Ben Johnson Reasonable Expectations

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Lion King said:
Why does everyone think a D 2 guy is a given starter ? I HOPE SO, but let's see if any of these guys can play. IHNEN same thing.
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Fifty coaches thought he could help their team. That's starting material for a down team like Minnesota. Plus his skills fit our most glaring needs: interior scoring, rebounding, and shot blocking. Not a lot of aggressive guys that tall with a 40 inch lift.
 

BarnBurner said:
Agreed - and, if you recall, other posters have suggested the rebounding strategy from 21-22 may likely be carried over into next season. Recipe for losses, imo.
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That strategy will not be carried over. We will have rebounders and team depth to be able to run back on defense.
 

bga1 said:
If you pick up 4 transfers and make the tournament- then great I'm happy with that as long as the 4 frosh are showing potential. If we are going to pick up 4 transfers, not play the frosh a ton and finish with 5- 7 Big Ten wins, that's a big step backwards. That's not developing anything, that's just putting a bandage on top of another. Play the kids and be ready for the tournament year 3. We got Ben to be a developmental coach that builds long term stability, he's not going to get high end transfers anyway unless they are coming home.
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You just went from needing at least one freshman starting to four freshmen never playing. There's a lot of room between those two points.
 

Dakota2 said:
That strategy will not be carried over. We will have rebounders and team depth to be able to run back on defense.
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Again, not my hope - others here have suggested it may be carried over to next season.
 

Dakota2 said:
That strategy will not be carried over. We will have rebounders and team depth to be able to run back on defense.
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I have no idea who these others who say that will happen. Some (myself) have justified it for the past season. I like you think it's very unlikely we'd see it next year.
 


MNVCGUY said:
Why were you surprised we didn't pick up any extra high school recruits last year? High School recruiting relationships are built over years. Ben wasn't a head coach so he would have been highly unlikely to have high school recruits want to follow him from one school to the next.

People always want to bring up ISU. Their coach didn't pick up any new high school recruits after he was hired either, he just hung onto the one commitment they had while going out and getting a bunch of transfers to fill the remaining open spots.
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This! At the late date he was hired how could you expect to pick up any decent High School recruit. Rebounding strategy is brought up that’s a new one. The Gophers were undersized and inferior athletically in ever Big Ten game on the boards . The team overachieved in wins My only real disappointment was not getting a couple transfers that were Power Five type talent.
 
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Gopherfan84 said:
I have no idea who these others who say that will happen. Some (myself) have justified it for the past season. I like you think it's very unlikely we'd see it next year.
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Your own post:

"I highly doubt we fall back at the rate we did this year but I don’t know or have an idea yet. The roster still needs to be filled. Truthfully maybe this strategy wins us more games? It will depend on the construction of the roster. If we only win 4 B1G games then I would be willing to agree that it was a “failed season”. Rebounding stats are just a part of it"

No idea, indeed.
 

Dakota2 said:
You just went from needing at least one freshman starting to four freshmen never playing. There's a lot of room between those two points.
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You are having some difficulty reading here. I described three possible outcomes over the two posts:

Scenario one: Play the frosh a lot (at least a few of them) and take our lumps and be ready for a tourney run the following year. I am good with this.
Scenario two: Recruit a boffo class of transfers, play the frosh some, with them showing promise and make the tournament next year. I am good with this also.
Scenario three: Recruit transfers and play them heavily because they are better than our frosh. Win 5-7 games and not show potential for the following year. This scenario I don't like at all and it would mean that our recruiting class (in an age where a lot of frosh play) was likely a failure.
 

BarnBurner said:
Your own post:

"I highly doubt we fall back at the rate we did this year but I don’t know or have an idea yet. The roster still needs to be filled. Truthfully maybe this strategy wins us more games? It will depend on the construction of the roster. If we only win 4 B1G games then I would be willing to agree that it was a “failed season”. Rebounding stats are just a part of it"

No idea, indeed.
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That’s the line you take/comprehend out of that whole paragraph…If it makes you feel any better it was suppose to be “won us more games”. I wrote the the wrong tense and sincerely apologize. The other lack of comprehension is on you.
 



bga1 said:
You are having some difficulty reading here. I described three possible outcomes over the two posts:

Scenario one: Play the frosh a lot (at least a few of them) and take our lumps and be ready for a tourney run the following year. I am good with this.
Scenario two: Recruit a boffo class of transfers, play the frosh some, with them showing promise and make the tournament next year. I am good with this also.
Scenario three: Recruit transfers and play them heavily because they are better than our frosh. Win 5-7 games and not show potential for the following year. This scenario I don't like at all and it would mean that our recruiting class (in an age where a lot of frosh play) was likely a failure.
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I read fine. And you write better the second time around. Thanks for clarifying.
 

Gopherfan84 said:
That’s the line you take/comprehend out of that whole paragraph…If it makes you feel any better it was suppose to be “won us more games”. I wrote the the wrong tense and sincerely apologize. The other lack of comprehension is on you.
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Not quite, sport - that's the line that you wrote, er didnt write, er didnt mean......well, own it.

So, thanks, my comprehension is very good. You, on the other hand, cant quite recall what you wrote, er what you mean, er.......

No idea, indeed.
 
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BarnBurner said:
Not quite, sport - that's the line that you wrote, er didnt write, er didnt mean......well, own it.

So, thanks, my comprehension is very good. You, on the other hand, cant quite recall what you wtoe, er what you mean, er.......

No idea, indeed.
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Even in the present tense, it still doesn’t fit your narrative or speak well of comprehension. If you literally read what I wrote you will see I don’t say that I think the staff will continue it next year. It’s literally the first sentence. Also the fact you are using that line in arguments with others who wrote similar things to mine also proves the point. Good job of playing the “gotcha” game though. 🤡🤡🤡🤡
 

on the roster construction/management:

I may be 100% wrong, but I suspect that Johnson & Co. came in here, got the lay of the land and decided they had two basic routes to follow:

#1: focus their attention on getting in the best players for immediate success and try to win right away.

#2: get in enough bodies to make it through the year, and then spend most of their time planning for future recruiting classes and future success.

Based on the results, I suspect they chose #2. Now, no coach would ever admit it, but I suspect that they made a choice to look to the future, even if that meant they didn't win a lot of games right away.

right choice - wrong choice? that will only become clear as we watch things play out.
 




short ornery norwegian said:
on the roster construction/management:

I may be 100% wrong, but I suspect that Johnson & Co. came in here, got the lay of the land and decided they had two basic routes to follow:

#1: focus their attention on getting in the best players for immediate success and try to win right away.

#2: get in enough bodies to make it through the year, and then spend most of their time planning for future recruiting classes and future success.

Based on the results, I suspect they chose #2. Now, no coach would ever admit it, but I suspect that they made a choice to look to the future, even if that meant they didn't win a lot of games right away.

right choice - wrong choice? that will only become clear as we watch things play out.
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You are 100% right. It was either win right now or concentrate on the future. They chose the latter. The future begins now. This year needs to be much better. Much better could play out by producing a lot more wins or much better could play out by showing that the future of the young guys is bright...or both.
 



ecoperson said:
I always believe that people are well-intentioned and am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. There are a lot of people in this world that don't fit the mold. I am never going to give up on anyone just because they don't fit in.
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Best of luck to you. I get the sentiment but there is enough track record there with Barn Burner to feel confident in saying you are wasting your time.
 

Dakota2 said:
Minnesota has adequate resources to compete. Success in attracting better players is built through winning. When a program has run down to the level where we are now that is a difficult job and progress will be slow.

We will have more talent and depth next year, translating to more wins and higher attraction for recruits. Ben's job is to build on that every year. The reality is everyone else is working to get better too.

Working to improve fan engagement is a good thing. Thanks for the effort. Don't waste your time worrying about harmless fools like Barny.
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My response regarding writing checks to the athletic department is my standard reply to those who complain about this program hiring on the cheap. If they want a different coach with a pedigree, they need to open up their vaults and start throwing money around. If not, they need to be prepared to weather the storm.

I am trying to work with the team to ensure that these fan engagement opportunities do not run afoul of NCAA rules. I think there are some opportunities to have some fun with this. Stay tuned!
 

MNVCGUY said:
Best of luck to you. I get the sentiment but there is enough track record there with Barn Burner to feel confident in saying you are wasting your time.
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If I make a response to BB and one other poster gains something from it, I have not wasted my time.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
on the roster construction/management:

I may be 100% wrong, but I suspect that Johnson & Co. came in here, got the lay of the land and decided they had two basic routes to follow:

#1: focus their attention on getting in the best players for immediate success and try to win right away.

#2: get in enough bodies to make it through the year, and then spend most of their time planning for future recruiting classes and future success.

Based on the results, I suspect they chose #2. Now, no coach would ever admit it, but I suspect that they made a choice to look to the future, even if that meant they didn't win a lot of games right away.

right choice - wrong choice? that will only become clear as we watch things play out.
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What I think is interesting about last year is that from a transfer standpoint it 100% looked on the surface like they were going for option 2 and looking to the future by bringing in a number of 1 year guys.

Ben's in game coaching however really gave off the impression of someone trying to do whatever they can to win now.

We didn't get to see the impact Fox might have had on this season. I know he is just 1 guy but if he came in and had the same level of impact that Battle and Willis had you would suddenly have had a team with 3 really good starters and some nice complementary pieces around them.

I am really curious to see Fox in action next year. He was highly sought after in the portal, and I don't think it is a massive stretch to think he would have been an instant impact player for us who would have gone a long way towards addressing a lot of the major issues facing this team (scoring at the rim, rebounding, low post defense....).

But that is all water under the bridge at this point. Time to look forward and see what Johnson is able to do with this program over the next few years.
 

ecoperson said:
If I make a response to BB and one other poster gains something from it, I have not wasted my time.
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I used to feel similar but then I realized it just wasn't worth it and put the ignore feature to good use. Amazing how much more enjoyable this board is now.
 
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short ornery norwegian said:
on the roster construction/management:

I may be 100% wrong, but I suspect that Johnson & Co. came in here, got the lay of the land and decided they had two basic routes to follow:

#1: focus their attention on getting in the best players for immediate success and try to win right away.

#2: get in enough bodies to make it through the year, and then spend most of their time planning for future recruiting classes and future success.

Based on the results, I suspect they chose #2. Now, no coach would ever admit it, but I suspect that they made a choice to look to the future, even if that meant they didn't win a lot of games right away.

right choice - wrong choice? that will only become clear as we watch things play out.
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I think he approached with balance and did pretty well on both sides. He got three good transfers and three more who played well despite needing to play a lot bigger role than their talents suggested. Jury is out on the freshman recruits but it seems a decent class.
 


Gopherfan84 said:
Even in the present tense, it still doesn’t fit your narrative or speak well of comprehension. If you literally read what I wrote you will see I don’t say that I think the staff will continue it next year. It’s literally the first sentence. Also the fact you are using that line in arguments with others who wrote similar things to mine also proves the point. Good job of playing the “gotcha” game though. 🤡🤡🤡🤡
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There is no gotcha, you wrote what you wrote and are making excuses(surprise) and walking it back quickly.

Fail.
 

ecoperson said:
I always believe that people are well-intentioned and am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. There are a lot of people in this world that don't fit the mold. I am never going to give up on anyone just because they don't fit in.
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If you dont fit in the mold and go along with the masses, all is not well for some snowflakes on GH. A few above.

And, if you dont follow the masses, you want the program and the coach to fail. The evidence is overwhelming right in this thread.
 

ecoperson said:
My response regarding writing checks to the athletic department is my standard reply to those who complain about this program hiring on the cheap. If they want a different coach with a pedigree, they need to open up their vaults and start throwing money around. If not, they need to be prepared to weather the storm.

I am trying to work with the team to ensure that these fan engagement opportunities do not run afoul of NCAA rules. I think there are some opportunities to have some fun with this. Stay tuned!
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Preparation is one thing, this is quite different.

This storm has lasted 25 years. Perhaps longer if you believe the games in the mid to late 90's never happened.
 

Ogee Oglethorpe said:
Are you trying to say that this is almost always followed by an overly condescending comment, often a strong opinion stated to be as fact?
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Bingo! And even if the statement is true, it's not like some of the general audience doesn't grasp it already.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Why were you surprised we didn't pick up any extra high school recruits last year? High School recruiting relationships are built over years. Ben wasn't a head coach so he would have been highly unlikely to have high school recruits want to follow him from one school to the next.

People always want to bring up ISU. Their coach didn't pick up any new high school recruits after he was hired either, he just hung onto the one commitment they had while going out and getting a bunch of transfers to fill the remaining open spots.
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Yes Ben was hurt in that area by not bringing recruits with him.

I thought he might get 1-2 recruits because literally every spot on the roster was open besides Ihnen/Thompson. I didn't even mention ISU. There are always players getting released from their commitments after coaches are fired (think Kenny Pohto last year) or because they are hanging around hoping for a high major offer (Greenlee/Freeman).

Yes most recruits commit after building a relationship. The guys who sign late in the spring are often just waiting for a chance to get a better offer and are less about long term relationships. We have signed recruits like Isaiah Ihnen, Jordan Murphy, Sam Freeman, Bryan Greenlee, and David Mutaf in April/May/June just in the last few years. Not a great hit rate on those recruits, but Greenlee has proven to be a solid contributor at Florida A&M and I would have taken Freeman over Charlie Daniels/Danny Ogele this year.

I'm saying rather than take a bunch of grad transfers and walk-ons and have a scholarship go unused, grab a guy tryout. Best case scenario is a Murphy type. If he doesn't work out like Mutaf/Freeman/Greenlee, they can move on in 1-2 years. If the guy sticks around, you have 1 more guy trained in your "culture" and then you don't have to fill 8 spots the next year.

Slightly related note, I think this is kinda what may have happened with Thiam. He went JUCO to get better offers I believe, had some low major offers, but was able to snag a chance to prove himself in the B10. It looks like he probably won't work out but I'm glad we took the shot. Haha maybe I'm arguing against myself at this point. Sorry for the essay.
 

BarnBurner said:
Not quite, sport - that's the line that you wrote, er didnt write, er didnt mean......well, own it.

So, thanks, my comprehension is very good. You, on the other hand, cant quite recall what you wrote, er what you mean, er.......

No idea, indeed.
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BarnBurner said:
If you dont fit in the mold and go along with the masses, all is not well for some snowflakes on GH. A few above.

And, if you dont follow the masses, you want the program and the coach to fail. The evidence is overwhelming right in this thread.
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One of your many problems is you skew people's arguments, turn everything into black and white issue.
 

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