Ben Johnson Reasonable Expectations

That pretty much matches my order of preference. First of all, I hope he does recruit 4 transfers instead of 3. He should abandon his reluctance (as he stated last summer), at least temporarily, to fill all 13 spots with scholarship players. He said something like "you can't keep 13 players happy" but no coach ever lost his job or the support of the fanbase because he didn't keep all 13 players happy.

I could be wrong but I suspect Johnson will want to give the substantial majority of front court minutes to Ihnen and Fox because they are short-timers, he owes them to some degree, and they each lost a year due to unfortunate injuries. Because of that, it may make more sense to recruit a younger transfer big man who showed some potential in his first year but is willing to come off the bench until he's an upperclassman.
I am hoping that the interest in not using all 13 spots was limited to not wanting to recruit even more transfers from the portal as one and dones. I seem to recall that he also talked about balancing classes so hope that this played some part in his decision last year.

I also hope that seeing the impact of no bench and injuries on the team this year will illustrate the need to have a few more warm bodies available.
 

This type of mentality from Ben is what really bothers me. Because Ben is a good guy and seemingly a people pleaser, he seems more concerned about keeping players happy.

It's his job to field the most competitive team possible. Fleck has consistently said since he arrived that he's going to continue to try and out recruit the players already on the team. That breeds a competitive and winning culture.

If you don't like being at the end of the bench, work harder. And if players transfer because they weren't good enough to play, so what? Go recruit better players. That's why he was hired.

The quote was in response to a question about how recruiting has changed throughout the years. As in the days of keeping 13 players happy is over. Not his mentality about roster management. Not surprising you took it out of context and ran with it though.
 

In terms of "reasonable expectations", this to me is 100% what I mean. Below is the list of schools that 247 has listed for Taison Chatman. Those are the schools I expect Ben to beat for local kids. Those are good programs but not the top of the top. I think we would all love the Jones'/Brown/Suggs/Chet/Hurt's of the world to come here, but when KU/UNC/Duke/Gonz come calling I get it, those are at a different level. When you hire a coach and your schtick is that he is going to get local kids, this is 100% the teams they need to beat for them. I can buy that he didnt have time to get King/Watson away, but Chatman will now be 3 years out, he is a must get in my opinion.

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From that list it's Iowa State and Marquette that sre the biggest competition, Iowa State more then Marquette right now. With Iowa State, they have Lipsey, and King so if he really wants to be the lead PG, not that those guys should scare him off, it's more likely to happen here, if anything Ben's been setting his roster's up from day one by taking GT's for that to happen. Things are always fluid in that world especially with another summer of AAU, but sounds like were sitting pretty with Chatman.
 

Thompson's development is a huge wild card in the short and long term for the program. If he can pack on some lbs and become a viable post threat that can also step back and hit some 3s he becomes a really valuable player.

Yes, of course, I'm just saying that he didn't look like even a developing version of that type of player as a freshman. This kid (Mo Njie) who was a freshman at Eastern Michigan and entered the portal about a week and a half ago looks more like a developing version of that type of player (except for the threes although he did make four of the eight 3 pointers he took on the season).
 

I also hope that seeing the impact of no bench and injuries on the team this year will illustrate the need to have a few more warm bodies available.

Amen! Having such a limited roster in his first year under the recruiting conditions of last summer is forgivable. Having a roster that is too limited in year 2 justifiably will provoke considerable annoyance.
 


As for next year, I would like to see progress in the conference win-loss record, we won four last year, would like to see us win 7-9 next year. If we are say 9-2 in non con and 8-12 in league play next year heading to the BTT, I would take that I think for the roster next year for minutes I would say

  • Jamison Battle, could see him on some pre season all big ten lists, probably be mostly at the three spot playing 34-36 a night
  • Pharrell Payne, he will be a five and there will be some growing pains but as a Freshman I would expect 20-25 a night
  • Treyton Thompson, if he continues to put on good weight, after the Rutgers game Ben mentioned he had put on 20 lbs since the summer, if he can put on another 15-20 pounds and get up to 225-230, I think he can give the 15-20 minutes at the five. Him and Payne once they develop could be a nice yin and yang at that spot.
  • Parker Fox, It's hard to say, but he was as coveted as Battle in the portal, defensively if healthy I think he's athletic enough to guard the three or the four spot, I am going to say 25-30 a night. could be more if he has to play small ball five.
  • Isiah Ihnen, I see him as a 10-15 minute guy off the bench
  • Carrington I think starting out will see him in the 15-20 minute range
  • Hedley/Ola-Joseph Might see one of them take a rotation in the first half to give Battle a breather
  • Obviously we need a starting PG, maybe a secondary ballhandler too, unless tey think Carrington or Hedley can do that
  • There's also a need for starter at the two spot, someone who can give 25-30 minutes a night, perhaps a certain grad transfer from Davidson or a certain Hopkins grad at UNC could fill that spot.
  • If Dawson Garcia transferring is truly the worst kept secret at Charlie's on Prior then that would obviously change the minutes at the four and five spots and probably have a ripple effect at the three spot as well.
  • All in all we need a solid nine man rotation to compete in this league, you can always shrink it down to seven in March, but you need nine, maybe ten for the big ten and then have guys like Hedley, JOJ or even Thompson who might not be getting minutes, but you can't be afraid to throw them into the 8-10 spots if there's an injury, illness or someone in a bad slump. Right now I trust Battle, right now I would trust everyone I listed in the role that I listed them at, but right now wouldn't want Carrington playing 30 minutes a night, I think I can get there with Parker if he's healthy, but German KD I see as a bench guy right now. Obviously I would trust Garcia, Walton and Jones, but they've got to enter the portal and want to come here first.
 

The quote was in response to a question about how recruiting has changed throughout the years. As in the days of keeping 13 players happy is over. Not his mentality about roster management. Not surprising you took it out of context and ran with it though.

Because players never transferred before COVID...
 

  • There's also a need for starter at the two spot, someone who can give 25-30 minutes a night, perhaps a certain grad transfer from Davidson or a certain Hopkins grad at UNC could fill that spot.
  • If Dawson Garcia transferring is truly the worst kept secret at Charlie's on Prior then that would obviously change the minutes at the four and five spots and probably have a ripple effect at the three spot as well.

I agree with pretty much everything you stated, but I have concerns with these two points. Garcia is a high end talent, and would help significantly, but he has to get things figured out off of the court. Up and leaving your team in the middle of the season with little notice, raises some eyebrows.

I liked Walton and was hoping he would be a Gopher coming out of high school. But Walton doesn't play anymore. I'm not sure we could just pencil someone in for 25-30 minutes per game who had a nice bench role as a Freshman, and now doesn't play anymore as a sophomore.

UNC is now in the Final Four, and they drastically improved after Garcia left and Walton was benched. That is a big cause for concern for me with both of them, especially when Ben is all about culture.
 

I agree with pretty much everything you stated, but I have concerns with these two points. Garcia is a high end talent, and would help significantly, but he has to get things figured out off of the court. Up and leaving your team in the middle of the season with little notice, raises some eyebrows.

I liked Walton and was hoping he would be a Gopher coming out of high school. But Walton doesn't play anymore. I'm not sure we could just pencil someone in for 25-30 minutes per game who had a nice bench role as a Freshman, and now doesn't play anymore as a sophomore.

UNC is now in the Final Four, and they drastically improved after Garcia left and Walton was benched. That is a big cause for concern for me with both of them, especially when Ben is all about culture.
I think that has a lot less to do with Garcia/Walton and more to do with the level of talent that UNC brings in every single year. Garcia and Walton are great players but when you constantly have other 4-5 star athletes coming in you run the risk of dropping down the depth chart.
 



I think that has a lot less to do with Garcia/Walton and more to do with the level of talent that UNC brings in every single year. Garcia and Walton are great players but when you constantly have other 4-5 star athletes coming in you run the risk of dropping down the depth chart.
I would take Walton in a heart beat but he was also pretty bad at UNC last year. He was pretty darn good as a FR. His problem is that he doesn't do anything really well except shoot and he wasn't shooting well last year. Don't get wrong, I'd take him but he wasn't playing very good basketball at UNC.
 

I would take Walton in a heart beat but he was also pretty bad at UNC last year. He was pretty darn good as a FR. His problem is that he doesn't do anything really well except shoot and he wasn't shooting well last year. Don't get wrong, I'd take him but he wasn't playing very good basketball at UNC.
He'd be a luxury 6th man. Having a guy that can come out and drain a few three...instant offense, is a good thing.
 

I would take Walton in a heart beat but he was also pretty bad at UNC last year. He was pretty darn good as a FR. His problem is that he doesn't do anything really well except shoot and he wasn't shooting well last year. Don't get wrong, I'd take him but he wasn't playing very good basketball at UNC.

I would take him too, I just don't think he's someone you can rely on to start and play 25-30 minutes on even a bubble level team.

This team needs at minimum two transfer guards to start next year who have proven they can score and handle the basketball at a high level in college. Walton hasn't done that.
 

Oh it will be seen as an excuse, you can bank on that from a particular poster that I put on ignore and have not regretted doing so one bit.

I take him off ignore from time to time to see if I am missing anything interesting and everytime it just confirms I made the right call in taking advantage of the ignore feature. :)
The excuse maker surfaces.
 



I agree with pretty much everything you stated, but I have concerns with these two points. Garcia is a high end talent, and would help significantly, but he has to get things figured out off of the court. Up and leaving your team in the middle of the season with little notice, raises some eyebrows.

I liked Walton and was hoping he would be a Gopher coming out of high school. But Walton doesn't play anymore. I'm not sure we could just pencil someone in for 25-30 minutes per game who had a nice bench role as a Freshman, and now doesn't play anymore as a sophomore.

UNC is now in the Final Four, and they drastically improved after Garcia left and Walton was benched. That is a big cause for concern for me with both of them, especially when Ben is all about culture.
I think those are all fair points, I believe Dawson left because of some family illnesses. He just lost his Grandma and I think he came home because his father was in the hospital, I think that's pretty understandable and he could get a waiver to play if he stays home.

As for Kerwin, he was starting at the end of last year and I've noticed Hubert been playing seven, sometimes six in his post season rotations. Walton's percentages were still solid, I'd be willing to gamble on him, but I saw on twitter Mike Jones just entered the portal, I believe he technically has two years eligibility, so will see what happens.
 

I think Fox will be a huge factor for this team, his entire game is around the basket based on everything I have seen and that is something this team desperately needs.

Thompson's development is a huge wild card in the short and long term for the program. If he can pack on some lbs and become a viable post threat that can also step back and hit some 3s he becomes a really valuable player. Just a matter of how his game develops and how quickly it happens (if at all). Big guys in basketball are a lot like lineman in football, takes some time for them to mature and reach their full potential in many cases.
Adding weight and strength will not be a problem for TT if he is willing to do the work. He can be expected to play next year with a big man body. But rebounding and tough post defense is as much mental attitude as superior size. He has viewed himself as a wing and three point shooter, not a tough post player.

His playing time next year will depend on his mentality. We will have plenty of wings and shooters. If he comes back as a shot blocker at the rim and tough rebounder he will be a key guy. That would also give Payne time to work in.
 

I agree with pretty much everything you stated, but I have concerns with these two points. Garcia is a high end talent, and would help significantly, but he has to get things figured out off of the court. Up and leaving your team in the middle of the season with little notice, raises some eyebrows.

I liked Walton and was hoping he would be a Gopher coming out of high school. But Walton doesn't play anymore. I'm not sure we could just pencil someone in for 25-30 minutes per game who had a nice bench role as a Freshman, and now doesn't play anymore as a sophomore.

UNC is now in the Final Four, and they drastically improved after Garcia left and Walton was benched. That is a big cause for concern for me with both of them, especially when Ben is all about culture.
Agreed -

Regarding Battle, I am guessing he will be defended really well next season, unless the MN roster has enough other weapons to score. If not, .....
 

Adding weight and strength will not be a problem for TT if he is willing to do the work. He can be expected to play next year with a big man body. But rebounding and tough post defense is as much mental attitude as superior size. He has viewed himself as a wing and three point shooter, not a tough post player.

His playing time next year will depend on his mentality. We will have plenty of wings and shooters. If he comes back as a shot blocker at the rim and tough rebounder he will be a key guy. That would also give Payne time to work in.
TT's mentality was quite good when he played 40 against Rutgers.
 

Adding weight and strength will not be a problem for TT if he is willing to do the work. He can be expected to play next year with a big man body. But rebounding and tough post defense is as much mental attitude as superior size. He has viewed himself as a wing and three point shooter, not a tough post player.

His playing time next year will depend on his mentality. We will have plenty of wings and shooters. If he comes back as a shot blocker at the rim and tough rebounder he will be a key guy. That would also give Payne time to work in.
Yep, this is a huge off season for Thompson. Hopefully he does the things the coaches want him to do and puts himself in a position to be a factor for this team next year and beyond. Will be interesting to see how he looks and how he plays when next season rolls around.

Fans can be too quick to write players off when they don't come in and succeed right away. Still lots of time for him to develop into a solid player at the college level, but it is clear that he has a long way to go.
 

I am hoping that the interest in not using all 13 spots was limited to not wanting to recruit even more transfers from the portal as one and dones. I seem to recall that he also talked about balancing classes so hope that this played some part in his decision last year.

I also hope that seeing the impact of no bench and injuries on the team this year will illustrate the need to have a few more warm bodies available.
There is a need to balance classes. That is a smart strategy. We saw that warm bodies do not translate into basketball players and a viable bench.

Johnson did a good job in the portal his first year with thee very good transfers and three more solid ones. His miss was not getting a good post player for interior defense and rebounding.

I don't expect we will get three portal guys this year as good as Willis, Battle, and Fox.
 

Adding weight and strength will not be a problem for TT if he is willing to do the work. He can be expected to play next year with a big man body. But rebounding and tough post defense is as much mental attitude as superior size. He has viewed himself as a wing and three point shooter, not a tough post player.

His playing time next year will depend on his mentality. We will have plenty of wings and shooters. If he comes back as a shot blocker at the rim and tough rebounder he will be a key guy. That would also give Payne time to work in.
I'm not too worried about it, sounds like Treyton showed up at 195 and put on 20 lbs last off season and before that he was 170 when he went off to Prep school. I always hang out for a little bit after games and I've seen him come up right after a game multiple times and put up shots, so if anything one thing I'm not going to worry about with Treyton is work ethic, if it doesn't work out it certainly won't be for lack of trying
 

I agree with pretty much everything you stated, but I have concerns with these two points. Garcia is a high end talent, and would help significantly, but he has to get things figured out off of the court. Up and leaving your team in the middle of the season with little notice, raises some eyebrows.

I liked Walton and was hoping he would be a Gopher coming out of high school. But Walton doesn't play anymore. I'm not sure we could just pencil someone in for 25-30 minutes per game who had a nice bench role as a Freshman, and now doesn't play anymore as a sophomore.

UNC is now in the Final Four, and they drastically improved after Garcia left and Walton was benched. That is a big cause for concern for me with both of them, especially when Ben is all about culture.
Garcia's dad was on his death bed. It was ok he left.
 

Hey, people can have different points of view.

I just don't think Thompson is ever going to be the type of post player that a lot of fans want him to be.

some of that is physical and some of that is psychological.

I watch Thompson and he just doesn't play or react like "a big man."

I think he sees himself as a finesse player and a shooter - not a banger who is going to mix it up in the post.

and that's fine. he can be a productive player in that role.

the risk is in trying to force him into a mold that he doesn't fit.

let Thompson be who he wants to be, and go out and find someone else who wants to bang in the post.
 

Garcia's dad was on his death bed. It was ok he left.

I'm not saying it's not, but that is a part of his life he needs to take care of before playing basketball again.

I'm more concerned that Marquette was better without Garcia this year and made the tournament under a first year head coach. UNC was better this year without Garcia or Walton on the court.
 

I'm not saying it's not, but that is a part of his life he needs to take care of before playing basketball again.

I'm more concerned that Marquette was better without Garcia this year and made the tournament under a first year head coach. UNC was better this year without Garcia or Walton on the court.
Dad's apparently out of the hospital and on the road to recovery so I do give him a pass this year. UNC was better once they settled their rotation no doubt. It just goes to show how important fit is.
 

More than anything? Our lack of size was biggest detriment in rebounds.
For the most part, our guys lacked typical BIG bodies, quickness and vertical. Murphy and dad Coffey were great example of players who was great on the boards despite lack of height. They had great hands, "twitch" and explosiveness.

IMO, TT will never be a great rebounder as he lacks the essentials.
 

Hey, people can have different points of view.

I just don't think Thompson is ever going to be the type of post player that a lot of fans want him to be.

some of that is physical and some of that is psychological.

I watch Thompson and he just doesn't play or react like "a big man."

I think he sees himself as a finesse player and a shooter - not a banger who is going to mix it up in the post.

and that's fine. he can be a productive player in that role.

the risk is in trying to force him into a mold that he doesn't fit.

let Thompson be who he wants to be, and go out and find someone else who wants to bang in the post.
I agree that he should probably not play the post. However, I was impressed with his willingness and ability to defend the post given his lack of mass.

I don't think he has a back to the basket game though, but Curry really didn't either.
 

I agree that he should probably not play the post. However, I was impressed with his willingness and ability to defend the post given his lack of mass.

I don't think he has a back to the basket game though, but Curry really didn't either.
He would obviously be better at defending the post when he has more lbs, but I actually liked him much better in the post than when he was defending 4s. He needs to add bulk to take up more space, but he is pretty active for a 7 footer and I think he's a 5 and all of his minutes should come at the 5.
 

For the most part, our guys lacked typical BIG bodies, quickness and vertical. Murphy and dad Coffey were great example of players who was great on the boards despite lack of height. They had great hands, "twitch" and explosiveness.

IMO, TT will never be a great rebounder as he lacks the essentials.
Maybe TT will never be a great rebounder. He will lack explosiveness and the quick lift no matter how strong he gets. But with a big body and 6'11 height he could be a decent rebounder if he becomes dogged and tenacious. That is mental.

Dusty Rychart had a vertical of about 18 inches but worked hard and was a decent rebounder. Mark Oberding couldn't jump out of his shoes but just just flat mean on the boards. Richard Coffee and Jordan Murphy are not coming our way very often. But with the right athletes we can be an across-the-board decent rebounding team and smother the easy shots we gave away last season on the inside.
 


He would obviously be better at defending the post when he has more lbs, but I actually liked him much better in the post than when he was defending 4s. He needs to add bulk to take up more space, but he is pretty active for a 7 footer and I think he's a 5 and all of his minutes should come at the 5.
I agree his only real future is at 5. He could actually be a great post player because he takes the opposing big man away from the basket. That we already know. The question is can he toughen up mentally enough to play defense against the other team's big man.
 




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