BREAKING: Elijah Hawkins to transfer

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MNVCGUY said:
Right because clearly this is just a Ben Johnson and Minnesota issue. Definitely not seeing tons of players jumping into the portal all over the country.

Look at the thread specifically dedicated to the Big Ten transfers. Michigan State, Northwestern, Oregon and Purdue are the only teams with less than 3 players in the portal right now.

There is very little loyalty and commitment from players across the country. A coaching change is no guarantee to help but if the team struggles in 24/25 we will get to find out.
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MplsGopher said:
It’s well and good to keep bringing this point up. But at some point … don’t we need to get some new bodies actually in here??

Like, at least replacing all the bodies that have left?
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MNVCGUY wouldn't be bringing it up if we didn't have certain posters acting as though this is a Ben Johnson issue rather than what it really is.....a $$$ issue.
 

Dave H said:
There is no way to do that that won't run afoul of something. You try and limit what a player can make they will unionize. There is no putting the genie back into this lamp the NCAA as we know it doesn't have the power or the authority to do anything any more.
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Yes, what people don't recognize is that this new system is the result of the NCAA losing several lawsuits that have been brought against it by former college athletes. The NCAA would certainly prefer the old system, they know the new system probably hurts the vast majority of schools, but they are basically powerless to stop it because they lose any court case brought against them.
 

stocker08 said:
MNVCGUY wouldn't be bringing it up if we didn't have certain posters acting as though this is a Ben Johnson issue rather than what it really is.....a $$$ issue.
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It's both.... $$ will come if he would just f'n win..... But he is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to green right now... What needs to happen is he goes and develops some chops elsewhere, learn the ropes elsewhere.... The B1G is NOT the place for on the job training... If your a retail store manager you don't get handed the keys to the Cadillac store until you get the pintos sold.... You work your way up.....

Put a product on the court that is a consistent winner.... And the $ will come...
 

MplsGopher said:
It’s well and good to keep bringing this point up. But at some point … don’t we need to get some new bodies actually in here??

Like, at least replacing all the bodies that have left?
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Sure....I mean that isn't the point of bringing up the fact that everyone is getting hit hard by guys leaving but yeah it would be nice to see some additional commitments.
 


WilliamsArenaGuy said:
Why? He made a snarky, unnecessary, and off-topic comment. He can defend himself if he chooses to.
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That's fine. I chose to do it. I am sorry about the other gentleman's situation but his comment was also unnecessary, a little nasty and off topic. Certainly SS was not attempting to attack him. So was yours and this one I am writing.
 

stocker08 said:
MNVCGUY wouldn't be bringing it up if we didn't have certain posters acting as though this is a Ben Johnson issue rather than what it really is.....a $$$ issue.
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Evidence of simple mindedness. Point to a bogeyman and assume that everything would be fine if it weren't for that bogeyman. Some point to Ben Johnson and some others point to the administration. Some may point to the courts. In reality, the blame doesn't go to any one person or organization. It's like the outbreak of WWI. Many actors just followed what seemed like the logical or necessary actions according to self-interest and all hell broke loose.
 
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Off-GridTNgopher said:
It's both.... $$ will come if he would just f'n win..... But he is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to green right now... What needs to happen is he goes and develops some chops elsewhere, learn the ropes elsewhere.... The B1G is NOT the place for on the job training... If your a retail store manager you don't get handed the keys to the Cadillac store until you get the pintos sold.... You work your way up.....

Put a product on the court that is a consistent winner.... And the $ will come...
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Criticising his performance as a coach is completely fair. But there's no reason to act like these transfers are his fault. It's been made very clear that Hawkins and Payne are leaving to chase money. And the Gophers are far from the only school having this issue. Wisconsin has been one of the better Big Ten basketball programs and they're having the exact same issues.
 

stocker08 said:
MNVCGUY wouldn't be bringing it up if we didn't have certain posters acting as though this is a Ben Johnson issue rather than what it really is.....a $$$ issue.
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It's both, but Johnson doesn't exactly inspire great confidence either. It's not as though we're coming off a tournament appearance and getting picked off for guys. We were barely a top 90 team. Even with everyone returning we weren't going to be a projected tournament team.
 



stocker08 said:
MNVCGUY wouldn't be bringing it up if we didn't have certain posters acting as though this is a Ben Johnson issue rather than what it really is.....a $$$ issue.
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I doubt Garcia came back purely because of $$$.

I don’t know if Ben talked him into it, if it had nothing to do with Ben, or if it was in spite of Ben.
 

TwistingMyMelon said:
Evidence of simple mindedness. Point to a bogeyman and assume that everything would be fine if it weren't for that bogeyman. Some point to Ben Johnson and some others point to the administration. Some may point to the courts. In reality, the blame doesn't go to any one person or organization. It's like the outbreak of WWI. Many actors just followed what seemed like the logical or necessary actions and all hell broke loose.
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Lack of awareness/aggressiveness on NIL = administration
Lack of readiness to coach at this level = Ben
Inability to inspire the administration/boosters to do more on NIL = Ben
Choosing Ben = administration
NIL situation = society/NCAA
 

MNVCGUY said:
Sure....I mean that isn't the point of bringing up the fact that everyone is getting hit hard by guys leaving but yeah it would be nice to see some additional commitments.
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We didn’t start this thread because Ihnen left. Hawkins was a star on the team and a big part of the improvement. And he said he was coming back. And then left anyway.

I don’t think you’ll find that situation happening everywhere else, like you’re implying here.

Yes every team is having guys leave. But those are like the Ihnen guys.
 

Gophers7633 said:
It's both, but Johnson doesn't exactly inspire great confidence either. It's not as though we're coming off a tournament appearance and getting picked off for guys. We were barely a top 90 team. Even with everyone returning we weren't going to be a projected tournament team.
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Being a tournament team has nothing to do with getting raided in the portal. In the end we don't know if a different coach would have more or less success keeping guys around in this current landscape.

But if the team has a rough year in 24/25 we will probably get to find out.
 



Gophers7633 said:
It's both, but Johnson doesn't exactly inspire great confidence either. It's not as though we're coming off a tournament appearance and getting picked off for guys. We were barely a top 90 team. Even with everyone returning we weren't going to be a projected tournament team.
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Your stick is pretty funny. Consistently saying they were a fringe top 100 team and now they were barely a top 90 team. What metric are you using? They were 78th in kenpom and 77th in trank. I know wins don't matter to you but at least don't lie :/

Also I've seen projections that have the Gophers as one of the 1st 4 out and another has them as a top 40 team. Keep making stuff up.
 


MplsGopher said:
We didn’t start this thread because Ihnen left. Hawkins was a star on the team and a big part of the improvement. And he said he was coming back. And then left anyway.

I don’t think you’ll find that situation happening everywhere else, like you’re implying here.

Yes every team is having guys leave. But those are like the Ihnen guys.
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You're kidding right......you really haven't noticed star players from other teams going into the portal? Come on....really?

But yeah, the Hawkins situation is weird because he said he was coming back and then decided to leave. Not sure how you blame that on the coach but I am sure some of you will find a way too.
 

MNVCGUY said:
You're kidding right......you really haven't noticed star players from other teams going into the portal? Come on....really?
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The post I quoted said “the fact that everyone is getting hit hard by guys leaving”.

So now you’re changing to “there are more than zero other star players leaving a few other teams too”
 

MNVCGUY said:
Being a tournament team has nothing to do with getting raided in the portal. In the end we don't know if a different coach would have more or less success keeping guys around in this current landscape.

But if the team has a rough year in 24/25 we will probably get to find out.
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I'm not saying it does. I'm saying guys are getting poached off a team that wasn't good to begin with(improved, yes). I'd have more frustration if we were actually good and all this was happening. Hawkins can be replaced, heck I'd take the Evans kid over him anyway.
 

MplsGopher said:
The post I quoted said “the fact that everyone is getting hit hard by guys leaving”.

So now you’re changing to “there are more than zero other star players leaving a few other teams too”
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I'm not going team by team but Wisconsin lost Storr and Hepburn. We aren't the only team losing starters or star players. Good lord, I'm not trying to defend Johnson or whatever I'm just pointing out that this portal insanity is not a Minnesota thing, it is going on all over the country. It is happening to new coaches and it is happening to experienced coaches.....it is happening to good programs and it is happening to mediocre programs.....

.....the entire thing is a complete clusterf&ck of players jumping around from school to school.
 

disco said:
But that's not going to happen in the NFL. I can't pay Justin Jefferson under the table to play for the Seahawks instead of the Vikings because I'm a Seahawks fan. Nobody would even think of something so absurd in the NFL. Sure, there are better endorsement opportunities in certain markets, but there aren't crooked rich fans buying players for pro teams.
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I was having this exact conversation with someone the other day. Why couldn't this happen? Let's say you are Jeff Bezos and you love the Jaguars, you tell FA guy, hey listen, I will give you a 5 year 300m endorsement deal to Amazon BUT you have to sign with the jags for 5 yr 5m to get it. Player makes more money, team is happy, rich guys favorite team is better. Is there an actual rule against this??

Now this is near impossible in pro sports because of the amount of money they get, JJ will get $40m per year, this isn't like a kid making $100k off of NIL, but the point remains that I'm not sure it is technically illegal is it?

Again this all goes back to contracts for me, kids will eventually sign contracts they can't break or will need to be like coaches where they have buyouts if they want to leave.
 


leib0039 said:
I was having this exact conversation with someone the other day. Why couldn't this happen? Let's say you are Jeff Bezos and you love the Jaguars, you tell FA guy, hey listen, I will give you a 5 year 300m endorsement deal to Amazon BUT you have to sign with the jags for 5 yr 5m to get it. Player makes more money, team is happy, rich guys favorite team is better. Is there an actual rule against this??

Now this is near impossible in pro sports because of the amount of money they get, JJ will get $40m per year, this isn't like a kid making $100k off of NIL, but the point remains that I'm not sure it is technically illegal is it?

Again this all goes back to contracts for me, kids will eventually sign contracts they can't break or will need to be like coaches where they have buyouts if they want to leave.
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My guess is something like that couldn't happen in the NFL because the owners as a group wouldn't allow it to happen.

Baseball might be a different story though. Just look at the shenanigans the Dodgers pulled with Ohtani's contract.
 

leib0039 said:
Again this all goes back to contracts for me, kids will eventually sign contracts they can't break or will need to be like coaches where they have buyouts if they want to leave.
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I'd have to say that directly paying the players and instituting contracts might be the simplest resolution to this situation.
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
Your stick is pretty funny. Consistently saying they were a fringe top 100 team and now they were barely a top 90 team. What metric are you using? They were 78th in kenpom and 77th in trank. I know wins don't matter to you but at least don't lie :/

Also I've seen projections that have the Gophers as one of the 1st 4 out and another has them as a top 40 team. Keep making stuff up.
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We finished 89th in the NET, we were 87th in BPI and 102 in KPI. We were 77th in KenPom. We were 83 in SoR. Add it all up and it comes to 87.6. Please tell me again how I'm lying.

I haven't seen those projections. I've seen us in ESPN's as Next 4 Out(teams 5-8). Haven't seen the top 40 projection. So, no I haven't made anything up.
 

TwistingMyMelon said:
I never understood why so many people hated this guy but after digesting more of his input on this board I'm beginning to see the reasons.
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I had him on ignore for a while.....took him off.....not planning to go back yet but contemplating it :)
 

Gophers7633 said:
We finished 89th in the NET, we were 87th in BPI and 102 in KPI. We were 77th in KenPom. We were 83 in SoR. Add it all up and it comes to 87.6. Please tell me again how I'm lying.

I haven't seen those projections. I've seen us in ESPN's as Next 4 Out(teams 5-8). Haven't seen the top 40 projection. So, no I haven't made anything up.
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I'm glad you threw in KPI (as if anyone knows what that is) to lower the average. Proud of you for showing the clown you are.
 


stocker08 said:
MNVCGUY wouldn't be bringing it up if we didn't have certain posters acting as though this is a Ben Johnson issue rather than what it really is.....a $$$ issue.
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But it is a Ben Johnson issue. Ben's biggest skillset was touted as recruiting. Well, thanks to NIL, recruiting has changed drastically and I haven't seen any indication that Ben has adjusted his strength, recruiting, to keep pace with the changes.

His recruiting skills have been greatly diminished, while his other Head Coaching skills have not grown sufficiently to back up his place as a Power Conference coach.

You can argue that the $$$NIL issue isn't all his fault, and though that could be a fair point, the culture of the University and its administration handcuffed Ben from the start thanks to their aversion to economic renumeration at market rates.
 

GopherTheJugular said:
How do you feel about the defensive end from Clemson who entered the portal yesterday morning and then committed to us pretty quickly? Obviously there's no proof and since he had committed to us last summer, it could be reasoned that he contacted us after entering, but the timing is still the timing. ;)
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I friggin hate it. I know that is an unpopular opinion but I think it stinks. Just because bad stuff happens in my favor doesn't make it good.
 

Ewert86PC said:
But it is a Ben Johnson issue. Ben's biggest skillset was touted as recruiting. Well, thanks to NIL, recruiting has changed drastically and I haven't seen any indication that Ben has adjusted his strength, recruiting, to keep pace with the changes.

His recruiting skills have been greatly diminished, while his other Head Coaching skills have not grown sufficiently to back up his place as a Power Conference coach.

You can argue that the $$$NIL issue isn't all his fault, and though that could be a fair point, the culture of the University and its administration handcuffed Ben from the start thanks to their aversion to economic renumeration at market rates.
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Fair enough....the general consensus among basically everyone on the board is if the team doesn't make the tournament in 24/25 he is going to be fired. So he has this one final season to figure it out and if he can't you can all pop the champagne next year when he is out the door and a new coach is brought in.

Then we can all see whether or not it really was just an issue with the coach or if it goes much deeper than that.

But until that time all we can really do is sit back and see how it all unfolds.
 

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