CFP or Rose Bowl?

Where would you like to see the 2019 Gophers end up?

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If the question were: "If the Gophers are 12-0 and play Ohio State in the B1G Championship, will you root for them to win?" would 38% of you vote "No."?
 


Cayman said:
I believe back in the 70’s or something, there were teams that turned down the NCAA Tournament to go to the NIT because it had a level of prestige then that it no longer has. The Rose Bowl used to be the biggest most prestigious game that the best teams played in, but it no longer is. <b>Fans who want to see the team have the best season possible are probably a little puzzled by the idea that others would prefer we drop a game or two and likely fail to win the Big Ten </b>all so that we can participate in the grand tradition of the Rose Bowl instead of competing to be the best team in the country in the CFP.

I understand the appeal of the Rose Bowl and why it’s a big deal to long time fans, but the best possible season the Gophers have means going to the playoff instead of the Rose Bowl. <b>To some of us it’s like asking if you’d rather finish 1st or 6th, and over a third of our fans would prefer to finish 6th.<b>
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First off, your summary of The Rose Bowl is just your opinion. It is still very prestigious in my mind. To over a third of GH fans too.

As to the bolded and Howeda’s post below- you are both extrapolating. No one is rooting for us to lose. I will root for us to win every game and if we do and go to the CFP I will be ecstatic, not disappointed. The question was simply which game would I rather the Gophers play in. Rose Bowl. Hands down. Not factoring in records, losses, committees, etc. The Rose Bowl I will go to and have a dream vacation. The CFP I would watch at home. The Rose Bowl has been the dream for me for decades and that isn’t going to change until it happens. Over one third of GH would prefer the Rose Bowl because we don’t agree with your opinion of it.

howeda7 said:
If the question were: "If the Gophers are 12-0 and play Ohio State in the B1G Championship, will you root for them to win?" would 38% of you vote "No."?
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I’d be willing to bet 100% of those 38% would Vote “Yes”. Of course. Silly to ask.



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howeda7 said:
If the question were: "If the Gophers are 12-0 and play Ohio State in the B1G Championship, will you root for them to win?" would 38% of you vote "No."?
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Nobody straw mans like Howie.


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howeda7 said:
If the question were: "If the Gophers are 12-0 and play Ohio State in the B1G Championship, will you root for them to win?" would 38% of you vote "No."?
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Only if they apologize for the ticket price increase.

/s
 



Rose Bowl

Spoofin said:
First off, your summary of The Rose Bowl is just your opinion. It is still very prestigious in my mind. To over a third of GH fans too.

As to the bolded and Howeda’s post below- you are both extrapolating. No one is rooting for us to lose. I will root for us to win every game and if we do and go to the CFP I will be ecstatic, not disappointed. The question was simply which game would I rather the Gophers play in. Rose Bowl. Hands down. Not factoring in records, losses, committees, etc. The Rose Bowl I will go to and have a dream vacation. The CFP I would watch at home. The Rose Bowl has been the dream for me for decades and that isn’t going to change until it happens. Over one third of GH would prefer the Rose Bowl because we don’t agree with your opinion of it.



I’d be willing to bet 100% of those 38% would Vote “Yes”. Of course. Silly to ask.



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Just because I voted for the Rose Bowl, does not mean I'd root against the Gophers in the BIG10 Title Game. I want them to win as many games as possible. After all is said and done, the Rose Bowl has more appeal to me, as a long-time fan. I also think that IF we run the table and go undefeated, we STILL don't end up in the top 4 of the BCS, and go to the Rose Bowl anyway.
 

go4rob said:
Just because I voted for the Rose Bowl, does not mean I'd root against the Gophers in the BIG10 Title Game. I want them to win as many games as possible. After all is said and done, the Rose Bowl has more appeal to me, as a long-time fan.
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Yes. We agree 100%.


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Spoofin said:
Yes. We agree 100%.
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You would rather that the Gophers play in the Rose Bowl than the College Football Playoff. This means that you would prefer the Gophers lose at least one game. This is not arguable. It is funny, though, how you refuse to acknowledge it.
 



dpodoll68 said:
You would rather that the Gophers play in the Rose Bowl than the College Football Playoff. This means that you would prefer the Gophers lose at least one game. This is not arguable. It is funny, though, how you refuse to acknowledge it.
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Well, if you are going to respond to my posts, yet not read them, then I guess we can’t converse on this topic. Heck, you don’t have to read my posts - others have said the same thing as me. Sucks when folks don’t see things the same way as you, huh DPO?


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Rose Bowl, has sentimental value to it for me. My Dad always wanted to see the Gophers play there, and he never got to. My wife and I are gonna be putting money aside in case we get there this year.


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Spoofin said:
Well, if you are going to respond to my posts, yet not read them, then I guess we can’t converse on this topic. Heck, you don’t have to read my posts - others have said the same thing as me. Sucks when folks don’t see things the same way as you, huh DPO?
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I read your posts. You don't have to have the same opinion as me, but I will most definitely call you out when your opinion is stupid. Wanting the Gophers to go to the Rose Bowl is great. Preferring it to the CFP is stupid. It means that you would prefer the Gophers to have a worse season. You and the rest of the 38% are either too stupid to realize that or unwilling to admit it - take your pick. With a few exceptions, I don't think you're stupid, so for the most part it's that you're unwilling to admit it - because doing so would mean admitting that you would prefer the Gophers lose.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Wanting the Gophers to go to the Rose Bowl is great. Preferring it to the CFP is stupid. It means that you would prefer the Gophers to have a worse season.
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How dare you not prefer the Gophers to win the National Championship!! How dare you! How can you disrespect our players and coaches like that?? What a pathetic fan you are. You should be forced to turn over your season tickets and be barred from the stadium!

:rolleyes:

Fake argument is fake.
 



Here is a valid, logical, non-trolling hypothetical scenario that should be discussed in place of this fake, trolling hypothetical.

Hypothetical scenario:
Gophers win the West at 11-1 (extremely unlikely we'll go undefeated, to the point where admonishing someone for not pretending to acknowledge it as reasonable, is trolling), and are ranked by the CFP committee in the top 10 but outside the top 4 (say something like #5-6). Ohio State wins the East at 12-0, and are ranked by the CFP committee in the top 4 (say #2). Let's assume that the Gophers beat Ohio State in the conf championship game, by a close score (less than 1 TD). There are two equally plausible scenarios that the CFP committee could do: 1) they could rank the Gophers in the top 4 and Ohio State outside the top 4, or 2) they could decide that since the conf champ game was basically a coin flip, OSU played a more difficult schedule, and they think OSU is a slightly better team, they still rank OSU in the top 4 and the Gophers outside the top 4. In possibility 1, the Gophers get the #4 seed and play the #1 seed (winner of LSU/Alabama) and lose the semi-final something like 38-0. In possibility 2, the Gophers get the #5/6 ranking, go to the Rose Bowl to play a team like Utah (say 1-loss Oregon makes it in the CFP), and wins the game 24-17 or so. Neither scenario requires the Gophers to lose any "extra games". Neither scenario requires you to "prefer the Gophers have a worse season". The season is exactly the same, from the Gophers standpoint, in both. There was nothing more they could've done, in either case. It was simply a decision by the selection committee, which was entirely out of their hands.

So, which is a preferable way to end the season?


My vote: #2 all day, every day, twice on Sunday.

For folks that prefer #1, fine. That is a valid opinion. I'm not going to tell you that your opinion is wrong, like some trolls here.
 
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dpodoll68 said:
I read your posts. You don't have to have the same opinion as me, but I will most definitely call you out when your opinion is stupid. Wanting the Gophers to go to the Rose Bowl is great. Preferring it to the CFP is stupid. It means that you would prefer the Gophers to have a worse season. You and the rest of the 38% are either too stupid to realize that or unwilling to admit it - take your pick. With a few exceptions, I don't think you're stupid, so for the most part it's that you're unwilling to admit it - because doing so would mean admitting that you would prefer the Gophers lose.
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How about I say it this way.... If the Gophers are borderline CFP and Rose Bowl after the B1G Championship Game (regardless of what their record is) and we are waiting to see where the committee places them - I will be hoping it is the Rose Bowl and not the CFP. I’m not rooting for them to lose anything - I would just rather they get placed in the Rose Bowl than the CFP (regardless of what their record is when that decision is made).


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go4rob said:
Just because I voted for the Rose Bowl, does not mean I'd root against the Gophers in the BIG10 Title Game. I want them to win as many games as possible. After all is said and done, the Rose Bowl has more appeal to me, as a long-time fan. I also think that IF we run the table and go undefeated, we STILL don't end up in the top 4 of the BCS, and go to the Rose Bowl anyway.
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There's almost zero chance of that happening, IMO. The only way it could is if there are 5 undefeated teams. They're not going to shut out a 13-0 B1G champion for a second SEC or Big 12 team. The only remote possibility would be if we beat PSU and PSU beats OSU. In that case, it's possible our only "good" wins would be beating PSU twice, depending on how Iowa and Wisconsin finish out.
 
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Spoofin said:
How about I say it this way.... If the Gophers are borderline CFP and Rose Bowl after the B1G Championship Game (regardless of what their record is) and we are waiting to see where the committee places them - I will be hoping it is the Rose Bowl and not the CFP. I’m not rooting for them to lose anything - I would just rather they get placed in the Rose Bowl than the CFP (regardless of what their record is when that decision is made).


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I don't think there's any borderline CFP case for the Gophers. If they go 13-0, they're in. If they go 12-1, they have 0 chance.
 

howeda7 said:
I don't think there's any borderline CFP case for the Gophers. If they go 13-0, they're in. If they go 12-1, they have 0 chance.
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Meaning that if they go 12-1, they lost the B1G Championship and IMHO that means they have a 99.9% chance of going to the Rose Bowl. Not a bad consolation prize...
 

Maverick said:
Meaning that if they go 12-1, they lost the B1G Championship and IMHO that means they have a 99.9% chance of going to the Rose Bowl. Not a bad consolation prize...
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Right. They could obviously go 11-1 and still lose to OSU, but then not only would the CFP be out, but the Rose Bowl becomes iffy at best. Which is why the 38% are essentially rooting for your scenario to play out this way.

If we lose to PSU, the Rose Bowl becomes unlikely, IMO. PSU is not likely to lose any other game except OSU (their other games are Rutgers and Indiana). They will therefore become the likely Rose Bowl pick at 11-1, even if we are 11-2. They will be ranked higher and have beaten us head to head.
 
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I'd like to see Minnesota win out and get excluded from the CFP. I get my dream trip to Pasadena, and the Gophers would become the driving force behind expanding the playoff to at least eight teams, thus becoming America's team.
 

howeda7 said:
Right. They could obviously go 11-1 and still lose to OSU, but then not only would the CFP be out, but the Rose Bowl becomes iffy at best. Which is why the 38% are essentially rooting for your scenario to play out this way.
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Nope, I gave a logical, valid scenario where we win the conf championship and are still at the mercy of the CFP selection committee.

That breaks the OP hypothesis, thus disproving it.
 

And I also broke the hypothesis of “if you’re not rooting for the Gophers to go 13-0, you’re a bad fan”.

So that is disproven.


It’ll be ignored of course, because dpo and that cohort can’t think of a good counter-argument.
 

Jike Spingleton said:
I'd like to see Minnesota win out and get excluded from the CFP. I get my dream trip to Pasadena, and the Gophers would become the driving force behind expanding the playoff to at least eight teams, thus becoming America's team.
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Boom.

There you go. They have no response to that. It breaks the thread.


I agree. I prefer and am rooting for the Gophers to go 13-0 and not be ranked top 4 by the committee.

Disproves the thread.
 

MnplsGopher said:
Nope, I gave a logical, valid scenario where we win the conf championship and are still at the mercy of the CFP selection committee.

That breaks the OP hypothesis, thus disproving it.
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No you didn't. The CFP will never take a 1 loss Gopher team over a 1 loss LSU/PSU etc.
 

howeda7 said:
Right. They could obviously go 11-1 and still lose to OSU, but then not only would the CFP be out, but the Rose Bowl becomes iffy at best. Which is why the 38% are essentially rooting for your scenario to play out this way.

If we lose to PSU, the Rose Bowl becomes unlikely, IMO. PSU is not likely to lose any other game except OSU (their other games are Rutgers and Indiana). They will therefore become the likely Rose Bowl pick at 11-1, even if we are 11-2. They will be ranked higher and have beaten us head to head.
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Not technically correct.

This is based on your misunderstanding of the system.
 

MnplsGopher said:
Boom.

There you go. They have no response to that. It breaks the thread.


I agree. I prefer and am rooting for the Gophers to go 13-0 and not be ranked top 4 by the committee.

Disproves the thread.
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Preferring to go to the Rose Bowl doesn't make you " bad fan", it's just an odd choice to want your team to do well but not too well.
 

howeda7 said:
No you didn't. The CFP will never take a 1 loss Gopher team over a 1 loss LSU/PSU etc.
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Perfectly reasonable because they’d be Big Ten champs and just defeated a top 4 team. CFP committee is on record saying conf champs get extra weight.

At minimum it’s a non-zero probability, you can’t prove otherwise.

Thus it’s valid, thus it’s a valid way to break the thread argument.
 
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howeda7 said:
Preferring to go to the Rose Bowl doesn't make you " bad fan", it's just an odd choice to want your team to do well but not too well.
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This is the fundamental flaw.

Two exactly equal seasons, exactly equal W-L, which are both equally likely to be CFP or non-CFP. Thus, neither of those outcomes are “more well” than the other.

Then, preferring the the CFP isn’t non-odd and doesn’t make you a “good fan”.
 

MnplsGopher said:
This is the fundamental flaw.

Two exactly equal seasons, exactly equal W-L, which are both equally likely to be CFP or non-CFP. Thus, neither of those outcomes are “more well” than the other.

Then, preferring the the CFP isn’t non-odd and doesn’t make you a “good fan”.
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Even in that scenario you're rooting for the CFP to screw you. An odd choice.
 

MnplsGopher said:
Perfectly reasonable because they’d be Big Ten champs and just defeated a top 4 team. CFP committee is on record saying conf champs get extra weight.

At minimum it’s a non-zero probability, you can’t prove otherwise.

Thus it’s valid, thus it’s a valid way to break the thread argument.
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Non-zero but not by much. There's a better chance they get left out at 13-0 than make it at 12-1.
 

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