BTN @ Gophers scrimmage

Plinnius

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Crap. Meant to embed, not just post the links.

EDIT: Fixed.
 

The more things change the more they stay the same.

Insert "new OC will take time" and "saving playbook for later" replies below.


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Nice to hear that the DL looked solid.
 

BTN will air on Monday BTN Live.


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The more things change the more they stay the same.

Insert "new OC will take time" and "saving playbook for later" replies below.


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Time to cancel season and fold football team...Spoofin isn't happy.
 

They are just saving the playbook for later. ; )

Eh, was hoping our run game would improve a bit more. That said, I do think our d line has improved from years past, so blocking those guys this year is probably a bit tougher for our O line.
 

It's a double edged sword, one side of the ball is going to beat the other side of the ball and hence, the offense sucks because the defense played better.
 

I see the rationalizing has begun. Carry on...


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Great. Every game is going to be a 0-0 tie. Boring!
 

Based solely own what little I saw of ULL (a single game on YouTube from 2014), so take with a huge grain of salt, as Claeys has stated the offense will look similar with some different wrinkles. Less two TE, more 3-4 WR spread, heavy play action pass, a little pistol formation here and there, misdirection, with heavy QB run. The QB has to be a threat to run to make it go full throttle and I suspect the offense will work better in future years, assuming one of the young guys has it together upstairs and develops.

Johnson looks like a great teacher, and Bart looks great and seems to have the line developing. That alone should make us better as time goes on.

Even if we can eek out another 3 pts/ game and the defense recovers to its former self we should win a few games we wouldn't have with the old staff. Maybe many more if everything hums. Maybe we will have 2 minute offense. Maybe we won't blow timeouts left and right due to too many cooks in the kitchen.
 

This is a team with new OC and O Line coach. 2 weeks practice is no reason to panic. If we beat Ore St by 3 points....then panic. If we beat them soundly, wait another week before you panic. Repeat as necessary.
 

I agree with Spoofin' - I don't see too much difference with our team this season. Anything over 6 wins is a success (which is the case every year for this program). We are at a disadvantage compared to other teams...we have a crappy fan base that doesn't support the team. Another thread predicted 20K for our opener...if that is even close to being true, we don't deserve any better than the last 3 years (2013 & 2014 being bonus, amazing seasons). Seriously, if you choose to hang out with the uneducated, fat people at the State Fair over supporting your top-notch research institution you really have no place in this community. Minneapolis is for winners - the rest will be weeded out eventually.
 



I agree with Spoofin' - I don't see too much difference with our team this season. Anything over 6 wins is a success (which is the case every year for this program). We are at a disadvantage compared to other teams...we have a crappy fan base that doesn't support the team. Another thread predicted 20K for our opener...if that is even close to being true, we don't deserve any better than the last 3 years (2013 & 2014 being bonus, amazing seasons). Seriously, if you choose to hang out with the uneducated, fat people at the State Fair over supporting your top-notch research institution you really have no place in this community. Minneapolis is for winners - the rest will be weeded out eventually.

Couldn'thave said it better. Forgot to include the fans?? who would rather watch the "queens" play an exhibition game.
 

I agree with Spoofin' - I don't see too much difference with our team this season. Anything over 6 wins is a success (which is the case every year for this program). We are at a disadvantage compared to other teams...we have a crappy fan base that doesn't support the team. Another thread predicted 20K for our opener...if that is even close to being true, we don't deserve any better than the last 3 years (2013 & 2014 being bonus, amazing seasons). Seriously, if you choose to hang out with the uneducated, fat people at the State Fair over supporting your top-notch research institution you really have no place in this community. Minneapolis is for winners - the rest will be weeded out eventually.

I don't support this team because of research. That's a bizarre take.
 

This is a team with new OC and O Line coach. 2 weeks practice is no reason to panic. If we beat Ore St by 3 points....then panic. If we beat them soundly, wait another week before you panic. Repeat as necessary.

I'm fully convinced a 3 point eke it out victory is what is going to happen.
 


I'm fully convinced a 3 point eke it out victory is what is going to happen.

Ok, the Beavers had a horrendous record against incredible teams (Stanford, UCLA, Arizona, Washington, Utah, Oregon etc...)... they're not as bad as everyone thinks. I would love nothing more than to see the Gophers crush Oregon State, but we need to keep our heads on our shoulders first. This will not be a cake walk. I want to see a win better than by 3 but we cannot assume any victory.
 

What I learned on the BTN coverage. MN returns the most All Conference players (8) in the West and second to Michigan (13).

How much did the three heads of the offense with Kill, Limegrover, and QB guy hold this offense back? They seemed to coach to not make mistakes and had no trust in the players. Hell the passing game and running game didn't event meet together. The QB's were given one automatic play to check to if the called play wasn't going to work. Johnson will coach the QB's to make calls as the field leader. They will be able to call the best audible they have learned through practice and reps. Johnson's leadership should show game one in my opinion. This should lead to better transition to hurry up offense, two minute offense, and cutting down on wasted time-outs.
 

Ok, the Beavers had a horrendous record against incredible teams (Stanford, UCLA, Arizona, Washington, Utah, Oregon etc...)... they're not as bad as everyone thinks. I would love nothing more than to see the Gophers crush Oregon State, but we need to keep our heads on our shoulders first. This will not be a cake walk. I want to see a win better than by 3 but we cannot assume any victory.

I agree with something Kill said a while back. it was something like: We're not good enough to look past anyone, we're not that kinda team yet.
 


I don't support this team because of research. That's a bizarre take.

Did anyone see the scrimmage on BTN on Monday? I was out of the house and missed it. Report ----- thanks




Go Gophers
 


Did anyone notice Mitch's response about last year's play calling around run plays? It sounded like he was told to just blindly hand off the ball on a called run play and not adjust to the defense at all. That would explain Kent State, I guess.

http://video.btn.com/mitch-leidner-on-new-gopher-offense

Sounds like it but gotta be careful about that stuff too. Not a lot of college QBs have full freedom to change up things every (he used that word) play... most can't and can be a liability doing that.


We'll see how much freedom he gets.
 

Did anyone notice Mitch's response about last year's play calling around run plays? It sounded like he was told to just blindly hand off the ball on a called run play and not adjust to the defense at all. That would explain Kent State, I guess.

http://video.btn.com/mitch-leidner-on-new-gopher-offense

I found that comment very interesting. I was picturing all the effort opposing teams put (& wasted) into disguising their defense and it made me laugh.


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I found the BTN coverage to be cursory at best.
 



What I learned on the BTN coverage. MN returns the most All Conference players (8) in the West and second to Michigan (13).

How much did the three heads of the offense with Kill, Limegrover, and QB guy hold this offense back? They seemed to coach to not make mistakes and had no trust in the players. Hell the passing game and running game didn't event meet together. The QB's were given one automatic play to check to if the called play wasn't going to work. Johnson will coach the QB's to make calls as the field leader. They will be able to call the best audible they have learned through practice and reps. Johnson's leadership should show game one in my opinion. This should lead to better transition to hurry up offense, two minute offense, and cutting down on wasted time-outs.

There was some passing talk of this over the years. You reminded me of an article I read so I searched for it. It discusses the philosophy of conservative coaches versus gunslinging, gambling coaches. It is archived so I can't link directly to it, therefore I present it in its entirety. From Mr. Chris Brown, many of you have probably read him before.

http://smartfootball.blogspot.com/2009_02_01_archive.html

Conservative and risky football strategies (and kurtosis)

Brian from Advanced NFL stats recently posited that some NFL teams (namely, the Washington Redskins under Jim Zorn) might have been throwing too few interceptions. This was because the lack of interceptions was a symptom of playing too conservatively, and therefore costing the Redskins games.

Implicit in Brian's thoughtful article are a couple of assumptions that I want to unpack, because radically different strategies might be appropriate depending on the level of football.

The first assumption is that a lack of passing (or passing aggressively) costs the offense points. This is undoubtedly correct: on average, passes garner more yards per play than runs, and an equilibrium playcalling strategy will seek to maximize the returns for each play (whether in terms of yards, first downs, or points).
The second assumption appears to be that maximizing yards and points is the optimal strategy for an offense. Hence, the lack of interceptions means that the team is leaving points on the board, thus costing it games. This is the assumption I want to address in slightly more detail.
Is it always "optimal" to set your strategy to maximize points scored?

In the NFL -- which is what Brian focuses on -- this is likely true and the assumption holds. NFL teams are almost all competitive with each other, and even the worst teams can beat the best in a given game. So any reduction in expected points is likely to hurt a team's chances of winning because they need to maximize that out to get wins.

But is that true in college? Or in high school? Think about when Florida plays the Citadel. The Gators have a massive talent advantage compared with the Bulldogs. As a result, what is the only way they can lose? You guessed it: by blowing it. They can really only lose if they go out and throw lots of interceptions, gamble on defense and give up unnecessary big plays, or just stink it up.

A fan or some uninitiated coach might see this as a lack of effort, but another view might be that Florida used an unnecessarily risky gameplan that cost them a victory. And since we know that they would win almost every time, what did they gain by being more aggressive? Even if they gained in expected points, this is something like the difference between a forty-point and sixty-point victory, which ought to be irrelevant. (I leave aside BCS calculation questions, which very well might make it worth it to increase the risk of loss to get a bigger chance of a blowout victory.)

The upshot then is that, for the storied programs with large talent advantages, there is seemingly more downside than upside to being very aggressive, either on offense or defense. While it might increase the risk of blowing the opponent out, it also increases the risk of stumbling.

The flipside: the underdog

It's a well-worn belief that underdogs -- i.e. the kind of severely outmatched opponent that cannot win without some good luck -- must employ some risky strategies to succeed. This has long been believed but now we have a reason, though it also teaches us that there is a price to this bargain. The underdog absolutely must take the riskier strategy, whether by throwing more and more aggressively, by onside kicking, or doing flea-flickers and trick plays. They have to get lucky. In the process, however, they also increase the chance that they will get blown out, possibly quite badly. But isn't that worth the price of a shot at winning? Florida might pick off the pass and run it back for a touchdown; they might sack the quarterback and make him fumble; they might blow up the double-reverse pass. If so, then things look grim. But what if they didn't? And if the team didn't do those things, how can it beat them by being conservative? By waiting for Florida to make mistakes?

Get technical
Let's take a quick step back and talk about what is happening from a probability standpoint. What does a more aggressive (and thus more risky) strategy do to our expected outcomes? Hopefully everyone is familiar with the bell-curve, which is a graphic way of depicting the range of possible outcomes based on the probability of their occurrence. The normal distribution is the most common, and it assumes that outcomes on the left and right are as likely as the average outcome. Here, let's assume this is the curve for an offense that can be expected to score around 28 points a game.

image.jpg


Now, let's say they decide to ramp it up. They want to score more points, but this is a riskier strategy, and therefore the range of outcomes will vary more wildly. Below is the new curve, which has moved to the right (to reflect the greater expected points) but is also flatter -- a measure of kurtosis -- which makes the "tails," or ends of the curve "fatter."

(Remember, the height of the curve is the probability of the event happening. Although with the moved curve the whole offense now is expected to score more points, it is now less bunched around the middle because the strategy employed is riskier and hence has more variance or variety.)

image.jpg


What does this tell us? It really just reaffirms what we'd already guess (and assumes that we know what strategies are both riskier and more rewarding, which is an assumption but generally involves passing more). Our offense now: (a) averages more points, (b) has an increased chance of scoring in the forties and blowing out the opponent than before (represented by the shaded green area), but (c) has an increased chance of blowing it and scoring fewer points than our more conservative -- and less variant -- strategy from before. Hence, you might maximize your points but you might actually increase your chance of losing in the process.
Now, remember I'm making assumptions about the nature of the curve. There's also a probability phenomenon known as skewness, which might mean that the improved strategy actually will rarely ever incur a bad game and all the variance will be good.

But the reason I took this mathematical approach to this is that this is really the lesson of the financial crisis as applied to these Wall Street gurus, imported to football: you can "improve" your strategy, you can increase your expected gain, you can increase your chance of blowout wins, but in the process you might be sowing the seeds of your own unlikely, but catastrophic demise. Sort of Black Swans for football.

Spurrier and keeping it close


So in the NFL, where teams are almost all competitive (save, maybe the Detroit Lions), it's likely the best strategy to simply maximize expected points and to go from there. But in other levels, with talent disparities of all sorts, it is trickier, as we have seen.

In the 1990s, Steve Spurrier's Florida Gators were undoubtedly some of the most talented teams of the decade. They were also some of the most aggressive. As a result, they absolutely destroyed some teams. Of course there were the seventy-point blowouts of Kentucky, but what about when they scored more than sixty against Phil Fulmer's Tennessee Volunteers? Yet, Spurrier never once went undefeated with the Gators: his teams always seemed to drop a game or two that maybe they shouldn't have. And those losses almost always had the same profile -- too many interceptions, couldn't run the ball at all, and too many big plays given up on defense. I can't believe I'm inclined to say this, but maybe Spurrier should have been more conservative? He might not have won as many games by sixty or seventy, but maybe they would have gone undefeated and won more than one title?

On the flipside, almost every week of the season I see teams go to Southern Cal, LSU, or Ohio State, and pretty much give up all hope of winning in the name of "keeping it close and winning it in the fourth quarter." As outlined above, this might be the worst strategy against such teams. They have little chance of winning on the merits, so what they need to do is flatten the tails and increase the chance for a shocker: take risks, and hope their coin flips go in their favor. Maybe they won't. Maybe they get blown out. But not taking those chances is a surefire way to set their low chance of winning in stone.

Yet, much like with David Romer's paper where he observed that NFL coaches probably don't go for it on fourth down enough, there are external and likely irrelevant reasons that deter coaches from employing a true "risky-underdog" strategy: the risk that the coach will get fired. I am advocating here that underdogs go for it and increase the calculated risk they take on. (Keep in mind that you can go overboard on this. Chucking the ball forty yards downfield every play, while risky, would not increase your scoring or even chance of winning because you'd become predictible and downright silly. It's about calculated risk.)

But there are real costs -- at least for the coach -- of getting blown out. And make no mistake, the bargain for a greater chance of winning includes the greater chance of getting thrashed. Maybe this should be irrelevant -- a win is a win and a loss is a loss. But a blowout loss has collateral effects, even if they are purely psychological and emotional. You can lose recruits, you can lose donations, and you can lose your job. Look at Mike Shanahan with the Broncos. He was on the hotseat, but he lost his job primarily because Denver got blown out in their final game. I don't necessarily think that was because his team took on increased risk, but people do not tolerate ugly defeats, rational or not.

Similarly, there might be real gains for an underdog to just "keep it close" with a big boy without ever having a real chance of winning. People discount moral victories, but if such and such team can "keep it close" with USC, then they get all kinds of accolades and possibly even confidence going into the following weeks. But if they employed the risky-underdog strategy, then they might gain a slight marginal increase for a victory, with a steeper increase in the chance of getting buzzsawed right off the field (remember skewness).

So, from the perspective of being purely focused on winning football games, I think the implications of the risky/conservative strategy dynamic in the context of teams with wide talent disparities has some pretty dramatic implications. But in the real world, there's lots of other factors, including the felt need by the coach to protect his own skin. Yet, he might be costing his team a chance at victory.

Posted by Chris at 2/18/2009 04:39:00 PM 14 comments Links to this post
Labels: probabilities, stats, strategy
 




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