Brian Kelly

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Too Long in the Wasteland

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http://college-football.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/24156338/25614599

I'm not sure if this falls under "Schadenfreude". Or, when it comes to nd, if its just old-fashioned hatred. I like the crack on message boards. I wonder if AD's ever peruse them to get the pulse of the fans. More likely they know 90% of the people on there are crackpots. And the AD is typically more worried about what the 100 top boosters who have his blackberry address have to say.

I saw Kelly'sname floated as a candidate on our board a week or so back. Sort of a repeat Tubby hire of rescuing a good coach from a bad situation with unrealistic expectations. The thing is, I'm starting to wonder if Kelly's all that good a coach. And this accident with the tower is a black mark that a lot of schools aren't going to touch. Same type of reasoning of why we probably won't go near Mike Leach.
 

I agree that this tragedy is going to be something that will follow Kelly around. Whether that is fair or not is certainly open to discussion, but as the head of the football program, Kelly is ultimately responsible for what happens with the program.

I realize I am old, but what in the heck is gained by video-taping practices from a scissors-lift? When Barreiro interviewed Mason last week, it was nice to learn that our crow's nest is a permanent structure and not a scissors-lift.
 

In my opinion Kelly should be fired immediately from ND and shouldn't receive another HC job again. In his statements after the death he admitted that he put the importance of the situation of practice ahead of player (& staff) safety. That shows the worst type of decision making possible.
 

50PoundHead said:
I realize I am old, but what in the heck is gained by video-taping practices from a scissors-lift? When Barreiro interviewed Mason last week, it was nice to learn that our crow's nest is a permanent structure and not a scissors-lift.
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It allows the coaches to grade practices as well as games. Allows them to provide feedback to all players and gives them additional film to show and teach technique.
 

Silvio said:
It allows the coaches to grade practices as well as games. Allows them to provide feedback to all players and gives them additional film to show and teach technique.
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And they can't do that from ground level? I get the angle, but I just think it's overkill.
 


Too Long in the Wasteland said:
http://college-football.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/24156338/25614599

I'm not sure if this falls under "Schadenfreude". Or, when it comes to nd, if its just old-fashioned hatred. I like the crack on message boards. I wonder if AD's ever peruse them to get the pulse of the fans. More likely they know 90% of the people on there are crackpots. And the AD is typically more worried about what the 100 top boosters who have his blackberry address have to say.

I saw Kelly'sname floated as a candidate on our board a week or so back. Sort of a repeat Tubby hire of rescuing a good coach from a bad situation with unrealistic expectations. The thing is, I'm starting to wonder if Kelly's all that good a coach. And this accident with the tower is a black mark that a lot of schools aren't going to touch. Same type of reasoning of why we probably won't go near Mike Leach.
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Read this. Very, very damning.
 

Agree that Kelly has to make adjustments against Navy, but if Notre Dame fires him, they are going to become the George Steinbrenner of college football.
 

50PoundHead said:
And they can't do that from ground level? I get the angle, but I just think it's overkill.
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It's pretty common, when I was playing we had a scissor jack with multiple cameras to film all of practice, and that is D3.
 

ruralgopher said:
It's pretty common, when I was playing we had a scissor jack with multiple cameras to film all of practice, and that is D3.
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I don't doubt that it's common. I'm just having a hard time discerning the real value of it. You've played football at a much higher level than I ever did, so you would have a better handle on the reasoning for it. It just sounds like it borders on obsessive/compulsive to me.
 



50PoundHead said:
Agree that Kelly has to make adjustments against Navy, but if Notre Dame fires him, they are going to become the George Steinbrenner of college football.
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Not when a person (staff member) died because of his negligence. Add on top of that the millions ND will likely end up paying to family once a wrongful death lawsuit if filed. Plus, I'm sure this will affect recruiting. You know all coaches have as some part of their pitch "this is a family, look after and take care of your son like he was my own."
 

50PoundHead said:
I don't doubt that it's common. I'm just having a hard time discerning the real value of it. You've played football at a much higher level than I ever did, so you would have a better handle on the reasoning for it. It just sounds like it borders on obsessive/compulsive to me.
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I think the biggest value is if you have decent cameras you can station your jack in one spot and film all position drills plus team work from one spot, less running around less likely to miss things. We (O-line) always broke down our position drills and one on ones against the D-Line.

In addition, I think many things in college sports (like having 1300 posts on a fan board!) borders on obsessive/compulsive.;)
 

Plinnius said:
Read this. Very, very damning.
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Good article. That Navy guy knows his X's & O's. Defending the triple option is a PitA, mainly because most teams don't see it very often. It takes discipline for guys (particularly the LB's) to maintain their assignments, and to make the QB commit early. As 50#'er says, Kelly should have been making adjustments. But even Brewster managed to beat Air Force.

Anyone who gets outcoached that badly should immediately be crossed off our list. Then again, I doubt Kelly was ever on that list to begin with. Especially after the accident.
 

ruralgopher said:
I think the biggest value is if you have decent cameras you can station your jack in one spot and film all position drills plus team work from one spot, less running around less likely to miss things. We (O-line) always broke down our position drills and one on ones against the D-Line.

In addition, I think many things in college sports (like having 1300 posts on a fan board!) borders on obsessive/compulsive.;)
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Got that right! LOL.
 



50PoundHead said:
And they can't do that from ground level? I get the angle, but I just think it's overkill.
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Would you like to watch a game from ground level? Why are some coaches in the press box? Why do deer hunters sit in trees?
 

50PoundHead said:
I don't doubt that it's common. I'm just having a hard time discerning the real value of it. You've played football at a much higher level than I ever did, so you would have a better handle on the reasoning for it. It just sounds like it borders on obsessive/compulsive to me.
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The end zone shot at 50 feet in the air is a much better way to view the action around the line of scrimmage compared to being on the ground. You can see things develop so much better. I would say that a ground level view does not do a whole lot for the lines. You can't see much through all the commotion going on.

I've sat in the end zones twice at Vikings games. The first time was about 8 rows up. It was very cool being that close to the action. The second time we were about 5 rows from the top in the upper deck. I enjoyed sitting up that high just as much because you could see so much more. You could see plays develop, see the holes the running backs were missing. But I'm a former player and coach, so maybe I look at those things closer than others.
 

I realize the advantage for being above ground on game day, but this incident happened during practice. I guess that's not my gripe. When you are in the press box, you are going to notice trends and wrinkles much more readily. But that's not practice and it's not teaching technique.

At least make the crow's nest a permanent structure instead of driving all over the place with a scissor's lift.

And I've watched games from ground level. It's fun and I saw things from that level that I never saw while in the stands.
 

I don't think the question should be about the value of having an overhead shot of practice.

The question is, why would the "CEO" of the program think it's a good idea to have a kid that high in the air when the wind is gusting 50+ mph?

I highly doubt Brian Kelly is at Notre Dame next season. Somebody will get the ax from this situation and he's the most likely candidate. Losing to Navy and Tulsa doesn't help his case.
 


To Nate, if Kelly is fired, the "stated" reason may be the death of Sullivan, but my guess is for many the real reason is they think he's over his head.

Khaliq, great line.

Again, I understand there is value in an overhead shot. It's another angle. I get that. Not everything can be quantified, but I just wonder how much added value these coaches actually get from the practice.
 

50PoundHead said:
Again, I understand there is value in an overhead shot. It's another angle. I get that. Not everything can be quantified, but I just wonder how much added value these coaches actually get from the practice.
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Football coaches have developed a belief that they need to work 18 hours a day. Without film, how do you pretend to work to fill that time?

What is funny is that many football coaches are dumb as bricks.
 

Winnipegopher said:
Football coaches have developed a belief that they need to work 18 hours a day. Without film, how do you pretend to work to fill that time?

What is funny is that many football coaches are dumb as bricks.
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Thanks Winnipeg! I guess that's what I was driving at. I believe when the saying "leave no stone unturned" was developed, they weren't talking about a gravel pit. I've worked around statistics and data pretty much my entire adult life and have come to the conclusion that we collect scads of stuff and a lot of it clouds reality as opposed to making choices more clear.

Again, having guys in the booth during the game can help give a better idea of where guys are lining up and how they are reacting to certain schemes and tactics. I think filming practice trends toward the goofy.
 

The scissors-lift incident is just sad. It makes me sick. And I wonder where the adults were. Anyone...
 

It never fails to shock me as to how many dumb things are written about coaching by those who know nothing about it. Do people honestly think that coaches just show up for practice and games and don't do any prep work?
 

My thinking is this. Why is the kid following directions to go up there? If I am the kid, and the coach tells me to go up there when there are 70 mph winds, I tell the coach to go off himself (but politely). And when I get fired, I take it to the higher ups at the university and they give me my job back.

Just like the kid who got locked in the shed (allegedly) at Texas Tech. If Mike Leach tells me to go into a dark shed when I am having concussion symptoms, I tell him to get bent. If he kicks me off the team, I transfer cause I don't want to play for that guy anyways. Or I can take it to the higher ups if Leach was really wrong and I will win.


It is called being a self-advocate and it seems like people (young people in particular) have never figured it out in this culture of peoples parents doing everything for their kids. I feel bad for the kid and the family, and Brian Kelly and the university definitely deserve the blame, but at some point when someone tells you to put your health at risk, don't you stop listening to them? And if you say "How was he supposed to know that it was dangerous to be up there?" Then how was Brian Kelly to know that it was dangerous up there?
 

Blaming the kid for this is despicable.
 

50PoundHead said:
And they can't do that from ground level? I get the angle, but I just think it's overkill.
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it's raised up so they can film the entire field in one frame. Alot of highschools also do it now
 

50PoundHead said:
I realize the advantage for being above ground on game day, but this incident happened during practice. I guess that's not my gripe. When you are in the press box, you are going to notice trends and wrinkles much more readily. But that's not practice and it's not teaching technique.

At least make the crow's nest a permanent structure instead of driving all over the place with a scissor's lift.

And I've watched games from ground level. It's fun and I saw things from that level that I never saw while in the stands.
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It is shocking how little people know about how football operations are run. It is even more shocking how much those people think they know about how a coach should be hired, a practice run, a game plan made, or a depth chart concocted.
 

The 12th Man said:
It is shocking how little people know about how football operations are run. It is even more shocking how much those people think they know about how a coach should be hired, a practice run, a game plan made, or a depth chart concocted.
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It's shocking how some people don't know how many players can be on the field at one time.
 



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