Chip on Gophers: Pitino never connected with MN HS and AAU coaches; first two calls should be Beilein and Musselman; can't let Marquette get Garcia

[Go Gophs]

There is a difference in sending kids to better programs and not getting along with the Gophers coach continually. Your argument about being better resulting in more wanting to stay home is also true. I’m not saying it’s even 50-50 fault, but neither side is free of fault.

I can agree with that. A good relationship and some connection would surely help. Both sides need to come together if it is true that we want out of this hole that is what this basketball program has become.

On another note, should we hire a guy like John Beilein, these club coaches will be calling him left and right trying to get their players in here...

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

Reporters fretting about the buyout two weeks ago now reporting we have the money to get the big boys.

They’re like weather people

Hey now

 

[SanDiegoGopherFan]

Agree. However, the relationship goes both ways and when one side thinks you should offer every player they believe you should it makes it hard. If they get their feelings hurt and write you off because you disagree with your assessment it's hard. Relationships go two ways.

The major part of that potential problem is communication. I would imagine as a college coach you recruit for need/position, like in football.

So if Pitino did have relationships with the AAU/HS coaches in MN, they should be aware of what he is looking for in any particular year in both a scholarship player and a walk-on.

Doesn't seem that hard.

I would imagine the bar should be set very high (this should be communicated to coaches) of what they need in a player in order to offer a scholarship.

At that point it shouldn't be that many coaches telling Pitino I have the kid you're looking for.

 

[SanDiegoGopherFan]

Could it be that the reason he didn’t get Minnesota recruits is that they/ their AAU coaches could tell Pitino was a bad coach? I’d imagine if people on this board could complain for years it was probably more apparent to people that actually play and coach at a high level.

That would not surprise me. I put down some stats in a different post about the number of B1G freshman team since the RP tenure and Pitino has never had a freshman on that team.

If I'm a highly sought after recruit, that tells me either he wont develop me or wont play me enough to warrant being on that team.

 

[#2Gopher]

Well if all these posts are spot on. Pitino is gone. I haven't a clue what goes on at the high school level as to recruiting.

 

[Cayman]

Pitino's problem with AAU/Coaches is the result of not offering McKinley Wright, and the bad blood it created with D1 Minnesota.

Pitino did offer McKinley Wright though, quite possibly before Colorado did, though I can't find a timeline on that.

I also don't like how 20/20 hindsight has made us act like "Slow play the out of state top 75 kid who is ready to commit while you wait for the in state 3 star to beat around the bush and make up his mind" is some sort of stupidly obvious decision to make, like what was implied in the original post on this thread. If you're gonna knock Pitino for taking Washington over Wright, give him credit for passing on Illikainen and nabbing Murphy in the spring.

 

[DanvilleGopher]

Well if all these posts are spot on. Pitino is gone. I haven't a clue what goes on at the high school level as to recruiting.

Even if these posts aren't spot on, he's gone!!

 

[Cayman]

That would not surprise me. I put down some stats in a different post about the number of B1G freshman team since the RP tenure and Pitino has never had a freshman on that team.

If I'm a highly sought after recruit, that tells me either he wont develop me or wont play me enough to warrant being on that team.

Amir Coffey was on the All Big Ten Freshman team for the 2016-17 season. Daniel Oturu arguably deserved the Freshman team honor in 2018-19 over Maryland's Jalen Smith; I think Oturu's stats were a little better, but Smith was a higher rated recruit, probably had better pro prospects, and played on a better team that year. Gabe Kalscheur was also a good player as freshman, probably his best year, just didn't win any awards.

 

[SanDiegoGopherFan]

Amir Coffey was on the All Big Ten Freshman team for the 2016-17 season. Daniel Oturu arguably deserved the Freshman team honor in 2018-19 over Maryland's Jalen Smith; I think Oturu's stats were a little better, but Smith was a higher rated recruit, probably had better pro prospects, and played on a better team that year. Gabe Kalscheur was also a good player as freshman, probably his best year, just didn't win any awards.

You're right, I missed that. Murphy was on there the year before too. Good catch.

 

[Gopherfan84]

I can agree with that. A good relationship and some connection would surely help. Both sides need to come together if it is true that we want out of this hole that is what this basketball program has become.

On another note, should we hire a guy like John Beilein, these club coaches will be calling him left and right trying to get their players in here...

Totally agree on having some semblance of a relationship. To Richard’s credit it seems like he had semi repaired the relationship with Pully, but it’s obvious now at the end they had no confidence in him and rightfully so.

You’re right about a guy like Beilien. My deal is coach well enough where the club programs have no power over you. I think many of the options listed here would be able to come in and have some respect from our local clubs

 

[ethomasp31]

Not saying I don't believe it ....... but man ... you're saying Garcia wanted to be a Gopher and Pitino just didn't try??

That is plain hard to swallow. No way he can get to this level and just be that incompetent, it would have to be a conscious decision?

So either part of the story is missing here, or someone is giving some revisionist history about what actually happened.

I've talked to several high school coaches about the U and Pitino over the years. Two comments to me that they made really stood. I commented to one assistant coach that it was too bad his player wasn't going to the U. He told me that Pitino's presence/style/attitude...whatever you want to call it....didn't really mesh with his player. It was an east coast attitude that kind of turned him off.

The other comment came from a coach when I asked him if the U had a shot and getting his player. He told me that of all the teams that have come to look at his player that the U by far had the least impressive coaching staff. He mentioned that even if a guy like Fran McCaffery (he mentioned his name as an example) would visit, there would be a feeling of a connection. He didn't get that from the Gopher coaching staff. Both of those comments were more than 5 years ago.

I felt over the years that Pitino became more humble and likable during his stay here. He didn't seem as arrogant and for me became likable as a person. He seems like a great dad and engaging on his radio show. I think sometimes it becomes difficult to overcome the perception of him early on.

I went to a Gopher game (Penn State) last year, and it had been about 5-6 years since i had watched the Gophers in person. It was sad to see the whole upper deck pretty much empty. I remember going to Williams Arena back in the 70's to watch Mychal Thompson. I watched several games over the years when Clem was the coach. The people who don't think the Gophers can get more of the top players in the state were never at those games. Williams Arena was the best ticket in town...and that is coming from a 15 year Viking season ticket holder. If Williams Arena can return to those days, high school players in this state will want to go play there. If it's as dead as it was last year against Penn State, we will be playing in Weakling Wednesday almost every year.

 

[Bad Gopher]

I've talked to several high school coaches about the U and Pitino over the years. Two comments to me that they made really stood. I commented to one assistant coach that it was too bad his player wasn't going to the U. He told me that Pitino's presence/style/attitude...whatever you want to call it....didn't really mesh with his player. It was an east coast attitude that kind of turned him off.

The other comment came from a coach when I asked him if the U had a shot and getting his player. He told me that of all the teams that have come to look at his player that the U by far had the least impressive coaching staff. He mentioned that even if a guy like Fran McCaffery (he mentioned his name as an example) would visit, there would be a feeling of a connection. He didn't get that from the Gopher coaching staff. Both of those comments were more than 5 years ago.

I felt over the years that Pitino became more humble and likable during his stay here. He didn't seem as arrogant and for me became likable as a person. He seems like a great dad and engaging on his radio show. I think sometimes it becomes difficult to overcome the perception of him early on.

I went to a Gopher game (Penn State) last year, and it had been about 5-6 years since i had watched the Gophers in person. It was sad to see the whole upper deck pretty much empty. I remember going to Williams Arena back in the 70's to watch Mychal Thompson. I watched several games over the years when Clem was the coach. The people who don't think the Gophers can get more of the top players in the state were never at those games. Williams Arena was the best ticket in town...and that is coming from a 15 year Viking season ticket holder. If Williams Arena can return to those days, high school players in this state will want to go play there. If it's as dead as it was last year against Penn State, we will be playing in Weakling Wednesday almost every year.

When that place is filled to the rafters, there's no better place anywhere. And it WAS filled to the rafters, with a waiting list for season tickets. These days, when I see recruits attending, I feel bad that this is what they have to judge the program and the venue by. I want to teleport them back in time to the 90s and what the game atmosphere was then and could be again. That's the potential we have to sell.

 

[ethomasp31]

When that place is filled to the rafters, there's no better place anywhere. And it WAS filled to the rafters, with a waiting list for season tickets. These days, when I see recruits attending, I feel bad that this is what they have to judge the program and the venue by. I want to teleport them back in time to the 90s and what the game atmosphere was then and could be again. That's the potential we have to sell.

That's why I say if you have a coach who can create what Clem created, many of the top Minnesota kids will want to play here. I remember when Clem got here. We were within one shot of going to the Final 4 in his 4th season. That was during a time when the Big Ten was better than it is now.

 

[Replacement Gopher]

Not saying I don't believe it ....... but man ... you're saying Garcia wanted to be a Gopher and Pitino just didn't try??

That is plain hard to swallow. No way he can get to this level and just be that incompetent, it would have to be a conscious decision?

So either part of the story is missing here, or someone is giving some revisionist history about what actually happened.

He doesn’t really care about coaching basketball. It just happens to be the family business. Even now his dad is working to get him a job.

 

[topos]

I know a gentleman who’s very in tune with the AAU scene. He’s friends with some of the program heads and they’ve said Pitino has NEVER reached out them. They didn’t have good or bad things to say about Richard because they literally don’t know him! How is that even possible!? So, for the “not every in state kid will stay home” crowd, they definitely won’t if we aren’t even trying!

Secondly, I worked briefly with a family member of one of the Minnesotans starting for WI. During this player’s recruitment I asked if the gophers had a chance. He laughed and said Pitino was the last coach to offer and gave the player 48 hours to commit. He was a pompous ass and acted like the gophers were too good for him.

I then asked about Suggs and he laughed even harder.

It doesn’t matter who coaches next. A little humility, worth ethic, and hustle will go a long way with the local players.

 

[MplsGopher]

I've talked to several high school coaches about the U and Pitino over the years. Two comments to me that they made really stood. I commented to one assistant coach that it was too bad his player wasn't going to the U. He told me that Pitino's presence/style/attitude...whatever you want to call it....didn't really mesh with his player. It was an east coast attitude that kind of turned him off.

The other comment came from a coach when I asked him if the U had a shot and getting his player. He told me that of all the teams that have come to look at his player that the U by far had the least impressive coaching staff. He mentioned that even if a guy like Fran McCaffery (he mentioned his name as an example) would visit, there would be a feeling of a connection. He didn't get that from the Gopher coaching staff. Both of those comments were more than 5 years ago.

I felt over the years that Pitino became more humble and likable during his stay here. He didn't seem as arrogant and for me became likable as a person. He seems like a great dad and engaging on his radio show. I think sometimes it becomes difficult to overcome the perception of him early on.

I went to a Gopher game (Penn State) last year, and it had been about 5-6 years since i had watched the Gophers in person. It was sad to see the whole upper deck pretty much empty. I remember going to Williams Arena back in the 70's to watch Mychal Thompson. I watched several games over the years when Clem was the coach. The people who don't think the Gophers can get more of the top players in the state were never at those games. Williams Arena was the best ticket in town...and that is coming from a 15 year Viking season ticket holder. If Williams Arena can return to those days, high school players in this state will want to go play there. If it's as dead as it was last year against Penn State, we will be playing in Weakling Wednesday almost every year.

Thanks for sharing this!

 

[MplsGopher]

I know a gentleman who’s very in tune with the AAU scene. He’s friends with some of the program heads and they’ve said Pitino has NEVER reached out them. They didn’t have good or bad things to say about Richard because they literally don’t know him! How is that even possible!? So, for the “not every in state kid will stay home” crowd, they definitely won’t if we aren’t even trying!

Secondly, I worked briefly with a family member of one of the Minnesotans starting for WI. During this player’s recruitment I asked if the gophers had a chance. He laughed and said Pitino was the last coach to offer and gave the player 48 hours to commit. He was a pompous ass and acted like the gophers were too good for him.

I then asked about Suggs and he laughed even harder.

It doesn’t matter who coaches next. A little humility, worth ethic, and hustle will go a long way with the local players.

Man, that is disappointing.

 

[Tucker32]

The major part of that potential problem is communication. I would imagine as a college coach you recruit for need/position, like in football.

So if Pitino did have relationships with the AAU/HS coaches in MN, they should be aware of what he is looking for in any particular year in both a scholarship player and a walk-on.

Doesn't seem that hard.

I would imagine the bar should be set very high (this should be communicated to coaches) of what they need in a player in order to offer a scholarship.

At that point it shouldn't be that many coaches telling Pitino I have the kid you're looking for.

I agree. And, it’s a two-way street. Your comments assume that the club coaches are thinking realistically about their kids. I wasn’t talking high school coaches, simply a couple of the high profile clubs. Not saying Pitino is innocent here either, but a couple of these individuals are not going to be easy for any coach to work with because of the ego and unrealistic expectations they bring about their players.

 

[Bad Gopher]

I agree. And, it’s a two-way street. Your comments assume that the club coaches are thinking realistically about their kids. I wasn’t talking high school coaches, simply a couple of the high profile clubs. Not saying Pitino is innocent here either, but a couple of these individuals are not going to be easy for any coach to work with because of the ego and unrealistic expectations they bring about their players.

Which of course is why this kind of job isn't easy and gets the big bucks.

Few if any of these coaches or club administrators has an axe to grind with the U. If they've been around long enough, they've seen what the program can be. It's just a matter of making the place a viable option for players to go and develop and win.

 

[Some guy]

Hey now

LOL

 

[big10guy]

No matter who the new coach is, he's going to have to get 3 or 4 transfers in here who can shoot. Because there are no pure shooters on this current squad. We cannot win when we shoot 30%.

 

[4thegophers]

For what it's worth, one of my son's best friends is a D1 (in a Mid-America level type school) assistant head coach that recruits Minnesota for his school. While not a close personal friend of Ben Johnson, they have known each other for years and still talk on a regular basis. When Ben Johnson left Minnesota to move to Xavier, I asked him why he would leave his alma mater to go to Xavier. He said that Ben would work hard to recruit area players and then couldn't get Pitino to even go out and watch them or visit them. He expected the assistants to do all the work and that he would just be used to close the deal. He implied that Pitino was a lazy recruiter when it came to the local players and placed a higher value on eastern players. He just got tired of fighting it and when the opportunity came at Xavier, he took it.

 

[Bad Gopher]

For what it's worth, one of my son's best friends is a D1 (in a Mid-America level type school) assistant head coach that recruits Minnesota for his school. While not a close personal friend of Ben Johnson, they have known each other for years and still talk on a regular basis. When Ben Johnson left Minnesota to move to Xavier, I asked him why he would leave his alma mater to go to Xavier. He said that Ben would work hard to recruit area players and then couldn't get Pitino to even go out and watch them or visit them. He expected the assistants to do all the work and that he would just be used to close the deal. He implied that Pitino was a lazy recruiter when it came to the local players and placed a higher value on eastern players. He just got tired of fighting it and when the opportunity came at Xavier, he took it.

I've always suspected this.

 

[Ewert86PC]

I'll say this. Like everything I have seen about this program under Pitino's reign, he did very little of anything. He was as distant in the program as he could be.

Pitino didn't discipline players, he hired assistants to keep them in line and when they got out of line, he fired the assistant(s), while mitigating the punishment demanded by the administration.

He also did not do more than the visible minimum to recruit players. Who wants to play for a coach who isn't the mainline artery for the program?

Strategizing? Only before games, never during games, as witnessed by the lack of second half adjustments.

Pitino was distant, or aloof, or disengaged, with coaches and clubs because they wanted substance not the Sales blather that the media equates to networking and coaching.

Pitino didn't want to be here, but he did the one thing to keep himself off the hot seat for 60% of his tenure: he sucked up to the media.