Chip: Mark Coyle, having gambled twice on Gophers basketball coaching hires, gets another shot

[BleedGopher]

Per Chip:

Regardless of how he frames it publicly, Coyle moved on from Lindsay Whalen as women's coachafter five unimpressive seasons. Men's coach Ben Johnson has finished last in the Big Ten in each of his first two seasons.

No Big Ten school was worse than Minnesota this basketball season. Six victories and 30 losses, combined, in the Big Ten.

This is an especially sad period for two programs that by Coyle's own admission have languished over the last quarter century.

People can blame coaching but this is Coyle's problem, too. His hires, his problem.

"We've got to figure it out," Coyle said. "We have everything in place. There is no reason why it can't be done here. That's the question we've got to figure out."

Lindsay Whalen's replacement. Gophers athletic director Mark Coyle must get it right

No Big Ten school was worse than Minnesota this women's and men's basketball season. Six victories and 31 losses in the Big Ten. AD Mark Coyle's job includes fixing that with the right hire.

m.startribune.com

Go Gophers!!

 

[golfing18now]

Well let's see if he prioritizes coaching pedigree and resume over "Minnesota connections". I have my doubts.

 

[Spaulding!No!]

Well let's see if he prioritizes coaching pedigree and resume over "Minnesota connections". I have my doubts.

This

 

[bleedsmaroonandgold]

Per Chip:

Regardless of how he frames it publicly, Coyle moved on from Lindsay Whalen as women's coachafter five unimpressive seasons. Men's coach Ben Johnson has finished last in the Big Ten in each of his first two seasons.

No Big Ten school was worse than Minnesota this basketball season. Six victories and 30 losses, combined, in the Big Ten.

This is an especially sad period for two programs that by Coyle's own admission have languished over the last quarter century.

People can blame coaching but this is Coyle's problem, too. His hires, his problem.

"We've got to figure it out," Coyle said. "We have everything in place. There is no reason why it can't be done here. That's the question we've got to figure out."

Lindsay Whalen's replacement. Gophers athletic director Mark Coyle must get it right

No Big Ten school was worse than Minnesota this women's and men's basketball season. Six victories and 31 losses in the Big Ten. AD Mark Coyle's job includes fixing that with the right hire.

m.startribune.com

Go Gophers!!

This sentence says it all. It is shocking that a program that has been as bad as ours for the last 25 years can find a way to have "an especially sad period" even when measured against that backdrop. I keep hearing things like "its hard to win here." In relatively recent history, we say a coach who was able to go to the NCAA tourney 3 times in 6 years and win 43% of his B1G games. That's not good, but certainly shows we don't have to be content sitting in the cellar.

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

Well let's see if he prioritizes coaching pedigree and resume over "Minnesota connections". I have my doubts.

I would imagine Coyle has almost free reign to hire the candidate he wants this go around, having checked all the boxes with the last one, having satisfied the Administrations wishes with how they wanted the search and hiring to go. It's a different climate now than when the last coach was hired.

 

[Gophers_4life]

My unsolicited, simple advice to Mr. Coyle is:

do what you did with the Fleck and Motzko hires.


Honestly, how can that be wrong?

 

[cjbfbp]

This sentence says it all. It is shocking that a program that has been as bad as ours for the last 25 years can find a way to have "an especially sad period" even when measured against that backdrop. I keep hearing things like "its hard to win here." In relatively recent history, we say a coach who was able to go to the NCAA tourney 3 times in 6 years and win 43% of his B1G games. That's not good, but certainly shows we don't have to be content sitting in the cellar.

It is "hard to win here" but I don't think many consider it impossible to win here.

What were the characteristics of that referenced coach?

1) Very experienced with a demonstrated track record of success over multiple programs;
2) Relatively expensive.

Typically, the two characteristics go hand-in-hand.

What were the characteristics of the women's basketball coach and the two most recent men's basketball coaches?

1) Little or no track record;
2) Cheap.

I guess it's possible to find a successful coach who is relatively cheap and has little or no head coaching experience but you might have to go through three or four of those before you find one who can pull it off.

 

[cjbfbp]

Well let's see if he prioritizes coaching pedigree and resume over "Minnesota connections". I have my doubts.

I'd also like to see whether some of the fans on this board will now prize coaching pedigree over Minnesota connections and the desire/ability to recruit natives. Good players come from where you find them.

 

[LesBolstad]

I'd also like to see whether some of the fans on this board will now prize coaching pedigree over Minnesota connections and the desire/ability to recruit natives. Good players come from where you find them.

99% of fans here don't care where the players come from as long as they win

 

[Bad Gopher]

Both of the last two men's hires were made in the unrealistic hope that they were prodigies who could come in and perform at a high level in this meat grinder of a conference. It was somewhat understandable with Pitino in light of his remarkable year leading FIU. With Johnson, though...

 

[cjbfbp]

99% of fans here don't care where the players come from as long as they win

I'd say the percentage definitely is lower than that. Some people seem to believe that this state is a major producer of basketball talent. It is not and more than a few of the best prospects prefer to go to more successful programs or places they simply haven't lived before. Now, when you're talking about hockey, this state really is numero uno in the USA for producing D1 talent.

 

[cjbfbp]

Both of the last two men's hires were made in the unrealistic hope that they were prodigies who could come in and perform at a high level in this meat grinder of a conference. It was somewhat understandable with Pitino in light of his remarkable year leading FIU. With Johnson, though...

Assuming the university will require some sort of track record for future coaching candidates, I hope they don't get too excited about one good year and especially not if that's the only year. Pitino showed here that he could have a good year but he never showed that he could have two consecutive good years. Florida International's current coach started off with two good years that were better than Pitino's one good year but he's had three consecutive losing seasons since those.

 

[skiumah1]

I remember hearing Pitino was Option 5 or something on the Norwood Teague list. That was not a good hiring process. But still did make more sense than Johnson and I think Johnson may have been one of the top options in Coyle's mind.

 

[CentralGopher]

I'd say the percentage definitely is lower than that. Some people seem to believe that this state is a major producer of basketball talent. It is not and more than a few of the best prospects prefer to go to more successful programs or places they simply haven't lived before. Now, when you're talking about hockey, this state really is numero uno in the USA for producing D1 talent.

I’m sure some think the borders should be closed, then there are some that think we should just get the top 2-3 players from the state, some think just get role players and maybe a top player from the state, and some don’t care as long as they win. Nobody has a clue how many times f each group there is or who is right. The right coach can probably win with any of them.

 

[short ornery norwegian]

Look, I understand that fans want to see the program succeed. But let's be realistic. We are talking about a program that has 1 Final Four appearance; 2 trips to the Elite 8; and 4 in the Sweet 16. Only 6 times has a Gopher program gone past the 1st round in the NCAA tournament. And this is a program that has won 3 conference titles since 1937.

Can the Gophers be better? Sure. But all the pieces have to line up. Coaching, Talent, administrative support, facilities - and in today's climate, NIL.

Again, this program can be better. But simply hiring a different coach is not going to change everything overnight.

 

[Spaulding!No!]

Look, I understand that fans want to see the program succeed. But let's be realistic. We are talking about a program that has 1 Final Four appearance; 2 trips to the Elite 8; and 4 in the Sweet 16. Only 6 times has a Gopher program gone past the 1st round in the NCAA tournament. And this is a program that has won 3 conference titles since 1937.

Can the Gophers be better? Sure. But all the pieces have to line up. Coaching, Talent, administrative support, facilities - and in today's climate, NIL.

Again, this program can be better. But simply hiring a different coach is not going to change everything overnight.

Ummmm. No one asked for overnight and the right thing for the program is a new coach.

 

[GopherBlood777]

I'd also like to see whether some of the fans on this board will now prize coaching pedigree over Minnesota connections and the desire/ability to recruit natives. Good players come from where you find them.

Literally the biggest complaint of the Johnson hire was that they prioritized "one of us" over someone that could coach. They even passed on multiple coaches with local ties that actually have a track record coaching (dutcher/smith/medved/musselman). What board have you been reading the last 2 years?

 

[cjbfbp]

Literally the biggest complaint of the Johnson hire was that they prioritized "one of us" over someone that could coach. They even passed on multiple coaches with local ties that actually have a track record coaching (dutcher/smith/medved/musselman). What board have you been reading the last 2 years?

That claim is not at all difficult to reconcile with mine. Different people complain about different things. I didn't say this board was monolithic. I suspect that you're also smart enough not to claim that, right?

I've been on this board for almost a decade now. I know the hiring of Ben Johnson was heavily criticized but I also know that one of the primary criticisms of Pitino was that he couldn't get the good in-state players and he didn't place enough priority to local networking. There were plenty of reasons to criticize the hiring of Johnson and perhaps those overshadowed his seeming willingness to work harder locally. There were also plenty of reasons to criticize Pitino's coaching but I wouldn't say that failing to get enough local players should be among the highest on the list.

 

[Holy Man]

I remember hearing Pitino was Option 5 or something on the Norwood Teague list. That was not a good hiring process. But still did make more sense than Johnson and I think Johnson may have been one of the top options in Coyle's mind.

The coaching fraternity boycotted the job for what Teague did to Tubby. That hurt the search more than people typically acknowledge. That’s why the ended up at fifth choice.

 

[GopherBlood777]

That claim is not at all difficult to reconcile with mine. Different people complain about different things. I didn't say this board was monolithic. I suspect that you're also smart enough not to claim that, right?

I've been on this board for almost a decade now. I know the hiring of Ben Johnson was heavily criticized but I also know that one of the primary criticisms of Pitino was that he couldn't get the good in-state players and he didn't place enough priority to local networking. There were plenty of reasons to criticize the hiring of Johnson and perhaps those overshadowed his seeming willingness to work harder locally. There were also plenty of reasons to criticize Pitino's coaching but I wouldn't say that failing to get enough local players should be among the highest on the list.

Not monolithic, but 95% is fair if you revisit the Ben Johnson hired as coach thread. Pitino was only criticized for local recruiting because he simultaneously lacked real on court success. If he won at a higher rate very few would have cared where the roster came from. If Johnson doesn't start winning at a higher rate, most will not care how many local recruits he signed.

 

[golfing18now]

Literally the biggest complaint of the Johnson hire was that they prioritized "one of us" over someone that could coach. They even passed on multiple coaches with local ties that actually have a track record coaching (dutcher/smith/medved/musselman). What board have you been reading the last 2 years?

I disagree here. For one, none of the other coaches met the other criteria two years ago so none of them was seriously considered. Secondly, the obsession with Minnesota kids on here is non-stop. "We need to close the border" is always cited as the primary reason that Pitino wasn't successful here despite the fact he recruited a number of Minnesota kids successfully. "The AAU coaches aren't delivering enough Minnesota talent" as if the kids don't have a mind of their own. Even the story about Asuma this week was cited as "the type of recruit that Ben Johnson was hired to recruit" despite the fact that Big Ten teams are loaded with recruits of his stature/ranking/interest level. That isn't a shot at him. It's just evidence of the mindset of so many in this area. We need to be a little less provincial in our hiring practices and our recruiting, in my view. This isn't hockey.

 

[golfing18now]

99% of fans here don't care where the players come from as long as they win

That is true when they are winning, but it often is cited as the reason they are not.

 

[GopherBlood777]

I disagree here. For one, none of the other coaches met the other criteria two years ago so none of them was seriously considered. Secondly, the obsession with Minnesota kids on here is non-stop. "We need to close the border" is always cited as the primary reason that Pitino wasn't successful here despite the fact he recruited a number of Minnesota kids successfully. "The AAU coaches aren't delivering enough Minnesota talent" as if the kids don't have a mind of their own. Even the story about Asuma this week was cited as "the type of recruit that Ben Johnson was hired to recruit" despite the fact that Big Ten teams are loaded with recruits of his stature/ranking/interest level. That isn't a shot at him. It's just evidence of the mindset of so many in this area. We need to be a little less provincial in our hiring practices and our recruiting, in my view. This isn't hockey.

I don't really think we disagree at all lol if we win, no one will care where the coaches or players come from. If we lose, it's just a convenient excuse, albeit a very popular one that is for sure.

 

[Bad Gopher]

The coaching fraternity boycotted the job for what Teague did to Tubby. That hurt the search more than people typically acknowledge. That’s why the ended up at fifth choice.

Still could have had Flip, which was still a major blunder.

 

[Holy Man]

Still could have had Flip, which was still a major blunder.

Flip ran away when he sniffed out Teague as a creep.

 

[howeda7]

My unsolicited, simple advice to Mr. Coyle is:

do what you did with the Fleck and Motzko hires.


Honestly, how can that be wrong?

If he'd hired Craig Smith that would be the equivalent. Aaron Johnston would be on the women's side. It's only complicated if you make it so.

 

[Gopherfan84]

Flip ran away when he sniffed out Teague as a creep.

Glen Taylor also let him know there was going to be an opening with the Wolves too.

 

[PMWinSTP]

Ummmm. No one asked for overnight and the right thing for the program is a new coach.

People wanted Ben fired like six games into his second season. If Coyle decides at some point to move on from Johnson, he definitely will have to take a flyer on his next hire as well. He will not have the pick of the lot...of any lot for that matter.

 

[howeda7]

People wanted Ben fired like six games into his second season. If Coyle decides at some point to move on from Johnson, he definitely will have to take a flyer on his next hire as well. He will not have the pick of the lot...of any lot for that matter.

Don't fire the current coach even though we're one of the five worst power 6 teams because we can't do any better?

 

[PMWinSTP]

Don't fire the current coach even though we're one of the five worst power 6 teams because we can't do any better?

Is that rhetorical?