BREAKING: Elijah Hawkins to transfer

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alchemy2u said:
College Sports are broken and will soon going into a rapid decline. It needs to be fixed by installing rules on NIL money limits (just like all PRO leagues that have salary caps).

The Conference's /NCAA/Congress have got to build the rules that level the playing field so that all teams have the same limit on their pool of money to be spent on players NIL contracts and how much freshman/sophomores/juniors/seniors/grad can make each year. Also some limits on the number of times a player can use the portal/transfer (or sit out the season penalties).

The courts took the power away from the NCAA, now it has to somehow be reestablished a collection of power that can satisfy the courts.
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There is no way to do that that won't run afoul of something. You try and limit what a player can make they will unionize. There is no putting the genie back into this lamp the NCAA as we know it doesn't have the power or the authority to do anything any more.
 

bga1 said:
I agree but SS had to be defended there even though I get Mountaineer's situation and feel for him.
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I am not casting blame on anyone, just saying it doesn't belong here. As I said before lets focus on the things we agree on...mainly that we hate what is going on here. I dont want to know the political affiliations of my fellow fans nor do I want them to know mine.
 

MNVCGUY said:
If he quickly commits somewhere else it will be absolute proof of the tampering we all know is going on.
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How do you feel about the defensive end from Clemson who entered the portal yesterday morning and then committed to us pretty quickly? Obviously there's no proof and since he had committed to us last summer, it could be reasoned that he contacted us after entering, but the timing is still the timing. ;)
 


Dave H said:
There is no way to do that that won't run afoul of something. You try and limit what a player can make they will unionize. There is no putting the genie back into this lamp the NCAA as we know it doesn't have the power or the authority to do anything any more.
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The players unionizing would be an improvement at this point.
 


howeda7 said:
The players unionizing would be an improvement at this point.
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100%. Unless there's some form of standardizing contracts and collective bargaining that all parties agree to, anything the NCAA/colleges try to do will be shot down in the courts.
 

howeda7 said:
The players unionizing would be an improvement at this point.
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I think that is the ultimate end to this whole situation. if you look at the court cases the NCAA is losing left and right, they are all around anti-trust issues. the NLRB is taking a public stance that college athletes should be considered employees.

and that is where it all ends up. athletes are employees of the school. they can form unions and compensation can be collectively bargained. all compensation will come through the schools - both in revenue-sharing of TV money and NIL/pay for play money. that is the only way that some order is restored to major college sports - at least D1 power-conference football and basketball.

whether this is decided through the courts, or through legislative action, that is what I see as the end game.
 

Go Gophs said:
They compete in the Big Ten. Almost every year. They aren't an easy beat year in year out. PJ gets kids to stay and kids to come here. It's not even close comparing these 2 coaches. And he has done it with a program that can be argued as one of the worst power 5 football programs of all time.
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PJ is a mediocre and sometimes even poor game day coach. But he's a very good recruiter and program builder. Ben is an average recruiter at best and inept or incapable of the other two. The gap between them is massive.
 

As I wrote way back in early March according to my neighbors boyfriend both Payne and Hawkins would be on the portal
 



Dave H said:
I am not sure "sucks" covers it.

The thing is, I am not sure there is a solution to fix it. We all know the schools will never "hire" the players as employees because they won't want to deal with a players union, and we know the courts seem to have no interest in allowing college sports to be what it once was. Is there any sort of middle ground we can find that will make this all work?

Unlike football what made college basketball great was while there was haves and have nots even no name schools can make a run in the tourny. Sure you might not win, but who cares making the Sweet Sixteen or Elite Eight or Final Four is still a fantastic season! All it took was a couple really good players on a veteran team and you can pull a couple upsets and become a Cinderella. Everyone loved it because everyone legit had a chance. That is going to go away as now no team is going to be veteran enough to pull that off.
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I don’t think a players union, at the FBS or Big Ten level, is a concern at all.

What I think the big concern with players being actual (not just defacto) employees of the school is that employment law would then apply and require minimum wage, perhaps even benefits, etc.

Though there might be some already existing exemptions to employment law for eg. graduate student assistants, that could be leveraged.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Right because clearly this is just a Ben Johnson and Minnesota issue. Definitely not seeing tons of players jumping into the portal all over the country.

Look at the thread specifically dedicated to the Big Ten transfers. Michigan State, Northwestern, Oregon and Purdue are the only teams with less than 3 players in the portal right now.

There is very little loyalty and commitment from players across the country. A coaching change is no guarantee to help but if the team struggles in 24/25 we will get to find out.
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But Ben's recruiting skills (making connections and getting commitments) were the one thing that was touted as a reason to make him a training wheels coach in a Power 4/5/6 Conference. In-game coaching, game preparation, and public relations were supposed to be the things he would need more experience to be a serious head coach, and we were willing to give it to him. Those are the things that the modern landscape now holds as valuable.

Starting over with a coach who has strong aptitude at in-game coaching and game preparation is what the MBB team needs now. Recruiting is all dollar$ now.

Clean out the Barn.
 

Gopher-in-Keno said:
I keep hearing that the NCAA should have done something sooner. The NCAA and the Universities don't mind this new system at all. They found a way to get the players paid, without them paying!! The Gophers make 100M on the BTN contract (or whatever the figure is) whether they field a competitive team or not.
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100% true, but also 100% guaranteed that this won’t last.

One way or another, the players are coming for a chunk of that TV money.

Bank on it
 

MplsGopher said:
I don’t think a players union, at the FBS or Big Ten level, is a concern at all.

What I think the big concern with players being actual (not just defacto) employees of the school is that employment law would then apply and require minimum wage, perhaps even benefits, etc.

Though there might be some already existing exemptions to employment law for eg. graduate student assistants, that could be leveraged.
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They'd fall under workmans comp law too.
 



bga1 said:
I agree but SS had to be defended there even though I get Mountaineer's situation and feel for him.
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Why? He made a snarky, unnecessary, and off-topic comment. He can defend himself if he chooses to.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
I think that is the ultimate end to this whole situation. if you look at the court cases the NCAA is losing left and right, they are all around anti-trust issues. the NLRB is taking a public stance that college athletes should be considered employees.

and that is where it all ends up. athletes are employees of the school. they can form unions and compensation can be collectively bargained. all compensation will come through the schools - both in revenue-sharing of TV money and NIL/pay for play money. that is the only way that some order is restored to major college sports - at least D1 power-conference football and basketball.

whether this is decided through the courts, or through legislative action, that is what I see as the end game.
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The interesting question here, is does the bag man/booster part of the college sports economy remain, and how?

If I'm Rich Uncle Pennybags and I want Joe Cool to attend my alma mater Directional State U., I'm going to either give him a bag of money/new car/private jet etc. under the table, or I'm going to set up a no-show NIL "job" to ensure he gets paid extra to play there.

But that's not going to happen in the NFL. I can't pay Justin Jefferson under the table to play for the Seahawks instead of the Vikings because I'm a Seahawks fan. Nobody would even think of something so absurd in the NFL. Sure, there are better endorsement opportunities in certain markets, but there aren't crooked rich fans buying players for pro teams.

Would that go away? And how?
 


MNVCGUY said:
Look at the thread specifically dedicated to the Big Ten transfers. Michigan State, Northwestern, Oregon and Purdue are the only teams with less than 3 players in the portal right now.
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It’s well and good to keep bringing this point up. But at some point … don’t we need to get some new bodies actually in here??

Like, at least replacing all the bodies that have left?
 

Bad Gopher said:
It's the next float in the endless parade of money pits for the fans to throw their money down. We already pay a good amount for tickets. On top of that, they added the seat license "donations," which now you can no longer deduct from your taxes (when is a donation not a donation?). Then basically requiring people to pay to watch the games on TV, when they used to be over the air. Now we're getting turned upside down and shaken to see what still might be left in our pockets to pay for this bullshit. It's one thing to let players enjoy the preexisting fruits of their labor; it's another thing to keep shaking fans down for more and more of their hard-earned money.
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This isn't just for sports, this is the world right now. Normal people are being squeezed for their last penny while those sitting on top count their hundred dollar bills and those on bottom laugh at all of us for going to work while they sit back and collect for watching TV
 

disco said:
The interesting question here, is does the bag man/booster part of the college sports economy remain, and how?

If I'm Rich Uncle Pennybags and I want Joe Cool to attend my alma mater Directional State U., I'm going to either give him a bag of money/new car/private jet etc. under the table, or I'm going to set up a no-show NIL "job" to ensure he gets paid extra to play there.

But that's not going to happen in the NFL. I can't pay Justin Jefferson under the table to play for the Seahawks instead of the Vikings because I'm a Seahawks fan. Nobody would even think of something so absurd in the NFL. Sure, there are better endorsement opportunities in certain markets, but there aren't crooked rich fans buying players for pro teams.

Would that go away? And how?
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I don’t think that form of NIL “malfeasance” if you like is going away.

Why? Because of the remaining massive structural differences between the NFL and major college (say Big Ten and SEC).

- in the NFL, you’re drafted and you have absolutely no say in what team gets to take you. You go to that team and you sign a four year deal. Nothing you can do, it’s dictated.

- in major college, you have 100% freedom of choice to pick a school. And that really translated into a 100% black market for inducements to “pick” the school that the bagman wants you to pick.


Major college needs to go like the NFL in this way too
 

disco said:
The interesting question here, is does the bag man/booster part of the college sports economy remain, and how?

If I'm Rich Uncle Pennybags and I want Joe Cool to attend my alma mater Directional State U., I'm going to either give him a bag of money/new car/private jet etc. under the table, or I'm going to set up a no-show NIL "job" to ensure he gets paid extra to play there.

But that's not going to happen in the NFL. I can't pay Justin Jefferson under the table to play for the Seahawks instead of the Vikings because I'm a Seahawks fan. Nobody would even think of something so absurd in the NFL. Sure, there are better endorsement opportunities in certain markets, but there aren't crooked rich fans buying players for pro teams.

Would that go away? And how?
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I think that would require national legislation. make paying players under the table an actual crime - not just an NCAA rules violation. Of course, this would have to survive court challenges, but if it was done in conjunction with the NCAA adopting the new "athletes are employees" structure, I think it would be possible.

if under-the-table payments were illegal, then there could also be lots of tax implications - filing false business records, etc. make the penalties strong enough, and that could serve as a deterrent. besides, if Pennybags could make a direct donation to the school, and the school could use those funds to compensate athletes, that would - I think - lessen the need to go under the table.

and kudos for "Rich Uncle Pennybags." I wonder how many people get that reference.
 


short ornery norwegian said:
I think that would require national legislation. make paying players under the table an actual crime - not just an NCAA rules violation. Of course, this would have to survive court challenges, but if it was done in conjunction with the NCAA adopting the new "athletes are employees" structure, I think it would be possible.

if under-the-table payments were illegal, then there could also be lots of tax implications - filing false business records, etc. make the penalties strong enough, and that could serve as a deterrent. besides, if Pennybags could make a direct donation to the school, and the school could use those funds to compensate athletes, that would - I think - lessen the need to go under the table.

and kudos for "Rich Uncle Pennybags." I wonder how many people get that reference.
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It wouldn’t be under the table. There would be no crime.

You’d sign a bona fide (wink wink) NIL endorsement deal with the kid right in high school.

Absolutely no quid pro quo your honor! I swear! Now of course, the contract would contain certain language allowed it to be terminated under “circumstances” (ie. the kid didn’t go to the school).
 



short ornery norwegian said:
I think that would require national legislation. make paying players under the table an actual crime - not just an NCAA rules violation. Of course, this would have to survive court challenges, but if it was done in conjunction with the NCAA adopting the new "athletes are employees" structure, I think it would be possible.

if under-the-table payments were illegal, then there could also be lots of tax implications - filing false business records, etc. make the penalties strong enough, and that could serve as a deterrent. besides, if Pennybags could make a direct donation to the school, and the school could use those funds to compensate athletes, that would - I think - lessen the need to go under the table.

and kudos for "Rich Uncle Pennybags." I wonder how many people get that reference.
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Under-the-table payments have always been illegal if payments over $600 aren't reported to the IRS via 1099. It's near impossible to track, though. A bigger deterrent will be the eventual massive civil lawsuits when someone gets caught tampering and breaking contracts. That will come.
 

Jack jones said:
As I wrote way back in early March according to my neighbors boyfriend both Payne and Hawkins would be on the portal
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The portal is infinite. You cannot be on in it; you can only be in it. In fact, I wonder if people enter the portal or if the portal enters people 🤔

EDIT: Enters in a non-pornographic way that is
 
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Dave H said:
So now the excuse is that DTA is favoring football over basketball because of who runs it? That is how desperate for excuses we are? Well, first of all football should get more there is more players. Second, pretty sure football brings in more money. Third, football has a better track record and larger fanbase. So if you are right and DTA is somehow pushing more money one way or another it would seem they are pushing it the right way.

Ya know nothing is stopping a basketball booster from setting up his own deal...or donating to DTA and earmarking it for basketball. Where are all the people in the community who supposedly supported the Ben hiring and applauded it? Why arent they stepping up? I mean if we are to believe random people no one knows on the internet Hawkins was offered $250k to stay and turned it down so DTA is definitely doing what they can.
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It was more an observation and questioning if DTA is staffed properly.
 

Off-GridTNgopher said:
All time??? Multiple national championships say otherwise
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Count those if you want to, but I don't really count them when we were the only team that used players that weren't white.
I was also not alive yet.
 

atsgopher said:
I suppose it can be argued; and a monkey can fly out of my butt.

One of the worst power 5 programs of all time is a really niave statement. Are you just answering little bit emotionally here?

The NCAA credits us as 10th in football National Championships. We have 3rd most Big Ten titles.
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Live in that past if you want to. We were one of a handful of teams then that allowed players that weren't white to play.
I guess I should have said of recent past instead of all time.
 

Ski-U-Ham said:
The portal is infinite. You cannot be in it; you can only be in it. In fact, I wonder if people enter the portal or if the portal enters people 🤔

EDIT: Enters in a non-pornographic way that is
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The portal will assimilate you; resistance is futile!
 

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