BREAKING: Elijah Hawkins to transfer

[Dave H]

The players unionizing would be an improvement at this point.

At this point I think it is inevitable whether it is an improvement or not. Look I don't blame them for being lured in by big offers and (in some cases) impossible promises but sooner or later the bottom will fall out. Sure the top of the top will get their money but if we don't think the big money booster guys or the shady NILs won't start screwing over the players then we are being beyond naïve. Promises will be reneged on, money will be with held (or lawyered to the point that it is much less than originally promised) and lord knows what else will happen.

We already have seen, prior to this mess, that jumping into the Portal is no guarantee. Now even more players are doing it...top players from top teams. While we get a lot of tweets saying "X amount of teams have contacted Y player" that means very little. Sooner or later teams with boatloads of cash are going to only focus on the creme de la creme and players like say Hawkins (no insult to him he is just an example) are going to jump into the portal and end up not liking what they find. (no matter what NIL agents tell them) No one is looking out for the players (especially the agents and boosters) so one day they will have to protect themselves...from everyone including themselves.

 

[Dave H]

Evidence of simple mindedness. Point to a bogeyman and assume that everything would be fine if it weren't for that bogeyman. Some point to Ben Johnson and some others point to the administration. Some may point to the courts. In reality, the blame doesn't go to any one person or organization. It's like the outbreak of WWI. Many actors just followed what seemed like the logical or necessary actions according to self-interest and all hell broke loose.

This is 100% spot on.

 

[Dave H]

Being a tournament team has nothing to do with getting raided in the portal. In the end we don't know if a different coach would have more or less success keeping guys around in this current landscape.

But if the team has a rough year in 24/25 we will probably get to find out.

No but if we had been a tourny team at least people would feel better about the prospects that Ben could ride the storm out and probably put something together. Coming off an up and down year where we lost early in the NIT and being raided is pretty demoralizing.

 

[MNVCGUY]

No but if we had been a tourny team at least people would feel better about the prospects that Ben could ride the storm out and probably put something together. Coming off an up and down year where we lost early in the NIT and being raided is pretty demoralizing.

Definitely......have made the comment multiple times that had Coyle decided to fire Johnson after the season I doubt many here would have been bent out of shape about it. I just get annoyed at the people acting like this is just about Ben when this insanity goes so much deeper than just the head coach.

 

[Spaulding!No!]

Live in that past if you want to. We were one of a handful of teams then that allowed players that weren't white to play.
I guess I should have said of recent past instead of all time.

It is amazing how that difference has played out.

 

[Dave H]

Definitely......have made the comment multiple times that had Coyle decided to fire Johnson after the season I doubt many here would have been bent out of shape about it. I just get annoyed at the people acting like this is just about Ben when this insanity goes so much deeper than just the head coach.

I know. Hawkins didn't leave because of Johnson. Some of the others may have but Hawkins thinks he is going to get paid. For his sake I hope he does because (if reports are to be believed) he turned down very good money and a starting spot on a Big Infinity team (that he excelled on) to do it. He was a good fit for how Ben coached and Big Infinity Basketball and I just wonder if he is going to do well on some of the teams that he is supposedly looking at.

 

[disco]

My guess is something like that couldn't happen in the NFL because the owners as a group wouldn't allow it to happen.

Baseball might be a different story though. Just look at the shenanigans the Dodgers pulled with Ohtani's contract.

Yeah, I could see it happening in baseball. Don't weird shenanigans like this happen in European soccer too? I could be wrong. I've always assumed Russian oligarchs do things like this in the KHL.

I would guess in the NFL, NBA, NHL there's something in the bylaws that would consider this circumventing the salary cap, even if someone other than the team is paying them.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Call me crazy but if Ben has more years like last year - middle of Big Ten pack and being NIT participants - wouldnt that be about the same success that PJ has had? Lets not act like PJ is putting together world-beater rosters every year here

PJ's been the coach 7 years. He has a top 10 finish and he's finished over .500 in conference 3 seasons.

For Ben to equal PJ's success, he'd need to make the NCAA tournament every other season, he'd need an Elite 8 / Sweet 16 run, and another Sweet 16/Round of 32 run, and the floor would be similar to last season - the floor.

The Gopher basketball program has had 3 seasons over .500 in this millenium. In that time, we've also won 2 NCAA tournament games.

 

[howeda7]

The Gophers face many issues. NIL. An administration that isn't very invested or willing to color outside the lines. And not having a competent B1G head coach. But one is far more easily fixed than the other two.

 

[MplsGopher]

I would guess in the NFL, NBA, NHL there's something in the bylaws that would consider this circumventing the salary cap, even if someone other than the team is paying them.

I had this exact same argument in the football forum, questioning why an NFL player or team can’t sue the league for antitrust violation if the rules do indeed prohibit the player from signing a (sizable) NIL deal that is contingent upon signing a free-agent deal with a particular team.

I was simply told, with reasoning of “because I say so”, that the antitrust law has specific carveouts/exemptions for CBA’s in professional sports leagues that do allow such prohibition.

Not a very satisfying answer and no actual language or cases were cited.

 

[bga1]

The Gophers face many issues. NIL. An administration that isn't very invested or willing to color outside the lines. And not having a competent B1G head coach. But one is far more easily fixed than the other two.

We have the coach. That's reality. The AD needs to get after it with potential NIL boosters and do what we can to help this coach this spring. Whether he fails or succeeds be fully prepared to help this coach or the next one succeed with better than market NIL support. After 50 years of relative difficulty in this sport- we need a surge, a big push. We cannot expect to jump higher on the ladder with average or below average pay for coaches and NIL support.

 

[howeda7]

We have the coach. That's reality. The AD needs to get after it with potential NIL boosters and do what we can to help this coach this spring. Whether he fails or succeeds be fully prepared to help this coach or the next one succeed with better than market NIL support. After 50 years of relative difficulty in this sport- we need a surge, a big push. We cannot expect to jump higher on the ladder with average or below average pay for coaches and NIL support.

It's over for Ben. But I guess we have no choice but to flush another year and do it 11 months from now.

 

[Dave H]

Unless Ben quits, the rest of the team walks away or someone like Dutcher calls and says "fire him and hire me" (just a lame example) Johnson is the coach for next year. After that though the likelihood is slim.

 

[dpodoll68]

Anyone else follow the English Premier League? There's 6 teams out of the 20 that far outspend the others and the champion is almost always one of those 6. If another team jumps up and does well, their best players immediately get snatched by the bigs - sometimes during the year.

Yet, it's still one of the most popular leagues on the planet.

My guess -and it's just a guess - is this is a glimpse into the future of college basketball.

I'm curious about your interpretation of the 6 teams that "far outspend" the others. The #6 team in payroll (Aston Villa) spends about £9 million more than the #7 team in payroll (Tottenham Hotspur). Aston Villa at #6 is closer in payroll to the #19 team than they are to the #1 team.

Also, the team that won the league 8 years ago isn't even in the league anymore.

 

[formerlybis]

I'm curious about your interpretation of the 6 teams that "far outspend" the others. The #6 team in payroll (Aston Villa) spends about £9 million more than the #7 team in payroll (Tottenham Hotspur). Aston Villa at #6 is closer in payroll to the #19 team than they are to the #1 team.

Also, the team that won the league 8 years ago isn't even in the league anymore.

That Leicester year was a complete outlier (and fantastic).

I think of the big 6 as the two Manchesters, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal and Spurs. Add Newcastle as a johnny-come-lately to the big spenders. The list I'm looking at has those as the top 7, all above 565m euros. The richest of the bottom 7 is roughly half of that.

 

[BrooklynGopher]

Well, this is an absolute gut punch. No other way about it.

 

[Spaulding!No!]

That Leicester year was a complete outlier (and fantastic).

I think of the big 6 as the two Manchesters, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal and Spurs. Add Newcastle as a johnny-come-lately to the big spenders. The list I'm looking at has those as the top 7, all above 565m euros. The richest of the bottom 7 is roughly half of that.

I do love hanging in Leicester square.

 

[MplsGopher]

I'm not going team by team but Wisconsin lost Storr and Hepburn. We aren't the only team losing starters or star players.

I'm not surprised at all to learn we aren't the only team. Wisconsin is a great comparison.

So, that's one team with a situation comparable to what happened with Hawkins (though I'm guessing neither of those guys said they'd be back and then left).

I'm just pointing out that this portal insanity is not a Minnesota thing, it is going on all over the country.

Wisconsin is all over the country?

Of course, everyone is having guys transfer out, but I suspect most of those transfers at most of the other schools are guys leaving that are more like Ihnen leaving us. No one gives a s__t here about Ihnen leaving.

Hawkins leaving here is much, much more of a big deal to the fanbase and I'm guessing there are a limited number of comparable examples like that "all over the country".


That's all I'm pointing out. You're falsely trying to equate the two different things (lots of transfers all over, but the transfers are much more minor VS. a very significant player transferring out).

 

[dpodoll68]

I never understood why so many people hated this guy but after digesting more of his input on this board I'm beginning to see the reasons.

It is quite literally the worst. If people would stop responding to it and giving it oxygen, I feel like it would eventually give up and go away, but people keep giving its asinine opinions the time of day, and so it keeps posting its horrible nonsense.

 

[stocker08]

It's both, but Johnson doesn't exactly inspire great confidence either. It's not as though we're coming off a tournament appearance and getting picked off for guys. We were barely a top 90 team. Even with everyone returning we weren't going to be a projected tournament team.

Again.....Johnson has nothing to do with guys leaving because they are offered more NIL money elsewhere.

But it is a Ben Johnson issue. Ben's biggest skillset was touted as recruiting. Well, thanks to NIL, recruiting has changed drastically and I haven't seen any indication that Ben has adjusted his strength, recruiting, to keep pace with the changes.

His recruiting skills have been greatly diminished, while his other Head Coaching skills have not grown sufficiently to back up his place as a Power Conference coach.

You can argue that the $$$NIL issue isn't all his fault, and though that could be a fair point, the culture of the University and its administration handcuffed Ben from the start thanks to their aversion to economic renumeration at market rates.

Quit. Blaming Johnson because kids are chasing money is complete nonsense.

 

[Harrymannback77]

Didn’t figure out how to win the West outright and won a couple bowl games that were the equivalent of playing in the CBI tournament..

Yeah, that beat down we gave top 10 ranked Auburn was a real stinker!

 

[MplsGopher]

Again.....Johnson has nothing to do with guys leaving because they are offered more NIL money elsewhere.

Probably not.

The stretch argument that you could try to make is more like "Garcia stayed at the U in spite of lower NIL and possibly in spite of Johnson ... if Johnson were better maybe Hawkins and/or more of the other guys make the same choice?"

 

[Gophers7633]

Again.....Johnson has nothing to do with guys leaving because they are offered more NIL money elsewhere.



Quit. Blaming Johnson because kids are chasing money is complete nonsense.

Again, I'm saying the NIL thing is a problem, but our coach doesn't inspire any confidence either. Both can be true. Had we not spent the last 3 seasons being the worst team in the league, maybe the NIL situation would be better.

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

Again.....Johnson has nothing to do with guys leaving because they are offered more NIL money elsewhere.



Quit. Blaming Johnson because kids are chasing money is complete nonsense.

PJ's pulling players that will be backups out of the SEC but BJ can't even recruit a starting B1G roster.

Yeah it's totally not BJ's fault....

 

[Dakota2]

A step not likely to be built upon. And if you are going to ding Fleck for avoiding the East at least ding Ben for having one of the worst NC schedules in the country and losing the 2 toughest games in that NC schedule. Not to mention his rotation of players down the stretch definitely played into why the team faltered.

He is to be credited for a weak non-conference schedule. It allowed him time to get his team ready for a competitive first two thirds of the conference schedule. Smart on the part of whoever made that decision.

His rotation of players the last few weeks was dictated by the performance of the bench players. Nobody with a brain would have done it much different.

 

[Dakota2]

Pretty sure you have to be in the portal by May 1st to be eligible for the upcoming season but you don't have to be committed to another school by May 1st.

That said, who knows what if any rules are even still in effect and I am sure someone can just sue if they want to enter the portal after May 1st and will have no trouble getting immediate eligibility because that is how things seem to work now.

If you are in the portal by May 1, you can join another team any time up until school starts next fall.

 

[Dakota2]

I think that is the ultimate end to this whole situation. if you look at the court cases the NCAA is losing left and right, they are all around anti-trust issues. the NLRB is taking a public stance that college athletes should be considered employees.

and that is where it all ends up. athletes are employees of the school. they can form unions and compensation can be collectively bargained. all compensation will come through the schools - both in revenue-sharing of TV money and NIL/pay for play money. that is the only way that some order is restored to major college sports - at least D1 power-conference football and basketball.

whether this is decided through the courts, or through legislative action, that is what I see as the end game.

Then each conference has to decide on how much is going into compensation in each sport for member schools. You can't have Ohio State, Michigan, and USC deciding 30% of their TV money goes to football players and Minnesota and Northwestern allocate 8% for football and basketball.

 

[Dakota2]

We didn’t start this thread because Ihnen left. Hawkins was a star on the team and a big part of the improvement. And he said he was coming back. And then left anyway.

I don’t think you’ll find that situation happening everywhere else, like you’re implying here.

Yes every team is having guys leave. But those are like the Ihnen guys.

Guys like Ihnen and AJ Storz.

 

[bga1]

He is to be credited for a weak non-conference schedule. It allowed him time to get his team ready for a competitive first two thirds of the conference schedule. Smart on the part of whoever made that decision.

His rotation of players the last few weeks was dictated by the performance of the bench players. Nobody with a brain would have done it much different.

Or perhaps the weak schedule allowed Ihnen and Joseph to get away with some developing some bad habits that they later had to get benched for. The weak non conference schedule was a bad idea in every way possible. It's a loser's mentality to not want to face good competition.

 

[Dakota2]

The Gophers face many issues. NIL. An administration that isn't very invested or willing to color outside the lines. And not having a competent B1G head coach. But one is far more easily fixed than the other two.

When? This week? May? When should it be done?