Daniels and Curry on the floor together?

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Lakers612

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A Michigan State beat writer said on Twitter this morning that we essentially run a 6-man rotation. Pretty sure he was discounting Daniels, as he's only averaging around 10-minutes as of late.

Curry has been great and ideally we would have the depth to spare him some minutes. We definitely don't want to be playing him more than 30 minutes a game. That should be his hard limit.

But I am also worried about the other starters as well and cannot but help think that it is a matter of when, not if, for our starters to wear down. Battle is playing every minute and I fear his game will drop off similar to what we saw with Carr after Pitino wore him to the ground.

If the idea is that Loewe, Willis, Stephens, Battle, Curry and Sutherlin are our best 6, I think Daniels has shown he deserves to be in the rotation at least, which can't be said for anyone else on the roster--in part because not too many other guys have had a chance to play.

I bring all this up because I wonder if Daniels and Curry could share the floor together. Curry was essentially a PF coming out of high school, and showed he was capable of playing the 4 and the 5 in the Big10 his freshman season. I know he is not as athletic as he once was, so guarding a small-ball 4 for significant minutes is out of the question.

But with us likely to get outrebounded in every game in the Big10, is there not a rotation where we have Loewe, Willis, Stephens, Curry and Daniels to give Battle a break? If we are getting outrebounded to death and we need to mix something up, couldn't we go Lowe, Willis, Battle, Curry and Daniels?

I'm not calling for Curry and Daniels to play 10 minutes together every game. But even if you could get away with 2 minutes each half, that at least relieves some pressure from Battle.

Daniels seems to have the athleticism and the smarts to play minutes in Big10 play. Wish we would give him like 5 extra minutes a game to help relieve the other guys.
 

I’m curious what the 1-3-1 zone would look like with Curry and Daniels in the middle and down low. I’m concerned the offense would take a step back with both on the floor though, and we really can’t afford that.
 

matt said:
I’m curious what the 1-3-1 zone would look like with Curry and Daniels in the middle and down low. I’m concerned the offense would take a step back with both on the floor though, and we really can’t afford that.
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Yeah, I don't see how that would work well on offense. I would only do it if we have a double digit lead in the last 5 minutes and they're killing us inside or something.
 

I actually really like this and have considered it as well. Here's the thing, we really don't need any offense from our center anyways. Have hardly gotten any all season mostly because Curry is not well suited to play the 5. What we really need at center is defense and rebounding and from what I can tell Daniels is much better than Curry in those aspects. Bump Curry down to the 4, his natural position, and I could see him benefitting tremendously from this. Also, instead of sitting Battle, I would sit EJ or Loewe and move battle to the 3. I think this would actually be our ideal lineup if we had another center to rotate in. Maybe at some point this season Thompson gets more minutes.
 
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GopherManiac8 said:
Here's the thing, we really don't need any offense from our center anyways. Have hardly gotten any all season mostly because Curry is not well suited to play the 5. What we really need at center is defense and rebounding and from what I can tell Daniels is much better than Curry in those aspects. Bump Curry down to the 4, his natural position, and I could see him benefitting tremendously from this. Also, instead of sitting Battle, I would sit EJ or Loewe and move battle to the 3. I think this would actually be our ideal lineup if we had another center to rotate in. Maybe at some point this season Thompson gets more minutes.
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Yes, I think this would be a huge benefit too, although without a true point guard on the roster it is harder to orchestrate an offense with essentially thee PFs (I think Daniels could play the 4 too on some rosters). But to give Loewe some minutes by having Willis, Stephens, Battle, Curry, Daniels would be significant.

As far as the rest of your post, I think Curry has been solid at the 5 for us some games on the offensive end, WKU and MISS St, teams that don't exactly lack size, are two examples.

Curry has also had moments where it looks like he forgot how to play basketball, so I'm not suggesting he's been perfect. But do think we would benefit for a whole lot of reasons if we worked on developing a "big lineup" in case we have to go to it later in the season.
 


Although Johnson has done pretty well so far, the biggest problem I see with his coaching is that he is doing the same thing as Pitino. NOT developing the bench. Treyton Thompson needs to get on the floor to gain experience. If he makes mistakes he does. Same with Thiam. This year is supposed to be driving us to the future and that is not happening by playing a bunch of 1 year players at the end of their careers. There has been success and that is helpful, but without that bench development (which recruits can see), this year will be a total flop regardless of how many wins they achieve. This team is not making it to the dance...period
 

I agree with your overall point of players the starters too many minutes, but I don't like the idea Curry and Daniels sharing the floor. Our offense has been successful (to the extent it has been) due to quality spacing and off ball movement.

I share your concern about rebounding- yet another reason Sutherlin should be playing more minutes, health pending.
 

swanyj said:
Although Johnson has done pretty well so far, the biggest problem I see with his coaching is that he is doing the same thing as Pitino. NOT developing the bench. Treyton Thompson needs to get on the floor to gain experience. If he makes mistakes he does. Same with Thiam. This year is supposed to be driving us to the future and that is not happening by playing a bunch of 1 year players at the end of their careers. There has been success and that is helpful, but without that bench development (which recruits can see), this year will be a total flop regardless of how many wins they achieve. This team is not making it to the dance...period
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I agree I would like to see Thompson get more minutes but I think one thing may be going on here. I heard somewhere the NCAA was looking at doing something like football (in football if a player plays 3 games (I think that is the number) or less they can redshirt regardless of injury). If they do this in basketball I think the number would be in the neighborhood of 6-9 games. If this happens this winter then Thompson would have redshirted and stll get some playing time. I would expect to see him get playing time whenever there is a blowout, good or bad for us. Most likely bad for us given we are in the B1G season. If Ben sticks to this I will assume he is shooting for only playing him 6-9 games regardless. I thought this rule was being looked at this year too.
 

swanyj said:
Although Johnson has done pretty well so far, the biggest problem I see with his coaching is that he is doing the same thing as Pitino. NOT developing the bench. Treyton Thompson needs to get on the floor to gain experience. If he makes mistakes he does. Same with Thiam. This year is supposed to be driving us to the future and that is not happening by playing a bunch of 1 year players at the end of their careers. There has been success and that is helpful, but without that bench development (which recruits can see), this year will be a total flop regardless of how many wins they achieve. This team is not making it to the dance...period
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The team only has two scholarship players that are not seniors on the bench in Thompson and Thiam so I am going to give Johnson a pass this year. He recruited nearly all 1 year players to fill out the roster. Just not a lot of development to be had.
 



I know when we are watching the rebounding that it seems enticing to let Daniels and Curry play together, but IMO, Ben is playing it perfectly.

If he played those two together, all of that spacing we like so much on offense is gone. We would also likely foul more (big men commit more fouls on average) - - notice how late, if ever, our opponents get into the bonus and give up those gimme points.

The fact that Ben is sticking to his guns and not playing those two together, IMO, is an extremely positive sign that he flat out gets it.

As far as Ben not developing a bench, the guy lost like 10 players, had to find replacements in a couple of months and then lost two key contributors (especially on the front court) to injury. If we don't have a bench in a year or two, I think it's something to be concerned of.
 

swanyj said:
Although Johnson has done pretty well so far, the biggest problem I see with his coaching is that he is doing the same thing as Pitino. NOT developing the bench. Treyton Thompson needs to get on the floor to gain experience. If he makes mistakes he does. Same with Thiam. This year is supposed to be driving us to the future and that is not happening by playing a bunch of 1 year players at the end of their careers. There has been success and that is helpful, but without that bench development (which recruits can see), this year will be a total flop regardless of how many wins they achieve. This team is not making it to the dance...period
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Spot on.

In the first few games, they need to establish player rotation. But, they need to work all able bodies into the lineup even if it is for two minutes. The starters are going to feel run-down. Is that when you start inserting other bench players?
 

hungan1 said:
Spot on.

In the first few games, they need to establish player rotation. But, they need to work all able bodies into the lineup even if it is for two minutes. The starters are going to feel run-down. Is that when you start inserting other bench players?
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I have zero interest in watching Curry and Daniels share the floor. Curry is too limited athletically; Daniels too limited offensively. It would not work. Daniels does need and deserve more minutes, IMO.

The Gophers would benefit with more minutes for Sutherlin, good things happen when he is on the floor as long as he is surrounded by shooters.

One of the answers is a few minutes each half for Thompson. It would not only be positive for his development, but shifting Battle to the 3 would continue to allow for floor spacing and Thompson would draw an opposing big away from the paint to at least give Curry/Daniels a chance inside.
 

NorCalGopher said:
I have zero interest in watching Curry and Daniels share the floor. Curry is too limited athletically; Daniels too limited offensively. It would not work. Daniels does need and deserve more minutes, IMO.

The Gophers would benefit with more minutes for Sutherlin, good things happen when he is on the floor as long as he is surrounded by shooters.

One of the answers is a few minutes each half for Thompson. It would not only be positive for his development, but shifting Battle to the 3 would continue to allow for floor spacing and Thompson would draw an opposing big away from the paint to at least give Curry/Daniels a chance inside.
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Even one extra body that they can insert into the lineup can make a huge difference. They have played eight games so far. I am already exhausted watching them.
 



Nah, with those two out there together. Ben does that and I think he'd be caving in from the style he wants to play.
 

hungan1 said:
Even one extra body that they can insert into the lineup can make a huge difference. They have played eight games so far. I am already exhausted watching them.
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Agree all around. I think Ihnen was such a huge loss on this front. While neither are exactly strong rebounders, I can see Ihnen fitting alongside Battle and just because of his length end up with 5 boards per game.
 

It would be great to run twin-tower looks, but we got big time bench depth issues. Izzo ran 5 off the bench to our 2. We need to be effective with how we spread minutes. The injuries have really limited us this year.
 

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