Brewster as a recruiter

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Gophers15

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It seems to me that Brew may be a bit overrated as a recruiter. If you look back at his past recruiting classes the big name recruits have not panned out. Although this is not all his fault because some are due to injuries such as Pittman. But what about players like Vincent Hill, Hayo, Trae Simmons (his game went to *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!# this year) and Gray was not very impressive this year even though he is a true freshman. Hasan could not qualify (not blaming Brew for that). But these are the players that should see the field right away and produce.

I know he has upgraded the talent here a lot compared to Mason but his classes seem to be padded with these high regarded recruits who have been huge disappointments for us. This years class seems to be average beyond Jimmy and Edwards. (hopefully he can pull another Carter or Cooper this year)

I have supported Brew throughout his whole time here. But the loss to Iowa State is terrible. If Brew is such a great recruiter its time for his kids to start playing. If Brew can't win a trophy game or a bowl game in 2010 he needs to go.
 

Gophers15 said:
It seems to me that Brew may be a bit overrated as a recruiter. If you look back at his past recruiting classes the big name recruits have not panned out. Although this is not all his fault because some are due to injuries such as Pittman. But what about players like Vincent Hill, Hayo, Trae Simmons (his game went to *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!# this year) and Gray was not very impressive this year even though he is a true freshman. Hasan could not qualify (not blaming Brew for that). But these are the players that should see the field right away and produce.
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I think this would more fall under coaching not recruiting. I would look at who offered these kids and a lot had BCS offers, it's just that they haven't been coached up or developed.
 

Gophers15 said:
But what about players like Vincent Hill, Hayo, Trae Simmons (his game went to *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!# this year) and Gray was not very impressive this year even though he is a true freshman. Hasan could not qualify (not blaming Brew for that).
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His high risk guys that helped those recruiting ratings haven't really panned out either. He's lost Whaley and Dandridge to trouble-making. He's lost Trumaine Brock to academics. He's lost Broderick Smith, Xavian Brandon, Terrell Combs, and John Nance to transfers. Add in Hill and that class that was ranked 17th in the country doesn't look nearly as good right now.
 

SJUgopher said:
I think this would more fall under coaching not recruiting. I would look at who offered these kids and a lot had BCS offers, it's just that they haven't been coached up or developed.
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Or, they were overrated as recruits.
 

Just as an outsider, I haven't seen the upgrade in talent. You can say that higher recruited players (offers, not stars) are coming, but you just can't see it on the field. Back when Mason was there, you could bank on Minnesota having a good/great OL, and a good/great RB or stable of RBs. I can't say I see any upgrade in the talent on the field. Meanwhile, Mason would win his third tier bowl games more often than not. Music City a couple times, Sun Bowl over Oregon. Brewster has two pretty embarrassing bowl losses.

And when a player doesn't qualify academically, you are entitled to hold that against the coach. There are plenty of guys who are risks. If you are a struggling program, you have to take more risks. But when the risks don't pan out, you have one more slot that could have gone to a kid who can actually work hard in your program.

Finally, of the guys you named that haven't panned out, 3 of 4 are JCs. It's deceiving to be impressed by the offer list of JC recruits. No one has to commit more than 2 years to the player, so it's not a big deal if they don't pan out. They can be looking to catch lightning in a bottle on a player tearing up the talentless JC level, to fill a short term need. But it is no recipe for success.
 


I think it's easy to see the product on the field and think that our recruits aren't panning out and then look at some of the non arrivals and under achieving JUCO's and think that our recruiting isn't paying off. The problem is that you're making an incorrect initial observation and applying the only evidence available to support it.

You'll always find guys who don't make it in, and JUCO's will always have a difficult time making impacts. What you are overlooking is Brewsters developmental philosophy. He redshirts kids, and eases them into playing time as best as he can. They just aren't at the point where they could be impact players yet. You haven't yet seen the impact of his recruiting classes because they aren't in impact roles yet. Even so, I think if you were to compare our freshmen and sophmores against the rest of the Big Ten you'd feel a little better.

It's really only when we compare them against juniors and seniors on other teams we get concerned. You just have to wait to judge the impact of his recruiting classes. I know it's difficult, but it is just the way it is.
 


Gophers15 said:
It seems to me that Brew may be a bit overrated as a recruiter. If you look back at his past recruiting classes the big name recruits have not panned out. Although this is not all his fault because some are due to injuries such as Pittman. But what about players like Vincent Hill, Hayo, Trae Simmons (his game went to *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!# this year) and Gray was not very impressive this year even though he is a true freshman. Hasan could not qualify (not blaming Brew for that). But these are the players that should see the field right away and produce.

I know he has upgraded the talent here a lot compared to Mason but his classes seem to be padded with these high regarded recruits who have been huge disappointments for us. This years class seems to be average beyond Jimmy and Edwards. (hopefully he can pull another Carter or Cooper this year)

I have supported Brew throughout his whole time here. But the loss to Iowa State is terrible. If Brew is such a great recruiter its time for his kids to start playing. If Brew can't win a trophy game or a bowl game in 2010 he needs to go.
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As far as this years class, I guess I am curious as to what your definition of average is. If you think he is recruiting at an average rate for someone at MN you are mistaken.
Beyond Jimmy and Edwards...
Hawkins is an impressive recruit (look at his offers)
Devon Wright (our highest rated recruit per ESPN)
Green
....these are all talents that had not chosen MN in previous seasons.

Anyone who doesn't think there will be an infusion of talent under Brewster compared to Mason is mistaken (IMO). Mason did build a solid offensive line and had good RBs, but the talent was never to the caliber of Brewster's last few classes. Our 2008 class, without Hill, Whaley, or Cobbs, is still by far the best recruiting class i can recall at the U. Keep in mind that Mason's last two full recruiting classes only generated 11 players out of 42 having any impact whatsoever (as Sr's).
 

Schnoodler said:
I think it's easy to see the product on the field and think that our recruits aren't panning out and then look at some of the non arrivals and under achieving JUCO's and think that our recruiting isn't paying off. The problem is that you're making an incorrect initial observation and applying the only evidence available to support it.

You'll always find guys who don't make it in, and JUCO's will always have a difficult time making impacts. What you are overlooking is Brewsters developmental philosophy. He redshirts kids, and eases them into playing time as best as he can. They just aren't at the point where they could be impact players yet. You haven't yet seen the impact of his recruiting classes because they aren't in impact roles yet. Even so, I think if you were to compare our freshmen and sophmores against the rest of the Big Ten you'd feel a little better.

It's really only when we compare them against juniors and seniors on other teams we get concerned. You just have to wait to judge the impact of his recruiting classes. I know it's difficult, but it is just the way it is.
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+2. His first kids (the non jucos) just finished their sophmore seasons. Can't really expect them to be carrying the team.
I'd add that if you haven't seen the upgrade in skill that Brewster has brought in, you haven't been watching the Skyline boys (specifically Cooper and McKnight) run all over the field.
 



I think 2010 will tell the tale. It's difficult to gauge whether a coach's recruiting efforts have improved a team's talent when the vast majority of his players have not seen the field. To Schood's point, Brew has maintained the philosophy of redshirting and/or working younger guys into the system slowly. On paper, the athletes in the pipeline should be an improvement over many of this year's mainstays. At some point, we need to see some of that potential come to fruition.

I won't go into every player from the relatively highly ranked (read: classes ranked well above where Minnesota should be/have historically ranked) 2008 and 2009 classes, but here's my sense of what we could see next year. I'm only going with the non-JUCOs. (This is all in my opinion, so please feel free to bash them and rip me to shreds where I err):

Keanon Cooper (2008) 4*: Redshirted for the 2008 season and a redshirt sophomore next year. Showed a lot of athleticism and big-play ability this year. Likely starter next year. Has legitimate all Big Ten potential.

Jewhan Edwards (2008) 3*: Played in 12 of 13 games as a true freshman in 2008. Cycled in with starters Brown and Small in both 2008 and 2009. Likely starter next year. Hard to say what his ceiling is, but I've generally been impressed with his performance thus far.

MarQueis Gray (2008) 4*: Academically ineligible for 2008 and played sparingly as true freshman in 2009. Seems to be an amazing athlete, but the jury is still out on whether he can be an effective QB. I hoped we'd see more of him this year than we did but, if a system can be designed around his talents, would appear to have all of the skills necessary to be a highly-effective, dynamic QB.

Brandon Green (2008) 4*: Played in 12 of 13 games as a true freshman in 2008 and as a sophomore in 2009. Has a solid skill set and has shown big-play ability, but hasn't had a breakthrough game. From watching him this year, he seemed to be open with regularity, but the ball was not thrown his way. Could be great, could be average...we need more consistent QB play for his talents to shine, in my opinion.

Brandon Kirksey (2008) 3*: See Jewhan Edwards above. Only difference (I'm not a DT expert, so I don't have a lot of color to add here) is he played in 11 rather than 12 games in 2008.

Eric Lair (2008) 3*: Played in 11 games as true freshman in 2008, primarily on special teams. Used sparingly at TE this year. My only recollection of him from 2009 was a horrifically dropped pass against OSU. Not sure it's fair to pass judgment on a player on one play, but it is what it is. Could be great, could be average...we'll find out next year.

Sam Maresh (2008) 4*: Sat out 2008 season due to heart defect. Redshirted as true freshman last year.

Dajon McKnight (2008) 2*: Played sparingly as true freshman in 2008. Came on strong following Decker's injury this year. Big and reasonably fast, he could be the steal of the Skyline 4.

Spencer Reeves (2008) 3*: Uh, grayshirted in 2008, I believe. Don't recall any significant time in 2009. Has fantastic measureables. I would expect we'll see a lot more of him in 2010.

Gary Tinsley (2008) 3*: Played on special teams as true freshman. Played a reasonable amount of time in 2009 and looked good. Swings a 2x4 like it's his job.

D.L. Wilhite (2008) 3*: Redshirted in 2008. Played extensively in 2009, primarily on passing downs. Has a gang of potential to be a true, speed-rushing DE. Like this kid a lot.

Bryant Allen (2009) 3*: Played in every game as a true freshman, primarily on punt return. Really, really fast. Remains to be seen what his true potential is, but he has a ton of upside.

Michael Carter (2009) 4*: Unsure of the number of games he played in, but is clearly talented based on his playing time at CB as a true freshman. Will be a shutdown corner for us for the next few years.

I could be wrong here, but I believe the remainder of the 2009 class redshirted this year. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

So, long story longer, there just haven't been many of Brew's recruits that have seen the field. Consequently, you can criticize his philosophy of giving playing time to younger players, but really can't knock his recruiting yet. 2010 will begin to tell the tale as to whether his recruiting has resulted in more talent on the field.
 

I was going to go through the classes too, thanks MBA for saving me the time. When you do this, the potential starts to illuminate. It's easy to forget most everything we got excited about two years ago is still there and progressing nicely. And last years class is nearly fully in tact and almost all redshirted or contributed greatly already.
 





SouthMetro said:
But he recruited Vince Young to Texas. A tough place to recruit at i'm told.

SouthMetro
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I heard Barriero talking about that last night, too. Thanks for the original line.

Texas is easier to recruit to, obviously. But Brown improved their program. Here are Texas records before Brown arrived:

1991 - 5-6
1992 - 6-5
1993 - 5-5-1
1994 - 8-4
1995 - 10-2-1
1996 - 8-5
1997 - 4-7
 


MBA, very realistic. If TB can keep it up and continue to build the right way 2011 and 2012 could be very interesting. Now add Henderson and Gjere and another Olson to the mix of redshirts and we've got a pretty bright future. We have to get Sentrel, but he has to see the potential.
 

Gophers15 said:
It seems to me that Brew may be a bit overrated as a recruiter. If you look back at his past recruiting classes the big name recruits have not panned out. Although this is not all his fault because some are due to injuries such as Pittman. But what about players like Vincent Hill, Hayo, Trae Simmons (his game went to *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!# this year) and Gray was not very impressive this year even though he is a true freshman. Hasan could not qualify (not blaming Brew for that). But these are the players that should see the field right away and produce.

I know he has upgraded the talent here a lot compared to Mason but his classes seem to be padded with these high regarded recruits who have been huge disappointments for us. This years class seems to be average beyond Jimmy and Edwards. (hopefully he can pull another Carter or Cooper this year)

I have supported Brew throughout his whole time here. But the loss to Iowa State is terrible. If Brew is such a great recruiter its time for his kids to start playing. If Brew can't win a trophy game or a bowl game in 2010 he needs to go.
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Could we at least have a bit of reality involved here? It's time for his kids to start playing? Who stripped the ball against Air Force? Whose "kid" is McKnight? Whose is Cooper? How about Tinsley? Or Theret? Or - you get it. They are starting to play and guess what? MOST OF THEM ARE SOPHOMORES OR FRESHMEN. What is there about the class designation some of you impatient football fans can't understand?
 

Oh, and other than the fact it was a boring game, the loss to Iowa State is not terrible. Let's get rid of that myth right now. It was an even matchup. Everybody knew it going in and everyone knows it coming out. Except a few GH'ers.
 

Gophers15 said:
It seems to me that Brew may be a bit overrated as a recruiter. If you look back at his past recruiting classes the big name recruits have not panned out. Although this is not all his fault because some are due to injuries such as Pittman. But what about players like Vincent Hill, Hayo, Trae Simmons (his game went to *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!# this year) and Gray was not very impressive this year even though he is a true freshman. Hasan could not qualify (not blaming Brew for that). But these are the players that should see the field right away and produce.

I know he has upgraded the talent here a lot compared to Mason but his classes seem to be padded with these high regarded recruits who have been huge disappointments for us. This years class seems to be average beyond Jimmy and Edwards. (hopefully he can pull another Carter or Cooper this year)

I have supported Brew throughout his whole time here. But the loss to Iowa State is terrible. If Brew is such a great recruiter its time for his kids to start playing. If Brew can't win a trophy game or a bowl game in 2010 he needs to go.
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Excellent Post.
 

charlesbenjamin7 said:
These are not the droids you ar looking for. C'mon man - stop drinking the damn kool aid. This is NOT a talented team and there is no evidence that it will et better any time soon.
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I don't know what it is about these posts that just get my goat, but I'm starting to feel like the only things I ever post here are defenses of Brewster and his recruiting. The sheer volume of posts pushing this message (entirely devoid of relevant facts) make me think a large number of these fine posters are trolls who for some reason enjoy pissing off informed Gopher fans.

Anyway....there is a TON of evidence that this team is more talented than we've seen in a while. But it's YOUNG talent, still growing and learning, like most underclassmen. If you missed it on the field this year (and rest assured, the signs were there...Keanon Cooper looks in every way like he could turn into the best LB we've seen here) just look back at the expert's opinions on the last few classes Brewster's brought in (versus any of Mason's classes). Or, if you're that lazy, just wait a year or two.
 

Honestly, I'm not sure what more I have to say on this topic. After listing out most of Brew's high profile recruits from 2008 and discussing how most of the 2009 recruits were redshirted, I said it was totally justifiable to criticize Brewster for his philosophy of not playing young players; but it was not appropriate to criticize his recruiting because the vast majority of his recruits have not seen the field yet.

I understand your frustration. I want to see the talent level on the field increase too. The fact is, we should see more of it in 2010. If things don't seem to be improving throughout the course of next year, then I'll admit we have a problem. As it stands now, though, the biggest criticism is that he's opting to build his talent before putting it on the field.
 

Keanon Cooper (2008) 4*: Redshirted for the 2008 season and a redshirt sophomore next year. Showed a lot of athleticism and big-play ability this year. Likely starter next year. Has legitimate all Big Ten potential.
>>> Agreed. Looks like a real player at this level and should be fun to watch the next couple years. I don't think "All Big-10" is an unrealistic goal at all.

Jewhan Edwards (2008) 3*: Played in 12 of 13 games as a true freshman in 2008. Cycled in with starters Brown and Small in both 2008 and 2009. Likely starter next year. Hard to say what his ceiling is, but I've generally been impressed with his performance thus far.
>>> Again we agree, I'm very impressed with Edwards and he is the anchor of our defense net year I think. Imagine if Edwards gets hurt prior to opening kickoff? We'd be really small in our D front seven...That's usually not a good thing on the Big-10.

MarQueis Gray (2008) 4*: Academically ineligible for 2008 and played sparingly as true freshman in 2009. Seems to be an amazing athlete, but the jury is still out on whether he can be an effective QB. I hoped we'd see more of him this year than we did but, if a
system can be designed around his talents, would appear to have all of the skills necessary to be a highly-effective, dynamic QB.
>>>kid's got mad skillz! He's taken a while to catch on, but don't panic, he's going to be very, very good. He'll be the main man by the end of the season.

Brandon Green (2008) 4*: Played in 12 of 13 games as a true freshman in 2008 and as a sophomore in 2009. Has a solid skill set and has shown big-play ability, but hasn't had a breakthrough game. From watching him this year, he seemed to be open with regularity, but the ball was not thrown his way. Could be great, could be average...we need more consistent QB play for his talents to shine, in my opinion.
>>> Again, agree. Hard to say right now. Physically he LOOKS like a poor man's Anthony Carter to me. Seems really agile, with great hands. A little soft and not quite as fast you'd like from a #1 receiver. It's also hard to get many balls unless you're the (Whatever we're calling it??) "Big" receiver position that Decker/McKnight play.

Brandon Kirksey (2008) 3*: See Jewhan Edwards above. Only difference (I'm not a DT expert, so I don't have a lot of color to add here) is he played in 11 rather than 12 games in 2008.
>>> A highly talented player who could be either a quick, pass rushing DT (Read the smaller, non "Nose Tackle" type) or a big DE in a 3-4 situations. Not a big-body run stuffer like Edwards (Which is why they complement each other so well).

Eric Lair (2008) 3*: Played in 11 games as true freshman in 2008, primarily on special teams. Used sparingly at TE this year. My only recollection of him from 2009 was a horrifically dropped pass against OSU. Not sure it's fair to pass judgment on a player on one play, but it is what it is. Could be great, could be average...we'll find out next year.
I still Lair as a big time recruit and have high hopes for his Jr & Sr years.

Sam Maresh (2008) 4*: Sat out 2008 season due to heart defect. Redshirted as true freshman last year.
>>> My favorite Gopher. I've heard everything in the past 60 bays from "He will not be back. His athletic career is over. He's had enough." to "He's looked really solid as he gotten his mojo back and he'll be a pleasant surprise next year"

Dajon McKnight (2008) 2*: Played sparingly as true freshman in 2008. Came on strong following Decker's injury this year. Big and reasonably fast, he could be the steal of the Skyline 4.
>>> Am I the only one who thinks his #1 qualification is playing the position Decker played before injury and that Weber is partly trained to look that way first?

Spencer Reeves (2008) 3*: Uh, grayshirted in 2008, I believe. Don't recall any significant time in 2009. Has fantastic measureables. I would expect we'll see a lot more of him in 2010.
>>> Big things expected, who knows where he's at? He could just as easily be the #5 LB next year, or the #2.

Gary Tinsley (2008) 3*: Played on special teams as true freshman. Played a reasonable amount of time in 2009 and looked good. Swings a 2x4 like it's his job.
>>> Looks good and perhaps has the quicks to move outside to allow Maresh the inside?

D.L. Wilhite (2008) 3*: Redshirted in 2008. Played extensively in 2009, primarily on passing downs. Has a gang of potential to be a true, speed-rushing DE. Like this kid a lot.
>>> The kid's got game. He can bring it on the rush and as he continues to mature and get bigger he'll get better against the rush.

Bryant Allen (2009) 3*: Played in every game as a true freshman, primarily on punt return. Really, really fast. Remains to be seen what his true potential is, but he has a ton of upside.
>>> More "quick" or "agile" than "fast" in my mind. Lot's of upside.

Michael Carter (2009) 4*: Unsure of the number of games he played in, but is clearly talented based on his playing time at CB as a true freshman. Will be a shutdown corner for us for the next few years.
 

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