Ben Johnson is a Disaster

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Despite the horrid end to the season, I think there was improvement. It's make or break for Johnson next year but I think with the talent he has accumulated, he has a legit shot at putting out a pretty good team. The end of the year felt like previous seasons, but I had moments of the season where I genuinely was enjoying watching Gopher basketball.

I've been firmly in the camp with the critics of the hiring and the performance so far, but I'll give CBJ his due that this season was better. I hope he proves me wrong. He is an easy guy to root for.
 

MNVCGUY said:
A case can definitely be made for pulling the plug now but the reality is he is going to get another year unless there is once again major roster turnover this off season. If this group stays together I am behind the idea of giving it one more year. If we will be looking at a total rebuild again cut your losses and move on.
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Nobody has more "ifs" than Mnvcguy. Nobody.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
BJ after 3 years:
40-53 overall
15-44 during the B1G regular season
18-14 in year three with the weakest schedule over the past 2 decades.
Finished 1-5 over the final 6 games, and lost 4 of those by double digits. Gave up over 100 in the other loss by 8.
No NCAA tournament appearances, and likely no postseason play over 3 years.
Wins over ranked teams: 0
Wins over rivals Iowa/Wisconsin: 0
Attendance has been at all time lows.

The only schools where this earns you a 4th season, are at schools who don't care about winning.
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All of this evidence really exemplifies it.

Look it's OK that we tried Ben. It's OK that Ben didn't work out. Just move on and don't make the same mistake.

If you want to be competitive, you've got to bring in a resume-based competitive coach.

Stick to the process of how you hired the below coaches. Even then it may not work out, but it's a hell of a lot more likely.

The Fleck hire was solid on evidence of past success.
The Motzko hire was solid on evidence of past success.
The Volleyball coach hire appears solid based on evidence of past success. Time will tell.
The new Womens basketball coach Dawn appears solid based on evidence of past success. Time will tell.

Even Whalen had a history of winning and I supported that hire (Further exemplifies a history of past success in coaching helps)
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Despite the horrid end to the season, I think there was improvement. It's make or break for Johnson next year but I think with the talent he has accumulated, he has a legit shot at putting out a pretty good team. The end of the year felt like previous seasons, but I had moments of the season where I genuinely was enjoying watching Gopher basketball.

I've been firmly in the camp with the critics of the hiring and the performance so far, but I'll give CBJ his due that this season was better. I hope he proves me wrong. He is an easy guy to root for.
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Well said. I’ll tip the hat and acknowledge the progress and hope.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Obviously if this is the high water mark that is a problem but if the team is consistently finishing at least .500 in conference play that would represent a level of success this program has not experienced for quite some time.

The team went 6-14 in conference play and the trajectory of the program was not good in Pitino's 8th year which is why he got fired. I could give a crap what KenPom says, the program is trending in the right direction after 2 rough years. As long as that continues Ben will be the coach, if the team slips back in the other direction he will get fired.
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The problem with saying that you “don’t give a crap” about statistics, measurables, and metics but rather a subjective personal idea if the team is moving forward, is rather obvious.
 


GopherWeatherGuy said:
BJ after 3 years:
40-53 overall
15-44 during the B1G regular season
18-14 in year three with the weakest schedule over the past 2 decades.
Finished 1-5 over the final 6 games, and lost 4 of those by double digits. Gave up over 100 in the other loss by 8.
No NCAA tournament appearances, and likely no postseason play over 3 years.
Wins over ranked teams: 0
Wins over rivals Iowa/Wisconsin: 0
Attendance has been at all time lows.

The only schools where this earns you a 4th season, are at schools who don't care about winning.
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Damn....I would give him one more year if this group comes back, but that sure is a well-thought out argument in opposition. And freaking depressing.....
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
BJ after 3 years:
40-53 overall
15-44 during the B1G regular season
18-14 in year three with the weakest schedule over the past 2 decades.
Finished 1-5 over the final 6 games, and lost 4 of those by double digits. Gave up over 100 in the other loss by 8.
No NCAA tournament appearances, and likely no postseason play over 3 years.
Wins over ranked teams: 0
Wins over rivals Iowa/Wisconsin: 0
Attendance has been at all time lows.

The only schools where this earns you a 4th season, are at schools who don't care about winning.
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These are the facts. Reality isn't going to go away.

Related, some people questioned his coaching ability as a new coach. Some say it has improved. I have no opinion except we'll say this gets mediocre score. It's not mediocre but fine I'll say it is (even though it's not).

The way CBJ survives another year is a different reason. It's his recruiting and team building.

Now let's look at the players. Let's humanize this.

They have limitations. That's part of the fun, to see them progress. Payne has limitations. Christie can't do some stuff yet or not consistently.

But they're close.

9-11 is not bad for starting to come together.


Everyone can see how the team would coalesce then season.


So every "fact" measurement has fallen short, then if the "team coalesces" season doesn't "coalesce," then it never worked.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
BJ after 3 years:
40-53 overall
15-44 during the B1G regular season
18-14 in year three with the weakest schedule over the past 2 decades.
Finished 1-5 over the final 6 games, and lost 4 of those by double digits. Gave up over 100 in the other loss by 8.
No NCAA tournament appearances, and likely no postseason play over 3 years.
Wins over ranked teams: 0
Wins over rivals Iowa/Wisconsin: 0
Attendance has been at all time lows.

The only schools where this earns you a 4th season, are at schools who don't care about winning.
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A disaster indeed.
 

PSU, with a first year HC, has now surpassed us in both KenPom and NET. They have more Q1 wins, a better KPI and BPI. That's rather pathetic. Wasn't the baseline for many people to be better than them?

I just don't understand why we have to "embrace the suck", but programs like PSU, South Carolina, Kansas State, Wyoming, Mississippi State, Missouri, and Iowa State can all the make the tournament in year 1 or year 2 under a new HC.

Ben will be back, unfortunately, but he certainly shouldn't be. I understand why Ben played the weak schedule he did. Up the win total, so it seems like there's been significant "progress." But the product on the court is still bad after 3 years.
 



Gophers7633 said:
PSU, with a first year HC, has now surpassed us in both KenPom and NET. They have more Q1 wins, a better KPI and BPI. That's rather pathetic. Wasn't the baseline for many people to be better than them?

I just don't understand why we have to "embrace the suck", but programs like PSU, South Carolina, Kansas State, Wyoming, Mississippi State, Missouri, and Iowa State can all the make the tournament in year 1 or year 2 under a new HC.

Ben will be back, unfortunately, but he certainly shouldn't be. I understand why Ben played the weak schedule he did. Up the win total, so it seems like there's been significant "progress." But the product on the court is still bad after 3 years.
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If only we got the chance to play them on the court to see who was better.
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
If only we got the chance to play them on the court to see who was better.
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Yeah, we won two competitive games against them. You're happy about maybe being better than PSU, with a first year HC, with significant roster turnover? They also beat Wisconsin and Illinois and swept IU during the season.
 

WindyCityGopher said:
So if the four impact players--Garcia, Christie, Hawkins and Payne--come back next year, there's certainly potential for a promising season. Ok, but what about after that? We will lose Garcia and Hawkins and likely Christie to his NBA aspirations. Coyle needs to look at the big picture, not just one year. What's in the pipeline? Asuma is essentially the '24 recruiting class and will be unproven, so Johnson will largely need to fill out the roster through the portal. That doesn't feel like a longterm plan, it feels like he's constantly needing to patch together a roster year-to-year. What if we have a successful year in 24-25, but revert back to the mediocre mean in 25-26? Does that get him fired? My point is that the future doesn't look so unbelievably bright (despite what Izzo says) where you don't pull the trigger now. One potentially very good year, followed by a cloud of uncertainty beyond that, shouldn't impact the decision Coyle has to make now. Johnson hasn't earned the benefit of that doubt.
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True but that’s the same as many other teams. In general if we’re good enough to send a player to the NBA once there isn’t a reason we can’t get a player that good again. Ben needs to do well in the portal as well as HS recruiting. Losing those three after next year isn’t what I would base my decision on unless at that point they have nothing coming in the next year.
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
If only we got the chance to play them on the court to see who was better.
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Beat them twice head to head and placed above them in the final BT rankings. But their NET is better by a few points....you know....the important things.
 




stocker08 said:
Beat them twice head to head and placed above them in the final BT rankings. But their NET is better by a few points....you know....the important things.
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But we were told year 1 doesn't count for a new coach who loses their whole roster!! Yet some how PSU is still respectable....it's almost like they hired a competent coach!
 


stocker08 said:
Beat them twice head to head and placed above them in the final BT rankings. But their NET is better by a few points....you know....the important things.
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BT rankings are the thing that is irrelevant. Case in point Ohio State. Also, with the new NIT selection rules, NET ranking is much more relevant than BT rankings.
 
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TwistingMyMelon said:
I don't know why you think that is true. Here are some 2024 Big Ten players who have come from nonmajors:

2024:

Marcus Domansk (IL)
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First Team All Conference
TwistingMyMelon said:
Justin Harmon (IL)
Lance Jones (Purdue)
Reink Mast (NE)
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Third Team All Conference
TwistingMyMelon said:
Brice Williams (NE)
Max Klesmit (WI)
Ben Krikke (IA)
Tyson Walker (MSU)
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Second Team All Conference
TwistingMyMelon said:
Jamison Battle (OSU)
Ace Baldwin (PSU)
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B10 D POY
Third Team All Conference
TwistingMyMelon said:
Nick Kern (PSU)
Zach Hicks (PSU)
Jahmir Young (MD)
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Second Team All Conference
TwistingMyMelon said:
Of course, if we went back further, we'd find other good players from nonmajors (Kenny Pickett is a good example; in fact, PSU last season had several among their top players).

You know, if you challenged your old-wives-tale assumptions once in awhile and did some research, you'd be a better poster but I guess some old dogs just can't learn new tricks.
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I just did a quick review, so zi might have missed someone on the first three teams. I didn’t look at honorable mention, which would include Our Prophet.

Lots of talent in the non P6 teams.
 

Can’t make the big dance playing a weak non- conference schedule. Reason for Indiana State not making it. Even though their net was26?
 




Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
Fire him…today.

What happens if we don’t. Garcia leaves next year, Christie most likely portals next year (or goes NBA), asuma most likely portals.

Just save us a year now!!!
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Christie and Garcia are likely gone right now. Not next year.
 



2022 recruiting class:

JOJ - portal
Payne - portal
Henley - portal
Betts - can't get on the court
Carrington - regressed last year

Obviously not good enough. Ben's gonna get another year(I think) but he most definitely doesn't deserve it.
 


In all fairness, this Payne thing is more about college basketball being a disaster than Ben being a disaster.

If, however, Garcia and at least one of the talented underclassmen also bolt, it's a bad sign about the program Ben is running. It's a referendum.
 


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