football (you may disagree). But it’s still a bad comparison because the sports are so different.

 

[Johnnyboy18]

Well, if that happened and you looked at flecks 3 year stretch it would be 9-4, 6-7, 4-8…yes there would be controversy but I don’t think very good comparison.

A better comparison would be if he went 1-8 the next two years and his last 3 seasons were 3-6, 1-8, 1-8

But that’s still a bad comparison.
Because fleck has gone 29-32 in conference and has never been last place (so far).
Ben Johnson has gone 15-44. I personally think Minnesota would be an easier place to win at in hoops than football (you may disagree). But it’s still a bad comparison because the sports are so different.

Today I learned 9-11 in basketball is the same as 3-6 in football. GH never ceases to amaze me.

 

[kg21]

Hell No, I don't want him back.

We are currently ranked last in the Big 10 in recruiting this year.

If Garcia leaves, we will win about 5 games in the Big 10 next year.

I mean, seriously!

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

My baseline was a postseason this season and I don’t see that happening, based on the available metrics - this qualifies as a good use of analytics.

I was wrong- Yippee and have changed my vote to keep Ben.

You’re allowed to change your votes as well!

I’ve been a big backer of Ben, as he is our coach, but I think we need a change.
I will always be a “homer” and I’ll take that over starting hyperbolic threads about someone’s ability. He got close this season, but we collapsed at the end of the season and our lack of depth showed.

Regardless, I feel a change is warranted, and vote no to a fourth year for Ben.

I think Coyle will give him one more year and that’s it unless we make the NCAA next season. If he comes back, I will be vociferously cheering for us to make March Madness and that I’m wrong; no biggie, I’m wrong and/or have made mistakes often in my life.


And your vote?

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

Just wait until that NIT bid comes in!

I changed mine, never felt better in being wrong.

 

[MplsGopher]

If we get a bid, keep playing and trying to win. Coaches have plenty of time to look at portal entrants who will be coming out in next couple of weeks.

My bad, I misunderstood when I googled NIT and saw April dates not realizing that that was just the championship, not the earlier rounds.

Now that I know we’re playing tomorrow, no issue.
Good luck to the team!

 

[MaxyJR1]

Anyone who thinks Ben should be let

Hell No, I don't want him back.

We are currently ranked last in the Big 10 in recruiting this year.

If Garcia leaves, we will win about 5 games in the Big 10 next year.

I mean, seriously!

I struggle with the people that want him gone right when the corner is starting to be turned. Look to Nebraska and Northwestern as the goal here. Hoiberg is in year 5 and MN actually has a better B1G record over the five years. Collins is in year 11 and it took until year 10&11 to get back to back tournament bids. Those programs are now investing in Basketball.

Take a listen to Pitino on the radio with Barreiro yesterday. He talks about how hard it is to win at MN and what he has learned from being at NM now.

Monson, Tubby, and Pitino have all won since leaving MN at other programs. You have to give someone a good run of support to turn the corner and win. Ben just had a 9 win season, which is the 7th in the program since 1996/97. Monson had 2. Tubby had 2. Pitino had 2. Ben got his 1st this year.

Musselman- 9th or worse in SEC in 3 of 5 years.
Utah guy- Losing conference record in 3 years and top finish is 6th
Medved- Only clear miss in my opinion, but again MN is the issues, not the coach.

Recruiting: We only have 2 kids coming in. Hard to be highly ranked when you have 2 local kids coming in. How did Michigan and Indiana do with their classes?

Garcia might leave, it's an opportunity to bring someone else in. The portal is wide open and we might not be at the top of the pecking order, but we have a solid foundation to recruit to with a veteran club coming back.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Sure, there are a lot of people who were not a fan of the hire and have been ripping him from the start. That said, it's not like his first three years have yielded "silence the naysayers" type results.

I probably characterize the two groups a little differently than you do. Group 1 thinks that the awful results from the first three years are sufficient evidence that he is not a very good coach (and, in many of their eyes, confirm what they already suspected based on his resume when he was hired).

Group 2 thinks that the three years are an insufficient sample to draw that conclusion. They point to the upward trajectory and relative success of year 3 as evidence. I personally think this group is overstating the success of year 3 because either it helps them believe what they want or their bar was so lowered by how bad his first two years were that even a year where we missed the NCAAs and weren't really close to the bubble looks good by comparison. Im sure group 2 would counter that I am too unwilling to see the positives in year 3 because I am so dug in after the first two years.

Neither group is objectively wrong, which is part of what is fun about sports. I also have to assume that the vast majority of both groups would be thrilled if next season we contend for the Big Ten title and make a run to the Sweet 16 regardless of whether it is Johnson or a new coach who gets us there.

Don't really disagree with anything you wrote here. In the end it really comes down to how a person chooses to look at things.

Some choose to dwell on the negative others choose to look for the positive. I don't think you will find anyone in the fanbase thrilled with how the last 3 years have gone. But there were enough positives in year 3 for many of us to be ok with giving it another year before throwing in the towel.

In the end as fans we don't have any real control on what the administration decides to do. It appears they plan to give Johnson another year so I would rather look at how things could work out as opposed to just assuing all is lost.

 

[Gopher_In_NYC]

Anyone who thinks Ben should be let

I struggle with the people that want him gone right when the corner is starting to be turned. Look to Nebraska and Northwestern as the goal here. Hoiberg is in year 5 and MN actually has a better B1G record over the five years. Collins is in year 11 and it took until year 10&11 to get back to back tournament bids. Those programs are now investing in Basketball.

Take a listen to Pitino on the radio with Barreiro yesterday. He talks about how hard it is to win at MN and what he has learned from being at NM now.

Monson, Tubby, and Pitino have all won since leaving MN at other programs. You have to give someone a good run of support to turn the corner and win. Ben just had a 9 win season, which is the 7th in the program since 1996/97. Monson had 2. Tubby had 2. Pitino had 2. Ben got his 1st this year.

Musselman- 9th or worse in SEC in 3 of 5 years.
Utah guy- Losing conference record in 3 years and top finish is 6th
Medved- Only clear miss in my opinion, but again MN is the issues, not the coach.

Recruiting: We only have 2 kids coming in. Hard to be highly ranked when you have 2 local kids coming in. How did Michigan and Indiana do with their classes?

Garcia might leave, it's an opportunity to bring someone else in. The portal is wide open and we might not be at the top of the pecking order, but we have a solid foundation to recruit to with a veteran club coming back.

Wow -excellent post with plethora of supporting facts - thanks

 

[Bad Gopher]

Keep in mind that "dwelling on the negative" amounts to simply reciting his win/loss record, which is among the worst three-year stretches in program history, if not THE worst. It's not hard to connect the dots between that and his shocking lack of experience and ability when he was hired. Contrary so some narratives out there, this is not rocket science.

I'm resigned that he'll get run out there again for a fourth year of the dwindling number of years left in my life. Perhaps it's for the better: my aging heart might not be able to take the excitement and stress of contention and big games.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

Anyone who thinks Ben should be let

I struggle with the people that want him gone right when the corner is starting to be turned. Look to Nebraska and Northwestern as the goal here. Hoiberg is in year 5 and MN actually has a better B1G record over the five years. Collins is in year 11 and it took until year 10&11 to get back to back tournament bids. Those programs are now investing in Basketball.

Take a listen to Pitino on the radio with Barreiro yesterday. He talks about how hard it is to win at MN and what he has learned from being at NM now.

Monson, Tubby, and Pitino have all won since leaving MN at other programs. You have to give someone a good run of support to turn the corner and win. Ben just had a 9 win season, which is the 7th in the program since 1996/97. Monson had 2. Tubby had 2. Pitino had 2. Ben got his 1st this year.

Musselman- 9th or worse in SEC in 3 of 5 years.
Utah guy- Losing conference record in 3 years and top finish is 6th
Medved- Only clear miss in my opinion, but again MN is the issues, not the coach.

Recruiting: We only have 2 kids coming in. Hard to be highly ranked when you have 2 local kids coming in. How did Michigan and Indiana do with their classes?

Garcia might leave, it's an opportunity to bring someone else in. The portal is wide open and we might not be at the top of the pecking order, but we have a solid foundation to recruit to with a veteran club coming back.

What corner is being turned? Limping into the NIT in year 3 because a bunch of P6 teams opted out is turning the corner now? That's exactly the problem. Ben has lowered expectations so much that this once was considered a bad season but is now acceptable.

Pitino was better at MN then Ben has been. Pitino hasn't been much different at New Mexico than he was here. All of the excuses are bullshit.

Your comparison to Nebraska and Northwestern is exactly the problem. They are historically the worst programs in the conference, along with Rutgers and Penn St. So now we need to compare ourselves to them, instead of Iowa and Wisconsin who are a tier higher?

So you and others continue to defend that the Gophers have become the worst basketball program in the conference, and that you're ok with that. Some of us are not. There is no legitimate reason the Gophers should be this consistently bad at basketball.

 

[MaxyJR1]

Keep in mind that "dwelling on the negative" amounts to simply reciting his win/loss record, which is among the worst three-game stretches in program history, if not THE worst. It's not hard to connect the dots between that and his shocking lack of experience and ability when he was hired. Contrary so some narratives out there, this is not rocket science.

I'm resigned that he'll get run out there again for a fourth year of the dwindling number of years left in my life. Perhaps it's for the better: my aging heart might not be able to take the excitement and stress of contention and big games.

Yet Hoiberg was a coach at ISU (Very Successful), coached in the NBA, and his first 3 years at Nebraska (9wins) were worse than Ben's at MN(15wins).

Ben deserves to continue to coach and the UofM deserves a new arena to play in. As Pitino pointed out Vikings got a new stadium, Target field is new, Target Center got updated, Gopher football is new. It's the only program in town without updated amenities to draw against the competition.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

Yet Hoiberg was a coach at ISU (Very Successful), coached in the NBA, and his first 3 years at Nebraska (9wins) were worse than Ben's at MN(15wins).

Ben deserves to continue to coach and the UofM deserves a new arena to play in. As Pitino pointed out Vikings got a new stadium, Target field is new, Target Center got updated, Gopher football is new. It's the only program in town without updated amenities to draw against the competition.

How many championships do those teams have since moving into the new facilities? Williams arena needs to be updated, but it's just an excuse. The Gophers also have a relatively new practice facility that Pitino moved into.

It's sad how many of you eat up the excuses that Minnesota is an impossible place to win. It's not. It's only seems impossible because we keep hiring incompetent coaches.

 

[MaxyJR1]

What corner is being turned? Limping into the NIT in year 3 because a bunch of P6 teams opted out is turning the corner now? That's exactly the problem. Ben has lowered expectations so much that this once was considered a bad season but is now acceptable.

Pitino was better at MN then Ben has been. Pitino hasn't been much different at New Mexico than he was here. All of the excuses are bullshit.

Your comparison to Nebraska and Northwestern is exactly the problem. They are historically the worst programs in the conference, along with Rutgers and Penn St. So now we need to compare ourselves to them, instead of Iowa and Wisconsin who are a tier higher?

So you and others continue to defend that the Gophers have become the worst basketball program in the conference, and that you're ok with that. Some of us are not. There is no legitimate reason the Gophers should be this consistently bad at basketball.

I'm saying it's not the coaches, it's the support and other factors that are the issues with the program. Year 3 way too early to cut bait.

You look at Nebraska and Northwestern with new arenas and how they are set up to continue to grow as a program.

You're ignoring the past and misremembering it as some sort of good program. It never has been outside of a 5 year stretch under Clem Haskins.

You can't get to WI/IA level until you achieve NE/NW level. And none of it is attainable by firing the coach every 3-5 years.

 

[MaxyJR1]

How many championships do those teams have since moving into the new facilities? Williams arena needs to be updated, but it's just an excuse. The Gophers also have a relatively new practice facility that Pitino moved into.

It's sad how many of you eat up the excuses that Minnesota is an impossible place to win. It's not. It's only seems impossible because we keep hiring incompetent coaches.

Pitino mentioned he was young and got a practice facility and he didn't think he had a leg to stand on whining for more as a 30 year old coach, being thankful for the opportunity.

The arena is not an excuse, it shows the investment in the programs it supports or lack there of.

People who want the coach out and continue to toot that horn don't encourage anyone to support the program.

 

[Bad Gopher]

Yet Hoiberg was a coach at ISU (Very Successful), coached in the NBA, and his first 3 years at Nebraska (9wins) were worse than Ben's at MN(15wins).

Ben deserves to continue to coach and the UofM deserves a new arena to play in. As Pitino pointed out Vikings got a new stadium, Target field is new, Target Center got updated, Gopher football is new. It's the only program in town without updated amenities to draw against the competition.

Citing Target Field as a new facility that helped its team win might not be the argument you think it is.

Nebraska is not Minnesota, and Hoiberg is not Johnson. Those are two very different people in two very different situations, one distinction being the levels of experience and known ability they possessed at the time they were hired.

You can't paper over that Johnson has been a downgrade from his predecessor. The U doesn't have to accept that and live with it if it doesn't want to.

 

[MaxyJR1]

Citing Target Field as a new facility that helped its team win might not be the argument you think it is.

Nebraska is not Minnesota, and Hoiberg is not Johnson. Those are two very different people in two very different situations, one distinction being the levels of experience and known ability they possessed at the time they were hired.

You can't paper over that Johnson has been a downgrade from his predecessor. The U doesn't have to accept that and live with it if it doesn't want to.

Target field draws people with amenities and that creates revenue for the Polads. We can't control how they spend their money.

Again why was Hoiberg 9 wins through 3 years not fired, but you want Ben 15 wins through 3 years fired? Seems odd that you want the guy doing better at a worse situation fired.

I'm not papering over anything other than Tubby and Pitino probably were done a favor by being fired and we should not have.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

I'm saying it's not the coaches, it's the support and other factors that are the issues with the program. Year 3 way too early to cut bait.

You look at Nebraska and Northwestern with new arenas and how they are set up to continue to grow as a program.

You're ignoring the past and misremembering it as some sort of good program. It never has been outside of a 5 year stretch under Clem Haskins.

You can't get to WI/IA level until you achieve NE/NW level. And none of it is attainable by firing the coach every 3-5 years.

3 years is more than enough in basketball. You only need to find 6-7 players to make the NCAA tournament. We haven't been close to that yet, and it's never been easier to find those players in your first 3 years than it is today with the free transfer portal.

It's laughable that you think it's only been a small stretch that we've been better than NW and Nebraska. This is only the 8th time Nebraska will go to the NCAA tournament, and they have never won a game. This will only be the 3rd time Northwestern has gone to the tournament, ever. Penn St has only made it twice over the last 20 years.

Now you're saying we need to strive to be like Nebraska and Northwestern. Penn St's coach just replaced almost the entire roster and had a similar season in year 1 as what Ben had this year.

Thanks for making my point for me, again. Ben is the worst coach in the B1G, and has reduced our program to the worst in the B1G. It seems that several of you can't come to grips with that reality.

 

[leib0039]

"Pitino said its hard to win here" I mean that's right up there "Izzo says the Gophers will be #1 in the Big ten soon if they keep Johnson around!"

What the hell do you think they'll say? Hey its easy to win there i just suck as a coach! Or Izzo, you think he's going to say ohh yah you morons have the worst coach in the league we love that he stays!

Come on people, it's coach speak. It might have some level of fact yes. But its just how they talk. Ask UNC or UCONN, im sure they are terrified of their 16 seed matchup, great team great coach I'm sure of it! Now give them truth serum, bet they say they suck and know they will stomp them.

 

[MaxyJR1]

3 years is more than enough in basketball. You only need to find 6-7 players to make the NCAA tournament. We haven't been close to that yet, and it's never been easier to find those players in your first 3 years than it is today with the free transfer portal.

It's laughable that you think it's only been a small stretch that we've been better than NW and Nebraska. This is only the 8th time Nebraska will go to the NCAA tournament, and they have never won a game. This will only be the 3rd time Northwestern has gone to the tournament, ever. Penn St has only made it twice over the last 20 years.

Now you're saying we need to strive to be like Nebraska and Northwestern. Penn St's coach just replaced almost the entire roster and had a similar season in year 1 as what Ben had this year.

Thanks for making my point for me, again. Ben is the worst coach in the B1G, and has reduced our program to the worst in the B1G. It seems that several of you can't come to grips with that reality.

Then we will never be WI/IA as you can't put a team together in one year and expect them to win at a high level without growth and development. I was told that we want to be like the two teams that go into the Portal the least.

MN has been to the NCAA tournament 12 times in 40+ years and 6 times over last 20 years. Same ballpark. Baby steps.

Let's let the Penn State program grow and check back in 2 years and see where they are at.