Clem on Ben Johnson: "I feel for him. You can tell he's a motivated coach. He coaches hard. He just doesn't have enough players...it takes time."

[Gophers_4life]

Is/should winning at Minnesota be easier or harder than winning at Northwestern?

 

[Gophers_4life]

Also I love this sentence from the OP:

He just doesn't have enough players that are ready to win.


Not ready to win. Wow.

"Yeah, you know, he works really hard in the weight room and the practice floor. Busts his ass in the game giving everything he's got. Just isn't ready to win yet. Not ready."


I'm shocked that Fleck hasn't used this one first! That's as Fleckian as you get, right there!

 

[BarnBurner]

Don’t accept what you don’t want to. I never said you couldn’t win here. Just said that the only ones who did got fired for cheating. Outcompeting your peers is correct, but we aren’t all at the same playing field resources wise. Again, doesn’t mean it can’t be done here, but it’s not as easy I think some think it is

Has to start at the very top. At MN, it doesn't.

If MN truly wanted to win, their actions - all of them - would be vastly different with respect to all things Mens BB.

 

[cjbfbp]

Is/should winning at Minnesota be easier or harder than winning at Northwestern?

I would say easier but remember that Northwestern had five straight losing seasons before this one. Never let your conclusions get too caught up in the moment.

 

[cjbfbp]

If MN truly wanted to win, their actions - all of them - would be vastly different with respect to all things Mens BB.

I don't think that conclusion is avoidable. Perhaps we could say that they hope to win but are not determined to achieve that outcome with any regularity.

 

[Gophers_4life]

I would say easier but remember that Northwestern had five straight losing seasons before this one. Never let your conclusions get too caught up in the moment.

Interestingly (perhaps), 2016-17 was the last winning Big Ten record for both the Gophers and NW.

 

[bc2211]

Go read the original post. He worded it in a way that he was calling him one. He changed and said mediocre in a response.

He also was part of Miles first year at Nebraska with Craig Smith on staff too. If you look at building and the model he’s following, that’s where you look. Miles tears down and rebuilds. As far as his qualifications, no one here is arguing he was qualified. Again go look what I posted when it was announced. I wasn’t happy.

I read and reread the original post and I don’t think there was any thing malicious or unearned. The statement was that BJ hasn’t been a winner, which I believe to be true and inoffensive characterization of his results up this point in time.

I appreciate and generally agree with your perspective on the hire and the status, but I think you are fighting a straw man when you put the word “loser” in quotes and then tell us that you know him. CBJ is obviously knowledgeable and relatable to the current generation. While I have no faith in Coyle, he worked with Boehiem and should have some appreciation for what a head basketball coach needs to be.

Im not looking for shortcuts - I grew up watching Dick Bennett and Bo Ryan elevate that program a little bit every year until 2015 (and I think it would have kept climbing had Diamond Stone ended up a badger and filled the huge hole at C. I think Ryan would have kept coaching for a couple more years, but I digress). A hallmark of the Bo Ryan years was watching young guys add a new element to their game every few months - whether it be a post move, increased range, jump shot, etc. I can be patient if players improve, gaps close. So far, I think JOJ is the only player that’s visibly added to his game since day 1. Garcia seemed to find a second gear at some point, so I give BJ credit there as well.

Ultimately next year is a big year for me. I’m a firm believer in programmatic momentum, and I think we have to show signs of life next year, otherwise we make it increasingly hard on ourselves.

 

[Bad Gopher]

I read and reread the original post and I don’t think there was any thing malicious or unearned. The statement was that BJ hasn’t been a winner, which I believe to be true and inoffensive characterization of his results up this point in time.

I appreciate and generally agree with your perspective on the hire and the status, but I think you are fighting a straw man when you put the word “loser” in quotes and then tell us that you know him. CBJ is obviously knowledgeable and relatable to the current generation. While I have no faith in Coyle, he worked with Boehiem and should have some appreciation for what a head basketball coach needs to be.

Im not looking for shortcuts - I grew up watching Dick Bennett and Bo Ryan elevate that program a little bit every year until 2015 (and I think it would have kept climbing had Diamond Stone ended up a badger and filled the huge hole at C. I think Ryan would have kept coaching for a couple more years, but I digress). A hallmark of the Bo Ryan years was watching young guys add a new element to their game every few months - whether it be a post move, increased range, jump shot, etc. I can be patient if players improve, gaps close. So far, I think JOJ is the only player that’s visibly added to his game since day 1. Garcia seemed to find a second gear at some point, so I give BJ credit there as well.

Ultimately next year is a big year for me. I’m a firm believer in programmatic momentum, and I think we have to show signs of life next year, otherwise we make it increasingly hard on ourselves.

Worth noting: he tried to kick Boehiem to the curb.

 

[Gophers_4life]

Worth noting: he tried to kick Boehiem to the curb.

Really believes in himself that he can pick winners.

 

[WindyCityGopher]

Go read the original post. He worded it in a way that he was calling him one. He changed and said mediocre in a response.

He also was part of Miles first year at Nebraska with Craig Smith on staff too. If you look at building and the model he’s following, that’s where you look. Miles tears down and rebuilds. As far as his qualifications, no one here is arguing he was qualified. Again go look what I posted when it was announced. I wasn’t happy.

Since you insist on making it an issue, I never used the word “loser” anywhere in my post to describe Ben. You’re the one who interpreted it that way based on me calling Clem a winner as a player and coach and saying Ben will likely never be that. Does that only leave the option for him to be a loser? Of course not, there’s plenty of grey area between those opposite ends of the spectrum, and I believe Ben falls into the intensely mediocre zone along with a lot of other coaches, His track record, particularly as a coach, proves it. Can’t see how anyone can argue otherwise at this point.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

Worth noting: he tried to kick Boehiem to the curb.

He probably should have. Boeheim has had a few nice runs in the NCAA tournament after barely making it, otherwise they’ve been a .500 and ~8th place team in the ACC for the last 9 years.

That’s a far cry from where they were in the Boeheim glory days.

 

[Gopherfan84]

Since you insist on making it an issue, I never used the word “loser” anywhere in my post to describe Ben. You’re the one who interpreted it that way based on me calling Clem a winner as a player and coach and saying Ben will likely never be that. Does that only leave the option for him to be a loser? Of course not, there’s plenty of grey area between those opposite ends of the spectrum, and I believe Ben falls into the intensely mediocre zone along with a lot of other coaches, His track record, particularly as a coach, proves it. Can’t see how anyone can argue otherwise at this point.

I’d moved on, but I agree in the grey and you clarified it. Thanks and I appreciate that. To be fair when I posted that I was in the middle of a grey and black/white discussion about a different topic. He’s a bad P6 HC at this juncture by any measurable stat. Even a bad P6 coach is a top 1% coach in the country.

 

[Spaulding!No!]

I like Ben and think he has what I takes to be great. One of my favorite things about Ben Is the one word answers he gives on the Grimm radio show. Grimm is left out there hanging……

 

[Holy Man]

Worth noting: he tried to kick Boehiem to the curb.

And Syracuse hasn’t been Syracuse for several years, either. Not sure the timing of the failed kick to the curb attempt, but the Orange have not met their high standards for years. I’m not ageist, but it does appear Boeheim extended the career a bit too long. There are a lot of ways to stay connected and valuable as time wanes on without needing to be in complete charge.

 

[Holy Man]

Really believes in himself that he can pick winners.

Mixed record here but not complete failure. Fleck and Motzko are A hires right now. Whalen was worth the chance despite not working. Ben is the only unmitigated disaster so far, and there is still time. And plenty of speculation he had superiors too entangled in the process. Critique the guy if you like, but picking coaches hasn’t been that bad.

His predecessor was a bit more of an egomaniac than Coyle.

 

[Otis]

Mixed record here but not complete failure. Fleck and Motzko are A hires right now. Whalen was worth the chance despite not working. Ben is the only unmitigated disaster so far, and there is still time. And plenty of speculation he had superiors too entangled in the process. Critique the guy if you like, but picking coaches hasn’t been that bad.

His predecessor was a bit more of an egomaniac than Coyle.

Unmitigated disaster? Well, I wouldn’t go that far.

What are the qualities needed in a college basketball coach and what is Ben’s score so far?

Recruiting - A, he has brought in some talent and has even more in the way. Even the portal guys have been decent led by Garcia and Battle. Hard to be a disaster overall with an A score here.
Player Development - incomplete, we aren’t far enough down the road to judge this. TT is not better but the freshmen have improved with time. Just haven’t seen enough here yet.
Establishing a culture - D, there is no obvious trait for these guys. They aren’t defensive or offensive, last year they were team hustle! Not sure what he wants them to be and from the outside it looks like the players don’t know either.
Coaching - D, Clem says he’s coaching hard. I’ve seen lots of people try really hard to do something even with poor results and come up with nothing. So far he hasn’t displayed great coaching.
Wins - F, scoreboard don’t lie. Even with this poorly matched lineup with major limitations, they should have more wins.

So I give him a D. Things do have potential to improve though, but he needs to ace the off-season for that to happen.

 

[Holy Man]

Unmitigated disaster? Well, I wouldn’t go that far.

What are the qualities needed in a college basketball coach and what is Ben’s score so far?

Recruiting - A, he has brought in some talent and has even more in the way. Even the portal guys have been decent led by Garcia and Battle. Hard to be a disaster overall with an A score here.
Player Development - incomplete, we aren’t far enough down the road to judge this. TT is not better but the freshmen have improved with time. Just haven’t seen enough here yet.
Establishing a culture - D, there is no obvious trait for these guys. They aren’t defensive or offensive, last year they were team hustle! Not sure what he wants them to be and from the outside it looks like the players don’t know either.
Coaching - D, Clem says he’s coaching hard. I’ve seen lots of people try really hard to do something even with poor results and come up with nothing. So far he hasn’t displayed great coaching.
Wins - F, scoreboard don’t lie. Even with this poorly matched lineup with major limitations, they should have more wins.

So I give him a D. Things do have potential to improve though, but he needs to ace the off-season for that to happen.

I qualified it with so far. We can differ on details but two historically bad seasons in a row is certainly in range of unmitigated disaster. There are a few glimmers of hope that you correctly point out, but seeing those show up on the court seems less likely. I wouldn’t argue with the D but an F is justified.

I’m with you that spring portal and improvements in current roster are key but portal work with a last place team is a really heavy lift.

 

[Holy Man]

Unmitigated disaster? Well, I wouldn’t go that far.

What are the qualities needed in a college basketball coach and what is Ben’s score so far?

Recruiting - A, he has brought in some talent and has even more in the way. Even the portal guys have been decent led by Garcia and Battle. Hard to be a disaster overall with an A score here.
Player Development - incomplete, we aren’t far enough down the road to judge this. TT is not better but the freshmen have improved with time. Just haven’t seen enough here yet.
Establishing a culture - D, there is no obvious trait for these guys. They aren’t defensive or offensive, last year they were team hustle! Not sure what he wants them to be and from the outside it looks like the players don’t know either.
Coaching - D, Clem says he’s coaching hard. I’ve seen lots of people try really hard to do something even with poor results and come up with nothing. So far he hasn’t displayed great coaching.
Wins - F, scoreboard don’t lie. Even with this poorly matched lineup with major limitations, they should have more wins.

So I give him a D. Things do have potential to improve though, but he needs to ace the off-season for that to happen.

I qualified it with so far. We can differ on details but two historically bad seasons in a row is certainly in range of unmitigated disaster. There are a few glimmers of hope that you correctly point out, but seeing those show up on the court seems less likely. I wouldn’t argue with the D but an F is justified.
I’m with you that spring portal and improvements in current roster are key but portal work with a last place team is a really heavy lift.

 

[Bad Gopher]

I qualified it with so far. We can differ on details but two historically bad seasons in a row is certainly in range of unmitigated disaster. There are a few glimmers of hope that you correctly point out, but seeing those show up on the court seems less likely. I wouldn’t argue with the D but an F is justified.

I’m with you that spring portal and improvements in current roster are key but portal work with a last place team is a really heavy lift.

I think, if you asked people two years ago what would be success and what would be unmitigated disaster, it would have been unanimous that the worst two-year run in program history would be unmitigated disaster.

 

[fan of Ray Williams]

Was easier to handle last year than this year. Very disappointing thus far this season. At times during the course of the game they are just an absolute mess. Lost faith in any semblance of becoming a decent team defensively.

 

[Holy Man]

Was easier to handle last year than this year. Very disappointing thus far this season. At times during the course of the game they are just an absolute mess. Lost faith in any semblance of becoming a decent team defensively.

I didn’t necessarily expect better on floor results this year but certainly expected to see improvement and reason for future hope which would include a clear identity. Last year’s hopeful sign was an organized offensive scheme, which seems like it would be directly coaching related. Not seeing that this year is shocking, disappointing, and discouraging. Better talent and some experience might help next year but still hard to be optimistic. The portal could change that, but it needs to be proven to me.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

Unmitigated disaster? Well, I wouldn’t go that far.

What are the qualities needed in a college basketball coach and what is Ben’s score so far?

Recruiting - A, he has brought in some talent and has even more in the way. Even the portal guys have been decent led by Garcia and Battle. Hard to be a disaster overall with an A score here.
Player Development - incomplete, we aren’t far enough down the road to judge this. TT is not better but the freshmen have improved with time. Just haven’t seen enough here yet.
Establishing a culture - D, there is no obvious trait for these guys. They aren’t defensive or offensive, last year they were team hustle! Not sure what he wants them to be and from the outside it looks like the players don’t know either.
Coaching - D, Clem says he’s coaching hard. I’ve seen lots of people try really hard to do something even with poor results and come up with nothing. So far he hasn’t displayed great coaching.
Wins - F, scoreboard don’t lie. Even with this poorly matched lineup with major limitations, they should have more wins.

So I give him a D. Things do have potential to improve though, but he needs to ace the off-season for that to happen.

Man I wish I had you as a teacher. Worst 2 years in program history and the roster is far away from even being competitive, and he gets a D overall and an A for recruiting? Yikes.

 

[fan of Ray Williams]

I didn’t necessarily expect better on floor results this year but certainly expected to see improvement and reason for future hope which would include a clear identity. Last year’s hopeful sign was an organized offensive scheme, which seems like it would be directly coaching related. Not seeing that this year is shocking, disappointing, and discouraging. Better talent and some experience might help next year but still hard to be optimistic. The portal could change that, but it needs to be proven to me.

Exactly.

 

[Holy Man]

Man I wish I had you as a teacher. Worst 2 years in program history and the roster is far away from even being competitive, and he gets a D overall and an A for recruiting? Yikes.

To be fair on the scale, I think he is grading on an incomplete term. More generous than I would be but different timeline.

 

[washgopher]

FWIW - for some strange reason, I am listening to the Gopher Women's game radio feed.

MSU leading Gophers 17-7 after the 1st qtr. the Gophers made 2 of 16 FGA including 1-7 3-pt attempts.

so Gopher Men's fans........................things could be worse.

for some reasons it's still easier to watch the ladies even with the sound off

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

He probably should have. Boeheim has had a few nice runs in the NCAA tournament after barely making it, otherwise they’ve been a .500 and ~8th place team in the ACC for the last 9 years.

That’s a far cry from where they were in the Boeheim glory days.

I was going to say, that's probably a feather in Coyle's hat that he wanted to move on from Boeheim. At the time it was a "hot take" that turned out to be the right thing to do.

 

[disco]

Do you guys really want a mercenary coach who bribes disgruntled transfers in for 1-year immediate winning? And then has to do it all again the next year.

I'd rather have a moral coach with integrity and work-ethic who takes his lumps in the beginning...but slowly builds up a program that speaks for itself despite the critics.

If it doesn't work for some reason...at least I didn't advocate for sleaze or shortcuts.

I've said this before in the football forum. Big time college sports is entertainment and big business, nothing more. You do whatever it takes to be successful, or you won't be successful.

 

[Some guy]

He probably should have. Boeheim has had a few nice runs in the NCAA tournament after barely making it, otherwise they’ve been a .500 and ~8th place team in the ACC for the last 9 years.

That’s a far cry from where they were in the Boeheim glory days.

And Borheim under the table payment rumor mill on how he has gotten so many guys to Syracuse over the years

Meanwhile he is complaining about guys getting NIL

 

[Bad Gopher]

I didn’t necessarily expect better on floor results this year but certainly expected to see improvement and reason for future hope which would include a clear identity. Last year’s hopeful sign was an organized offensive scheme, which seems like it would be directly coaching related. Not seeing that this year is shocking, disappointing, and discouraging. Better talent and some experience might help next year but still hard to be optimistic. The portal could change that, but it needs to be proven to me.

I think shocking is a fair word. Bewildering, too.

 

[tjgopher]

I like Ben and think he has what I takes to be great. One of my favorite things about Ben Is the one word answers he gives on the Grimm radio show. Grimm is left out there hanging……

You seem to have a weird obsession with Ben Johnson's radio show with how often you post about it.

I listen to it most weeks and have never once heard Ben Johnson give a one word answer or leave anyone hanging. Not once. I actually think he drags his answers out a little too long sometimes.

I guess it shows you hear what you want to hear.