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GopherWeatherGuy said:
How do so many other schools do it with the same NIL situation as us, or no NIL like in the case of Northwestern? How does PJ remain competitive in football with a piddly NIL?
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They don’t. They recruit and develop them 95% of the time. That was my point for keeping Carrington.
GopherWeatherGuy said:
You sound like Tracy Claeys making excuses about switching to a 3-4 because 'all the good defensive lineman go to the helmet schools' and they couldn't recruit them here. Then PJ came in and moved back to the 4-3, has made the D even better, and put multiple defensive lineman in the NFL.
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Claeys is a clown. That wasn’t what I was doing at all. I’m just realistic about how we can develop and create guard depth. We can get some decent guys in the portal but we won’t be in the running for Nigel Packs or Terrance Shannon’s of the world.
GopherWeatherGuy said:
A good coach will find the recruits needed to win at whatever position
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Correct
GopherWeatherGuy said:
. Stop making up these pathetic excuses about how our NIL can't get recruits here. If Ben can't find better guards and wings, which there are plenty of in the portal every year, it's because he's not a good enough recruiter and coach to do so. That's it.
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NIL matters and it’s not a pathetic excuse in finding obvious quick fixes at the position. Correct on improving guard play whether we have NIL at all. We can talk about the sky being blue next if you’d like
 

Gopherfan84 said:
They don’t. They recruit and develop them 95% of the time. That was my point for keeping Carrington.

Claeys is a clown. That wasn’t what I was doing at all. I’m just realistic about how we can develop and create guard depth. We can get some decent guys in the portal but we won’t be in the running for Nigel Packs or Terrance Shannon’s of the world.

Correct

NIL matters and it’s not a pathetic excuse in finding obvious quick fixes at the position. Correct on improving guard play whether we have NIL at all. We can talk about the sky being blue next if you’d like
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Excuses for cbj are your thing. Many times each week.
 

BarnBurner said:
Excuses for cbj are your thing. Many times each week.
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Thanks for your input and opinion on topics that involve the current basketball recruiting landscape. It’s very valued and insightful.
 

Gopherfan84 said:
Yet Wisconsin is a top 20 defensive team every year. There is a level of athleticism that is required to belong at the D1 level. You can be on the lower end of that scale and still be a really good defender. Gabe K is a great example. Tyler Wahl is another one. Bring a great defender requires awareness, grit, and effort. You don’t need elite athleticism to be an elite defender.
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Gabe has not had his knees blown up, don’t think Wahl has either. Otherwise, the sentiment of your statement is accurate
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
Gabe has not had his knees blown up, don’t think Wahl has either. Otherwise, the sentiment of your statement is accurate
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Totally fair on the knees portion. I’d argue Curry was an above average positional defender as well. Lacked the explosion to protect the rim which certainly may be the case for the others too.
Most guys can come back from one ACL tear and not lose really anything. Two is a little different especially close to one another like these were.
 


Gopherfan84 said:
Thanks for your input and opinion on topics that involve the current basketball recruiting landscape. It’s very valued and insightful.
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Thanks for your valued opinion on topics that protect cbj. Always enlightening.
 

After the last few games I think there are very few players I would want to stay. Nobody can hit an open shot. Pretty tough to win a game now days without the ability to hit 3 pointers. Think I’d keep Payne, Garcia and that’s about it. All others don’t seem to be an upgrade over other freshmen or portal players.
 

This thread is about who you want to build with for next year. So who do you keep to build with?

#1 Priority: Get a PG from the portal. Should be easy for a P6 team to entice a quality PG from the portal because we can promise starter/playing time.

#2. Have a heart to heart with Fox. We signed him at a desperate time. He would have helped in 21-22 if he was healthy. We promised him 1 year. We have now given him 2 free years fully paid for at a great school. If miraculously healthy, who does he play in front of? Payne?, Evans?, Garcia? I see 0-5 minutes per game for a healthy Fox next season.

#3. TT. Sorry son. You can stay, but you will literally get zero minutes of playing time. Highly suggest you move on to summit league where you can get some PT.

#4. Cooper/Christie/portal PG/Carrington/Henley cover the PG and SG minutes. I would like to see the majority of those 80 minutes covered by portal PG/Cooper/Christie.

#5. The 3, small forward, shooting forward, wing, whatever you want to call that position: A combination of JOJ/Henley/Battle/Betts/Ihnen.

#6. The 4 and 5 positions. Depends on hot combinations, opponent, etc... Garcia/Payne/Evans/Ihnen.

My 2023-2024 roster:

Portal PG 30MPG
Cooper 10MPG at point, 15 at off guard
Christie 20MPG at SG
Carrington
Betts
Henley
Battle
Ihnen
JOJ
Garcia
Payne
Evans

The minutes for the 3, 4 and 5 will work themselves out by who is playing well, etc...

Yes that is only 12 names. I feel that the major minutes for the team (8-9 players) will come from these 12.
 

Big Dawg said:
This thread is about who you want to build with for next year. So who do you keep to build with?

#1 Priority: Get a PG from the portal. Should be easy for a P6 team to entice a quality PG from the portal because we can promise starter/playing time.

#2. Have a heart to heart with Fox. We signed him at a desperate time. He would have helped in 21-22 if he was healthy. We promised him 1 year. We have now given him 2 free years fully paid for at a great school. If miraculously healthy, who does he play in front of? Payne?, Evans?, Garcia? I see 0-5 minutes per game for a healthy Fox next season.

#3. TT. Sorry son. You can stay, but you will literally get zero minutes of playing time. Highly suggest you move on to summit league where you can get some PT.

#4. Cooper/Christie/portal PG/Carrington/Henley cover the PG and SG minutes. I would like to see the majority of those 80 minutes covered by portal PG/Cooper/Christie.

#5. The 3, small forward, shooting forward, wing, whatever you want to call that position: A combination of JOJ/Henley/Battle/Betts/Ihnen.

#6. The 4 and 5 positions. Depends on hot combinations, opponent, etc... Garcia/Payne/Evans/Ihnen.

My 2023-2024 roster:

Portal PG 30MPG
Cooper 10MPG at point, 15 at off guard
Christie 20MPG at SG
Carrington
Betts
Henley
Battle
Ihnen
JOJ
Garcia
Payne
Evans

The minutes for the 3, 4 and 5 will work themselves out by who is playing well, etc...

Yes that is only 12 names. I feel that the major minutes for the team (8-9 players) will come from these 12.
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Yes...or we thank Cooper and move on. He creates a potential perception problem for recruiting a portal guy and Cooper is not a ferocious defender by any means (he is good on the boards though) nor is he quick enough to break down a defense. I'd like to see two quick guards come in here- in case of injury to one.
 



gopherbadgerman said:
Battle is way worse than Charles Thomas, who was a role player on good teams.
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But what a role player Thomas was. It seemed that time and time again he would enter a game and immediately hit a three. The stout Gopher defense would then stop the opposition and Thomas would hit another three. The Gopher lead had just increased by 6 in less than a minute. Time out by the opponent to make adjustment for Thomas. I so loved that guy.
 

Big Dawg said:
This thread is about who you want to build with for next year. So who do you keep to build with?

#1 Priority: Get a PG from the portal. Should be easy for a P6 team to entice a quality PG from the portal because we can promise starter/playing time.

#2. Have a heart to heart with Fox. We signed him at a desperate time. He would have helped in 21-22 if he was healthy. We promised him 1 year. We have now given him 2 free years fully paid for at a great school. If miraculously healthy, who does he play in front of? Payne?, Evans?, Garcia? I see 0-5 minutes per game for a healthy Fox next season.

#3. TT. Sorry son. You can stay, but you will literally get zero minutes of playing time. Highly suggest you move on to summit league where you can get some PT.

#4. Cooper/Christie/portal PG/Carrington/Henley cover the PG and SG minutes. I would like to see the majority of those 80 minutes covered by portal PG/Cooper/Christie.

#5. The 3, small forward, shooting forward, wing, whatever you want to call that position: A combination of JOJ/Henley/Battle/Betts/Ihnen.

#6. The 4 and 5 positions. Depends on hot combinations, opponent, etc... Garcia/Payne/Evans/Ihnen.

My 2023-2024 roster:

Portal PG 30MPG
Cooper 10MPG at point, 15 at off guard
Christie 20MPG at SG
Carrington
Betts
Henley
Battle
Ihnen
JOJ
Garcia
Payne
Evans

The minutes for the 3, 4 and 5 will work themselves out by who is playing well, etc...

Yes that is only 12 names. I feel that the major minutes for the team (8-9 players) will come from these 12.
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This is where I would be at with it as well. Can Fox play as a graduate walk on or does he have to count as a scholarship player if he plays?
With the names you have listed here, I would add Treyton as that 13th scholarship. Evans blows up during the year and becomes a 1 and done, then the following year Treyton fills that spot with minimal drop off!! :)
 

After 2 years of players it appears that Ben and the staff have not brought together Big Ten level talent. I feel bad for Coyle.
 

Great insights. I wonder what will actually happen this offseason with the "if" scenarios and the glut of forwards.

Carrington and Henley booster here.
 



I’d keep Garcia, Payne,Carrington, Ola, and maybe Henley. The rest can go
 

gopherbadgerman said:
I’d keep Garcia, Payne,Carrington, Ola, and maybe Henley. The rest can go
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could you imagine the train wreck it would be for Ben to try and fill 6 open roster spots coming off a 7 win season?
 

Keep all that want to stay. If Johnson parts with anyone I will trust that decision. You have to let the team grow. I looked at B1G rosters and depth charts of listed starters/rotation guys.

There are 110 guys playing in the B1G this season regularly.
34% SR; 29% JR; 14% SO; and 25% FR. 63% Upperclassmen and 37% Underclassmen.

Here's the % of Upperclassmen on each roster of rotation guys.
Rutger 88%
Penn State 88%
Maryland 86%
Iowa 86%
WI 75%
Indiana 71%
Northwestern 67%
Michigan State 63%
Purdue 63%
Michigan 50%
tOSU 50%
Minnesota 50%
Illinois 38%
Nebraska 38%

Look at the standings and everyone over 50% except Penn State is within 2 games of a top 4 finish.
Michigan & Illinois are exceeding expectations of the 50% or lower crowd. Their talent level seems to be a bit different.
 

"Keep all that want to stay. If Johnson parts with anyone I will trust that decision. You have to let the team grow. I looked at B1G rosters and depth charts of listed starters/rotation guys."

If Ben goes with this ^, who plays the 1 and 2? Cooper/Carrington/Christie/? Basically my take is that at least one other current player (TT/Fox/?) has to go so we can get at least one true PG from the portal. W/out a servicable PG from the portal, we are definitely weakling Wednesday again next season (most likely dead last in the BIG again).
 

Big Dawg said:
"Keep all that want to stay. If Johnson parts with anyone I will trust that decision. You have to let the team grow. I looked at B1G rosters and depth charts of listed starters/rotation guys."

If Ben goes with this ^, who plays the 1 and 2? Cooper/Carrington/Christie/? Basically my take is that at least one other current player (TT/Fox/?) has to go so we can get at least one true PG from the portal. W/out a servicable PG from the portal, we are definitely weakling Wednesday again next season (most likely dead last in the BIG again).
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That's my thinking as well. Looking at depth charts, teams really only play 7-9 guys in their rotation and other are listed as limited minutes guys. This depth chart had Carrington as Limited minutes as the 9th guy basically.

Who are the 7-9 guys you want in the rotation next year would be the better question? The rest of the roster plays during injuries, foul trouble and in practice.

A true point guard plays basically 35-40 minutes a night and you don't play 3 of them for sure.

10 Teams had 8 guys in Rotation
3 teams had 7
1 team had 9
 

MaxyJR1 said:
That's my thinking as well. Looking at depth charts, teams really only play 7-9 guys in their rotation and other are listed as limited minutes guys. This depth chart had Carrington as Limited minutes as the 9th guy basically.

Who are the 7-9 guys you want in the rotation next year would be the better question? The rest of the roster plays during injuries, foul trouble and in practice.

A true point guard plays basically 35-40 minutes a night and you don't play 3 of them for sure.

10 Teams had 8 guys in Rotation
3 teams had 7
1 team had 9
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Hard to guess what the exact numbers will look like at the end of 23/24. Let's go with 9. Here they are:

PG=Transfer portal PG-35MPG
SG=Cooper/Christie/Carrington-one will shine above the rest. I anticipate Cooper being the main guy early in the season
3=JOJ/Henley/Betts/Ihnen. Battle is not a 3. Ben will probably try to put him there. I don't know which one of these 4 will distance themselves from the croud. Also joj maybe more of a 4. I honestly am not super thrilled at our prospects at the 3. Maybe Christie. This is my least solid position of the 5.
4=Garcia. If we go small lineup sometimes I could see Garcia at the 5 and Battle at the 4. Battle to spell Garcia when he needs a break at the 4.
5=Payne to start the season. Evans maybe later on.

My guess at the 9 for the first 10 games:
Portal PG
Cooper
Garcia
Payne
Christie
JOJ
Henley
Ihnen
Battle

After the first 10 games Evans may sneak into the top 9. Tough seeing a scenario where both Evans and Payne are happy. In a way I sort of want Payne to take a big end of season/off season leap so he is a stud to start next season-while Evans developes a little slower. Currently don't see Evans as an immediate impact guy. Obviously anybody (Betts/Carrington/Henley/JOJ/Ihnen) can surprise and rise above the pack. I will put a Ben Franklin on the fact that TT WILL NOT be one of the top 9. Actually suspect he and Fox will not be on the roster next fall.
 

My actual bet is that Ben goes with Cooper, Carrington, Battle, Garcia and Payne to start. The other 4 being JOJ, Henley, Christie and Evans. (Depends on Ihnen's health). Yup, no PG from the portal. Hope he proves me wrong.
 

Big Dawg said:
My actual bet is that Ben goes with Cooper, Carrington, Battle, Garcia and Payne to start. The other 4 being JOJ, Henley, Christie and Evans. (Depends on Ihnen's health). Yup, no PG from the portal. Hope he proves me wrong.
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Nightmare scenario
 

tikited said:
No way Battle accepts coming off the bench. He came here to be the man.
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No reason Battle should be on the bench unless you want to destroy his confidence or make him quit. He has plus talents but he hasn't been put in favorable spots this year. You need a team defense that masks his defensive shortcomings...his offense is worth it if you put hum in position to avg 20 plus.
 

60's Guy said:
No reason Battle should be on the bench unless you want to destroy his confidence or make him quit. He has plus talents but he hasn't been put in favorable spots this year. You need a team defense that masks his defensive shortcomings...his offense is worth it if you put hum in position to avg 20 plus.
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Might want to read this gives a hint that Battle has been hampered by more than a foot injury. Per Marcus Fuller article

Battle, who played with McCaffery on D1 Minnesota's AAU team, has gone through personal adversity this season.
 

offer NDSU 6 11 Grant Nelson $150k. Dude is top 10 forward on nba draft boards and is local & give gophers a better following up north
 



Big Dawg said:
My actual bet is that Ben goes with Cooper, Carrington, Battle, Garcia and Payne to start. The other 4 being JOJ, Henley, Christie and Evans. (Depends on Ihnen's health). Yup, no PG from the portal. Hope he proves me wrong.
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I’ll be shocked if we don’t add a guard from the portal.
 




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