Coyle can cite in-state recruiting misses when considering Richard Pitino’s future

BleedGopher

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But under Pitino, the Gophers haven’t kept enough talented in-state player at home. Given Minnesota’s middling pedigree in the Big Ten, the best in-state products have opted instead for some of the best programs in the nation. No coach wins ’em all, and the best-of-the-best are even harder to net.

(See: Tyus and Tre Jones leaving Apple Valley for Duke; Michael Hurt exiting Rochester for the Blue Devils; Jalen Suggs leaving Minneapolis for Gonzaga; and Chet Holmgren is expected to soon make the same move as Suggs.)


Go Gophers!!
 

It’s not even about the Blue Chip McDonald’s All-American players. It’s about keeping the strong secondary talent home and building continuity and a bench and sustained success. THEN you may hit on a Blue Chip guy. Anyone who expected any of those 5* guys to stay home during our low to middling success instead of the bright lights and national recognition is delusional.
 

It seems like a number of the players ranked outside the top 30 or top 40 from Minnesota have had decent, but amazing careers.

Jericho Sims has never averaged double digits in points or rebounds, though he does shoot around 65% from the field, which I think is pretty good, even for a big man, and you could argue his production is curtailed by having to share minutes with some of the 5-stars that Shaka Smart brings in.

Brad Davison's scoring totals have dropped every year, in addition to just being insufferable on the court. He's also shooting about 33% from the field as a senior, compared to around 39% his first 3 years.

Nate Reuvers was third team all Big Ten as a junior, his only season averaging double digit scoring. He also averages under 4 rebounds a game for his career at 6'11"

Tyler Wahl is averaging 5.3 points and 4.5 rebounds in 25 minutes a game this year. Isaiah Ihnen is comparable in per 40 metrics, scoring a little less, and rebounding a little more, but he only plays 15 minutes a game.

Alex Illikainen averaged 1.5 points per game in his 3 years in D-I before dropping to D-II as a senior.

Joe Hedstrom has played in 14 games and scored a total of 6 points in his two years at Wisconsin.

Theo John is averaging 8 points and 5 rebounds as a senior.

Race Thompson is at 9 points and 6 rebounds as a junior.

I don't look at that sort of production and think that we could never get a player of that caliber from out of state, so we absolutely need to capitalize on the ones that grow up near here.

The ones that jump out at me as difference makers that it seems like we could have reasonably gotten and didn't are McKinley Wright, David Roddy, Dawson Garcia, and Kerwin Walton. Wright and Roddy both appear to have significantly outplayed their rankings (Wright was outside the top 150, Roddy was very far down, possibly didn't have a ranking), and the PAC-12 and Mountain West are weaker conferences than the Big Ten. Dawson Garcia took an official visit here, which a lot of in-state recruits do not, and would have been the highest or second highest ranked recruit in the Pitino era, right around where Oturu was. Kerwin Walton is averaging 41.5% from 3 on nearly 5 attempts per game, and averaging 8 points, and nearly 2 assists and 2 rebounds per game, but, when it came down to the wire, he chose one of the premier programs in all of college basketball over us.

For some attainable and forgotten out of state targets:

Marcus Zegarowski was Big East all freshman team, all Big East second team as a sophomore, all Big East first team as a junior. Has averaged over 15 points a game his past 2 seasons, in addition to averaging 5 assists, 4 rebounds, 42% from 3, and 52% from 2 for his career. Low 4 star from Massachusetts.

Shamorie Ponds was Big East all freshman team, and first team all Big East in both his sophomore and junior years, averaging 19.5 points per game over his 3 years at St. John's, along with over 4 assists, 4 rebounds, and 2 steals per game.

Wade Baldwin averaged 14 points and 5 assists his sophomore year at Vanderbilt and was a 40% 3 point shooter, then got drafted in the first round of the 2016 NBA draft. 3 star out of New Jersey who actually visited Minnesota.

Riley LaChance also averaged double digit scoring and over 40% from 3 in his 4 years at Vandy. Low 4 star/high 3 star out of Wisconsin.

Tyrese Haliburton was another out of state 3 star the Gophers went after who went to the NBA after his sophomore year. Not sure if were close to getting him at all, but he ended up at Iowa State.

I guess as far as establishing a pipeline, where like all the players from this area come to Minnesota, then in-state is the way to go, but I think you can also viably assemble a strong roster here by being able to hit on some of the 100-150 ranked players from out of state who can be good 3 or 4 year contributors or even stars.
 

It seems like a number of the players ranked outside the top 30 or top 40 from Minnesota have had decent, but amazing careers.

Jericho Sims has never averaged double digits in points or rebounds, though he does shoot around 65% from the field, which I think is pretty good, even for a big man, and you could argue his production is curtailed by having to share minutes with some of the 5-stars that Shaka Smart brings in.

Brad Davison's scoring totals have dropped every year, in addition to just being insufferable on the court. He's also shooting about 33% from the field as a senior, compared to around 39% his first 3 years.

Nate Reuvers was third team all Big Ten as a junior, his only season averaging double digit scoring. He also averages under 4 rebounds a game for his career at 6'11"

Tyler Wahl is averaging 5.3 points and 4.5 rebounds in 25 minutes a game this year. Isaiah Ihnen is comparable in per 40 metrics, scoring a little less, and rebounding a little more, but he only plays 15 minutes a game.

Alex Illikainen averaged 1.5 points per game in his 3 years in D-I before dropping to D-II as a senior.

Joe Hedstrom has played in 14 games and scored a total of 6 points in his two years at Wisconsin.

Theo John is averaging 8 points and 5 rebounds as a senior.

Race Thompson is at 9 points and 6 rebounds as a junior.

I don't look at that sort of production and think that we could never get a player of that caliber from out of state, so we absolutely need to capitalize on the ones that grow up near here.

The ones that jump out at me as difference makers that it seems like we could have reasonably gotten and didn't are McKinley Wright, David Roddy, Dawson Garcia, and Kerwin Walton. Wright and Roddy both appear to have significantly outplayed their rankings (Wright was outside the top 150, Roddy was very far down, possibly didn't have a ranking), and the PAC-12 and Mountain West are weaker conferences than the Big Ten. Dawson Garcia took an official visit here, which a lot of in-state recruits do not, and would have been the highest or second highest ranked recruit in the Pitino era, right around where Oturu was. Kerwin Walton is averaging 41.5% from 3 on nearly 5 attempts per game, and averaging 8 points, and nearly 2 assists and 2 rebounds per game, but, when it came down to the wire, he chose one of the premier programs in all of college basketball over us.

For some attainable and forgotten out of state targets:

Marcus Zegarowski was Big East all freshman team, all Big East second team as a sophomore, all Big East first team as a junior. Has averaged over 15 points a game his past 2 seasons, in addition to averaging 5 assists, 4 rebounds, 42% from 3, and 52% from 2 for his career. Low 4 star from Massachusetts.

Shamorie Ponds was Big East all freshman team, and first team all Big East in both his sophomore and junior years, averaging 19.5 points per game over his 3 years at St. John's, along with over 4 assists, 4 rebounds, and 2 steals per game.

Wade Baldwin averaged 14 points and 5 assists his sophomore year at Vanderbilt and was a 40% 3 point shooter, then got drafted in the first round of the 2016 NBA draft. 3 star out of New Jersey who actually visited Minnesota.

Riley LaChance also averaged double digit scoring and over 40% from 3 in his 4 years at Vandy. Low 4 star/high 3 star out of Wisconsin.

Tyrese Haliburton was another out of state 3 star the Gophers went after who went to the NBA after his sophomore year. Not sure if were close to getting him at all, but he ended up at Iowa State.

I guess as far as establishing a pipeline, where like all the players from this area come to Minnesota, then in-state is the way to go, but I think you can also viably assemble a strong roster here by being able to hit on some of the 100-150 ranked players from out of state who can be good 3 or 4 year contributors or even stars.
Great post. Many of those wisconsin MN kids had really pedestrian careers. Interesting to see the numbers
 

I wonder how many other schools have local recruiting as a performance measure for coaches? As Cayman points out Richard could eye under the Radar talent . He just couldn’t get enough to come here either local or not. That was his demise.

I am in the camp of local recruiting being important as a measurement of enthusiasm but not essential if quality players come from elsewhere. Seems like it would be easier to attract local high end talent than national to a middling major conference program.
 


It seems like a number of the players ranked outside the top 30 or top 40 from Minnesota have had decent, but amazing careers.

Jericho Sims has never averaged double digits in points or rebounds, though he does shoot around 65% from the field, which I think is pretty good, even for a big man, and you could argue his production is curtailed by having to share minutes with some of the 5-stars that Shaka Smart brings in.

Brad Davison's scoring totals have dropped every year, in addition to just being insufferable on the court. He's also shooting about 33% from the field as a senior, compared to around 39% his first 3 years.

Nate Reuvers was third team all Big Ten as a junior, his only season averaging double digit scoring. He also averages under 4 rebounds a game for his career at 6'11"

Tyler Wahl is averaging 5.3 points and 4.5 rebounds in 25 minutes a game this year. Isaiah Ihnen is comparable in per 40 metrics, scoring a little less, and rebounding a little more, but he only plays 15 minutes a game.

Alex Illikainen averaged 1.5 points per game in his 3 years in D-I before dropping to D-II as a senior.

Joe Hedstrom has played in 14 games and scored a total of 6 points in his two years at Wisconsin.

Theo John is averaging 8 points and 5 rebounds as a senior.

Race Thompson is at 9 points and 6 rebounds as a junior.

I don't look at that sort of production and think that we could never get a player of that caliber from out of state, so we absolutely need to capitalize on the ones that grow up near here.

The ones that jump out at me as difference makers that it seems like we could have reasonably gotten and didn't are McKinley Wright, David Roddy, Dawson Garcia, and Kerwin Walton. Wright and Roddy both appear to have significantly outplayed their rankings (Wright was outside the top 150, Roddy was very far down, possibly didn't have a ranking), and the PAC-12 and Mountain West are weaker conferences than the Big Ten. Dawson Garcia took an official visit here, which a lot of in-state recruits do not, and would have been the highest or second highest ranked recruit in the Pitino era, right around where Oturu was. Kerwin Walton is averaging 41.5% from 3 on nearly 5 attempts per game, and averaging 8 points, and nearly 2 assists and 2 rebounds per game, but, when it came down to the wire, he chose one of the premier programs in all of college basketball over us.

For some attainable and forgotten out of state targets:

Marcus Zegarowski was Big East all freshman team, all Big East second team as a sophomore, all Big East first team as a junior. Has averaged over 15 points a game his past 2 seasons, in addition to averaging 5 assists, 4 rebounds, 42% from 3, and 52% from 2 for his career. Low 4 star from Massachusetts.

Shamorie Ponds was Big East all freshman team, and first team all Big East in both his sophomore and junior years, averaging 19.5 points per game over his 3 years at St. John's, along with over 4 assists, 4 rebounds, and 2 steals per game.

Wade Baldwin averaged 14 points and 5 assists his sophomore year at Vanderbilt and was a 40% 3 point shooter, then got drafted in the first round of the 2016 NBA draft. 3 star out of New Jersey who actually visited Minnesota.

Riley LaChance also averaged double digit scoring and over 40% from 3 in his 4 years at Vandy. Low 4 star/high 3 star out of Wisconsin.

Tyrese Haliburton was another out of state 3 star the Gophers went after who went to the NBA after his sophomore year. Not sure if were close to getting him at all, but he ended up at Iowa State.

I guess as far as establishing a pipeline, where like all the players from this area come to Minnesota, then in-state is the way to go, but I think you can also viably assemble a strong roster here by being able to hit on some of the 100-150 ranked players from out of state who can be good 3 or 4 year contributors or even stars.
Excellent post.

Garcia and Walton were the two that really hurt, imo. Get them and things are different.
 

Agree 100% Both are shot makers which is exactly what this team needed. One of the two would of made a difference.
 

Pitino recruited athletes he believed would develop a shot when he often needed to downshift and recruit the less athletic shooter. I wouldn't be shocked to see him recruit better when his recruiting is constrained by a lesser school/conference.
 

I disagree. We have been a team with a profound lack of depth over the course of Pitino's run. This team was supposed to be his deepest and there just wasn't much there.

I think our W/L record looks quite a bit different if we have guys like Theo John, Sacar Anim, Nate Ruevers, etc.

The secondary impact of local recruiting is that (I believe) it can have an exponential impact. If all else is equal, people will watch the local guys. I think there will be a group of kids from Minneapolis in the next 3-5 years who followed the U closer because of Tyler Johnson.
 
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It’s not even about the Blue Chip McDonald’s All-American players. It’s about keeping the strong secondary talent home and building continuity and a bench and sustained success. THEN you may hit on a Blue Chip guy. Anyone who expected any of those 5* guys to stay home during our low to middling success instead of the bright lights and national recognition is delusional.

Very true! I can fully understand why the very best players go elsewhere. These players very likely wouldn't go to their in-state programs if they lived in Iowa, Nebraska, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, or New Jersey either (and likely not even Illinois for most of the 21st century).

But, these less celebrated current players would have helped a lot: David Roddy, Steffon Mitchell, Jamison Battle. Of course, we all know about McKinley Wright but that miss has been talked to death.

These players from earlier this century would have had a big impact:

Troy Bell (not a top 100 recruit but had a fantastic career at BC)
Jon Leuer (only a consensus #88)
And, my favorite under-the-radar Gopher miss: Mike Muscala, who proceeded to have a career 29.5 player efficiency rating at Bucknell (35+ in his last season) and is now in his 8th NBA season.
 


I wonder how many other schools have local recruiting as a performance measure for coaches? As Cayman points out Richard could eye under the Radar talent . He just couldn’t get enough to come here either local or not. That was his demise.

I am in the camp of local recruiting being important as a measurement of enthusiasm but not essential if quality players come from elsewhere. Seems like it would be easier to attract local high end talent than national to a middling major conference program.
I find that pitino’s demise was roster management generally.

he always seemed to have enough high end talent to compete, never had the depth.

For whatever reason he couldn’t develop role players. Many guys transferred out without developing. The non starters who stuck around 4 years were guys like hurt and Konate who are guys not good enough to play roles on championship caliber teams. We were always filling in gaps.

we could be some of the good teams some of the time....but we didn’t have the depth or continuity to beat the bottom half 90%
of the time and the top half 51% of the time.


I think that’s my goal for the program. If we beat the bottom half 90% of the time and the top half 51% of the time...you’re in the mix every year.

against top half we are 4-8
Against the bottom half we are 2-6

In 19-20
4-8 against top half
4-4 against bottom half

In 18-19
3-7 against top half
5-4 against bottom half
 
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