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bga1 said:
This is a practice player pickup. He was 6th in minutes played for Mercyhurst. If Pitino had made this pickup the board would be going nuclear. Sounds like he is a great kid though which I like.
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All the players on this team are great kids. Gritty and hard working too. Defensive minded. Overachievers.
 



John Galt said:
All the players on this team are great kids. Gritty and hard working too. Defensive minded. Overachievers.
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If what they did individually in their previous conferences was overachieve...we are in serious trouble
 



manderson1984 said:
It may not lead to success next year, but the culture will be built with these type of guys. That stays and lasts
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Not meaning to attack you here, but how is a culture built without success? Further, how is a culture built with guys who won't be around for more than 1 season? I'll take an extremely optomistic outlook and say this teams scratches and claws to a record around .500 in conference play. They fight over screens and win the 50-50 balls, they limit second chance opportunities, they make the extra pass on offense. Away from the public eye, they work hard in practice and improve as the season goes on. Then the vast majority of those guys leave and we're left with Battle, Thiam, and Thompson who actually played on that team to build off that culture? Is that enough? Especially if 1 or 2 of those guys doesn't play much of a role? Even in what is close to a best case scenario, it seems like you'll need to start over in '22 in regards to building habits and establishing an identity with very little veteran leadership returning and most starting roles up for grabs. Regradless of how the season goes there will probably be 8 new guys coming in with many (hopefully) fully expecting to start and/or play major roles which will create an entirely new dynamic. I think these guys will play hard all season long as it's their one chance at the big stage and likely will be the last serious basketball many of them play. I am just skeptical that it will mean anything for the culture of the program going forward regardless of how the season plays out.
 

ethomasp31 said:
I actually think the team is more impressive than most of our “fans”....

Welcome Danny....I’m excited you made the commitment to put yourself on the line for the University of Minnesota!!
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Surely you can’t be serious? They may not win over 3 games in the big ten.
 

SanDiegoGopherFan said:
This roster, if anything else, will play as hard as they can. Now will that be enough against the talent of the rest of the B1G, we'll see, but my hopes are not very high on that.
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How do you possibly know this roster will play hard? No one in the public has seen these guys play together or even practice. You’re just assuming because Ben is the coach they will play hard. You know the easiest way to play hard, make shots.
 




bga1 said:
This is a practice player pickup. He was 6th in minutes played for Mercyhurst. If Pitino had made this pickup the board would be going nuclear. Sounds like he is a great kid though which I like.
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Im still trying to figure out who they are going to put on the floor? There are no big ten starters on this team. Ben needs to get some commitments from 23 going to show any hope. Once we get into season and lose every game no one will be wanting to sign with us.
 

EG#9 said:
Not meaning to attack you here, but how is a culture built without success? Further, how is a culture built with guys who won't be around for more than 1 season? I'll take an extremely optomistic outlook and say this teams scratches and claws to a record around .500 in conference play. They fight over screens and win the 50-50 balls, they limit second chance opportunities, they make the extra pass on offense. Away from the public eye, they work hard in practice and improve as the season goes on. Then the vast majority of those guys leave and we're left with Battle, Thiam, and Thompson who actually played on that team to build off that culture? Is that enough? Especially if 1 or 2 of those guys doesn't play much of a role? Even in what is close to a best case scenario, it seems like you'll need to start over in '22 in regards to building habits and establishing an identity with very little veteran leadership returning and most starting roles up for grabs. Regradless of how the season goes there will probably be 8 new guys coming in with many (hopefully) fully expecting to start and/or play major roles which will create an entirely new dynamic. I think these guys will play hard all season long as it's their one chance at the big stage and likely will be the last serious basketball many of them play. I am just skeptical that it will mean anything for the culture of the program going forward regardless of how the season plays out.
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Culture builds success, not the other way around in my opinion. Currently we have an old roster who is business oriented, willing defenders, and unselfish offensively. We may be a .500 team period this year and only win 3-4 games in the B1G. That doesn’t mean that good culture and groundwork isn’t being built. Battle, Fox, Thompson, Thiam, and Ihnen will carry what’s been developed and share that with our many new incomers next year. The base gets stronger and better each year when done correctly. Recruits will come visit and watch practice and see it and want to be a part of it. Fans will respect it when they see it in games. My point is I highly doubt we are above 10th in the B1G this year and expect no post season tournaments, but I do believe a strong foundation can and will be set. Basketball doesn’t take as many positive leaders as other sports. 2-3 guys can carry a basketball team in the leadership category.
 
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alaska said:
Im still trying to figure out who they are going to put on the floor? There are no big ten starters on this team. Ben needs to get some commitments from 23 going to show any hope. Once we get into season and lose every game no one will be wanting to sign with us.
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Battle and Willis are easily B1G starters. Maybe not stars, but easily starters on many/most B1G teams. As far as Lowe, Stephens, and others, you may be right or you may be wrong. We haven’t seen them play. I’ve heard good things about Lowe.
 

EG#9 said:
Not meaning to attack you here, but how is a culture built without success? Further, how is a culture built with guys who won't be around for more than 1 season? I'll take an extremely optomistic outlook and say this teams scratches and claws to a record around .500 in conference play. They fight over screens and win the 50-50 balls, they limit second chance opportunities, they make the extra pass on offense. Away from the public eye, they work hard in practice and improve as the season goes on. Then the vast majority of those guys leave and we're left with Battle, Thiam, and Thompson who actually played on that team to build off that culture? Is that enough? Especially if 1 or 2 of those guys doesn't play much of a role? Even in what is close to a best case scenario, it seems like you'll need to start over in '22 in regards to building habits and establishing an identity with very little veteran leadership returning and most starting roles up for grabs. Regradless of how the season goes there will probably be 8 new guys coming in with many (hopefully) fully expecting to start and/or play major roles which will create an entirely new dynamic. I think these guys will play hard all season long as it's their one chance at the big stage and likely will be the last serious basketball many of them play. I am just skeptical that it will mean anything for the culture of the program going forward regardless of how the season plays out.
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How does Kentucky continue it’s culture or style of play when they turn over the team every year?

You are overthinking it. This year will go a long way to define the culture and style of play. It will begin to establish the discipline, priorities and expectations. It will help attract the type of players that want to play that way. It will also help the coaches refine their plans.
 



Willis? The same one that was underwhelming at best when he was with us last time around?
 

Can we move this program bashing discussion to the Debbie Downer thread.

please stop derailing every thread
 

alaska said:
Willis? The same one that was underwhelming at best when he was with us last time around?
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When healthy, he graded out above average defensively, shot the ball well and was a good passer. Not a star but a very competent starter.
 




manderson1984 said:
Culture builds success, not the other way around in my opinion. Currently we have an old roster who is business oriented, willing defenders, and unselfish offensively. We may be a .500 team period this year and only win 3-4 games in the B1G. That doesn’t mean that good culture and groundwork isn’t being built. Battle, Fox, Thompson, Thiam, and Ihnen will carry what’s been developed and share that with our many new incomers next year. The base gets stronger and better each year when done correctly. Recruits will come visit and watch practice and see it and want to be a part of it. Fans will respect it when they see it in games. My point is I highly doubt we are above 10th in the B1G this year and expect no post season tournaments, but I do believe a strong foundation can and will be set. Basketball doesn’t take as many positive leaders as other sports. 2-3 guys can carry a basketball team in the leadership category.
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If they were to win 3-4 games in the conference, you are talking about one of the worst seasons in program history. I have a hard time believing you will get buy in from players or fans if that happens. I completely agree that a basketball team doesn't need many guys in the leadership category, but the guys who lead have to be able to play. In this case Fox and Ihnen would not have played for this staff and it's unlikely any of the other 3 will be good enough for others to rally around if they really just had a truly awful season. We'll have 8 new guys coming in (more if the season is really that bad?) and the message to them is going to be work like we worked last year because it resulted in? A historically bad season? It's just going to be super hard to get buy in to follow a path that was really unsuccessful in year 1. It just seems like you have to start over selling your philosphy to the new guys at the point because 1. They will be better than your returners (or they damn well better be) and 2. They vastly outnumber your returners. If you are just talking about the 4 or 5 guys returning buying in, I could see it, but the new guys are really going to have to be sold on things.
 

EG#9 said:
If they were to win 3-4 games in the conference, you are talking about one of the worst seasons in program history. I have a hard time believing you will get buy in from players or fans if that happens. I completely agree that a basketball team doesn't need many guys in the leadership category, but the guys who lead have to be able to play. In this case Fox and Ihnen would not have played for this staff and it's unlikely any of the other 3 will be good enough for others to rally around if they really just had a truly awful season. We'll have 8 new guys coming in (more if the season is really that bad?) and the message to them is going to be work like we worked last year because it resulted in? A historically bad season? It's just going to be super hard to get buy in to follow a path that was really unsuccessful in year 1. It just seems like you have to start over selling your philosphy to the new guys at the point because 1. They will be better than your returners (or they damn well better be) and 2. They vastly outnumber your returners. If you are just talking about the 4 or 5 guys returning buying in, I could see it, but the new guys are really going to have to be sold on things.
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I do believe that even in a bad season, you can still instill and develop a new culture. It will not be easy even if this team won the conference. Sustained success is hard anywhere let alone here. I think Ben’s, Thorson and the rest of the staff will recruit kids who will buy in and understand the process. Even with that it won’t guarantee success here, but if like this plan more than the last one we watched and am willing to give it some time to develop before I become hypercritical.
 

manderson1984 said:
I do believe that even in a bad season, you can still instill and develop a new culture. It will not be easy even if this team won the conference. Sustained success is hard anywhere let alone here. I think Ben’s, Thorson and the rest of the staff will recruit kids who will buy in and understand the process. Even with that it won’t guarantee success here, but if like this plan more than the last one we watched and am willing to give it some time to develop before I become hypercritical.
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Quite frankly, I do not ever see you becoming hypercritical.
 

BarnBurner said:
Quite frankly, I do not ever see you becoming hypercritical.
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Thank you, I think it’s mostly worthless to do so and make an effort to not be. If you mean that I won’t jump off the Ben wagon in a couple years if it’s bad, then you’re wrong. I was actually pissed at the hire and was super upset we didn’t hire Craig Smith. I’ve changed my mind because I see what the focus and intended plan is and I think it’s one of our best chances to grow as a program.
I also stuck up for Pitino longer than most as well. I watch and study college basketball and have a different timeline and belief on how we can win more here than many others on this board.
 
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manderson1984 said:
Thank you, I think it’s mostly worthless to do so and make an effort to not be. If you mean that I won’t jump off the Ben wagon in a couple years if it’s bad, then you’re wrong. I was actually pissed at the hire and was super upset we didn’t hire Craig Smith. I’ve changed my time because I see what the focus and intended plan is and I think it’s one of our best chances to grow as a program.
I also stuck up for Pitino longer than most as well. I watch and study college basketball and have a different timeline and belief on how we can win more here than many others on this board.
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This describes my thoughts also. I tend to take a positive, can do, make it happen approach to situations instead of complaining about it. It has been very productive in my career and life. You can’t always control the situations that you face, but you can control how you deal with it.
 

manderson1984 said:
Thank you, I think it’s mostly worthless to do so and make an effort to not be. If you mean that I won’t jump off the Ben wagon in a couple years if it’s bad, then you’re wrong. I was actually pissed at the hire and was super upset we didn’t hire Craig Smith. I’ve changed my time because I see what the focus and intended plan is and I think it’s one of our best chances to grow as a program.
I also stuck up for Pitino longer than most as well. I watch and study college basketball and have a different timeline and belief on how we can win more here than many others on this board.
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manderson1984 said:
Thank you, I think it’s mostly worthless to do so and make an effort to not be. If you mean that I won’t jump off the Ben wagon in a couple years if it’s bad, then you’re wrong. I was actually pissed at the hire and was super upset we didn’t hire Craig Smith. I’ve changed my time because I see what the focus and intended plan is and I think it’s one of our best chances to grow as a program.
I also stuck up for Pitino longer than most as well. I watch and study college basketball and have a different timeline and belief on how we can win more here than many others on this board.
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I was with RP for 6 years. It was time for a change after that.....

What I see happening as a 5 decade fan is the "old guard" diehards are fed up with losing. Apathy has set in for sooooo many longtime fans. My own friends are examples. They simply find other ways to spend their time and resources. This is dangerous, imo.

If BJ can win, great. If he cant, it is really going to get ugly as far as program support.

This "culture" discussion has grown old and worn out its welcome, imo. Winners win, and many of them dont talk about "culture" at all. They simply win. It's a great slogan, buzzword. And yes, the winners dont necessarily need to talk about "culture". Just heard the same things far too many times over the decades.
 

alchemy2u said:
This describes my thoughts also. I tend to take a positive, can do, make it happen approach to situations instead of complaining about it. It has been very productive in my career and life. You can’t always control the situations that you face, but you can control how you deal with it.
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As do I. I will, however, call a spade a spade.

Complaining is one thing, stating concerns is quite another.
 

BarnBurner said:
I was with RP for 6 years. It was time for a change after that.....

What I see happening as a 5 decade fan is the "old guard" diehards are fed up with losing. Apathy has set in for sooooo many longtime fans. My own friends are examples. They simply find other ways to spend their time and resources. This is dangerous, imo.

If BJ can win, great. If he cant, it is really going to get ugly as far as program support.

This "culture" discussion has grown old and worn out its welcome, imo. Winners win, and many of them dont talk about "culture" at all. They simply win. It's a great slogan, buzzword. And yes, the winners dont necessarily need to talk about "culture". Just heard the same things far too many times over the decades.
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x1000. I'm hoping for the best, but this has the makings of a decade long disaster.
But at least we are doing it the "right way" :rolleyes:
 

manderson1984 said:
Thank you, I think it’s mostly worthless to do so and make an effort to not be. If you mean that I won’t jump off the Ben wagon in a couple years if it’s bad, then you’re wrong. I was actually pissed at the hire and was super upset we didn’t hire Craig Smith. I’ve changed my time because I see what the focus and intended plan is and I think it’s one of our best chances to grow as a program.
I also stuck up for Pitino longer than most as well. I watch and study college basketball and have a different timeline and belief on how we can win more here than many others on this board.
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Thank you for the level headed and well said post.

Can you elaborate more on the bolded? (maybe in another thread, if more appropriate)
 

BarnBurner said:
I was with RP for 6 years. It was time for a change after that.....

What I see happening as a 5 decade fan is the "old guard" diehards are fed up with losing. Apathy has set in for sooooo many longtime fans. My own friends are examples. They simply find other ways to spend their time and resources. This is dangerous, imo.

If BJ can win, great. If he cant, it is really going to get ugly as far as program support.

This "culture" discussion has grown old and worn out its welcome, imo. Winners win, and many of them dont talk about "culture" at all. They simply win. It's a great slogan, buzzword. And yes, the winners dont necessarily need to talk about "culture". Just heard the same things far too many times over the decades.
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I am younger, but I can fully respect and understand the fan apathy. It's ridiculous and annoying how bad we have been for so long. Sadly, this is a tough job for many reasons most out of fan control. I will agree that many use culture as a buzz word, but strong culture is truly the only variable that is the same along all winning programs. I like what Ben is trying to do. Whether he gets it done or not we will see.
 

MplsGopher said:
Thank you for the level headed and well said post.

Can you elaborate more on the bolded? (maybe in another thread, if more appropriate)
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It was suppose to say mind, but yes I'll explain what I see so far. This can change quickly once games play, but I see Ben and this staff finding guys who are able and willing to defend. Any article I read about potential recruits mentions their defense. I see them also finding and working on pieces that fit together. I don't think we will see classes that have Konate and Gaston, or Dupree, Jarvis Johnson, and Kevin Dorsey. I am seeing us focusing on Payne as a 5 who will be the bruiser, then looking for 4's who can pick and pop and space the floor (Wolf, Jasen Green). I see them chasing point guards who are nasty and tough (Tre, The Braumbaugh kid, and Pierre kid). All the other guards/wings I see us pursuing the hardest can shoot. I see our offense having better spacing and ball movement because the pieces will meld together better.

Lastly, I know that this staff is going to be about relationships and will build them genuinely and early. It's hurting us now, but I don't think we will ever see them without recruits in November like we did in the past regime. This is something that needs to be done to win here. I look at Purdue and Wisconsin as in conference and Virginia as non conference models of how we can and should build. Those programs all defend and identify talent early. They don't get many if any McDonalds AA kids, but they get 3-4 year developmental kids. I don't see us being able to follow a model of quick success like an Alabama or Arkansas for a variety of reasons. It will need to be built from the foundation and anyone who has built a house knows the dirt and block work is boring and slow, but the most important.
 

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