Ben Johnson and this team

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A roster of mostly lesser talent and no bench is simply not going to hold up to the rigors of a Power 5 conference season. In order to win, our players had to literally give 100% effort every single play to make up for their disparate talent. Unlike a normally constructed team with a bench, these players can't get a decent breather so they have worn down.

How many people here have gotten burned out at work by busting your butts every day and not getting recognized for your effort? You have too much work for the amount of time in the day and your work output and quality slips? Your coworker quits so now you have to work twice as hard because they aren't rehiring the position?

This is not rocket science... this is human nature. You people treat these kids like they are machines whose sole purpose is to entertain us. These are people.

You say that this is like their job but their job doesn't pay them cash money AND their 'pay' entails scholarships that require them to work another job as a student in order to meet the grades. These students are working the equivalent of two full time jobs. And they are young adults who don't have the experience and savvy that most of us have.

If there are any former D-1 athletes on here, I would appreciate your perspective.
 

Lion King said:
Fox was Division 2

I JUST DON'T think you can assume he would have made a difference. Depth would have helped, but more wins,maybe,maybe not.
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Fox and Ihnen would not have made a difference in wins? Both long, decent defenders, shot blockers, and rebounders. They would have brought us from worst in league on interior defense to middle of the pack. That means more wins.
 

MNVCGUY said:
We all know Johnson will do what he can to fix these issues before next season.

But since you have all the answers - how would you have fixed these problems during the season with the roster that was in place?
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Silence ...
 

Dakota2 said:
Fox and Ihnen would not have made a difference in wins? Both long, decent defenders, shot blockers, and rebounders. They would have brought us from worst in league on interior defense to middle of the pack. That means more wins.
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There were 4 games that were one possession or less within the last couple of minutes. I would think that their added depth and specific skill sets would have led to at least one more win.
 

leib0039 said:
I said zero about talent, I said FATIGUE. Obviously they are more talented, but Duke is also a superior talented team to NW. My point was more that a lot on here dismissed losing because we were going to play harder, tougher, grittier than the other team! Well now that we arent doing that its because we are tired, I am showing that other teams who dont play a bench don't seem to be tired. And overall what the idea of fatigue is. NEB doesnt play a ton of bench guys, they played the same number of games we did, they were short their best players yesterday, they didnt play tired or look beaten. I understand we are terrible at rebounding due to physical limitations, looking disinterested on defense was not something i can accept for a team that was supposed to make their money in that area of the game.
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Who plays better when tired? Talented guys or less talented guys?
 


ecoperson said:
Absolutely! I haven't followed your history on this subject here or on other threads. I think took offense at the term 'bad' in your description. Bad implies that they are losing every game by 20 plus and offending our aesthetic love of basketball.

This team was extremely over-matched (as I expected) in conference. They kept turnovers to a minimum and, for the most part, continued to play a pleasing team-oriented and organized game of basketball. They just didn't have the horses or legs to hold up to a full season of ball.

In all but a couple of games, this team fought until the horn and made things respectable. Maybe I am splitting hairs but I do not think that is a definition of a bad team.
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I am being in no way sarcastic, just trying to get your thoughts. Who would you consider a "bad team" (lets just stick with power 5). Is there anyone? I tend to think this sets a VERY low bar, clearly you are not too worried about record if a team tries hard? So like WVU we will use. They had a similar conference record to us, they were just ripped for not trying hard enough by their coach of all people. Yet they just beat a tourney bound TCU team this weekend and in the last few weeks lost by 1 possession to ISU and Tex, both going to the tourney. What about Georgetown is 0-19 in conf, in the last few weeks they lost by 3, 9 to uconn, 8 to Nova, 5 to Seton Hall. Is that still ok as they are keeping tough games close? Does it matter if your coach isnt in year 1? Can you still try hard and be fun to watch in year 4-5-6?
 

Lion King said:
Top players are supposed to help lesser players get confidence an play better, ours did opposite, ignored them and tried to do it all by themselves, that never works.
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Good point, Jen. If only Willis and Battle had worked harder to get Charlie 20 shots a game ...
 


leib0039 said:
I also wonder about "fatigue". They played on Wednesday then Sunday, this isnt like we played a 4 game in 5 day thing. They are college athletes not fat slobs. They are 20ish years old with world class trainers, food experts, etc. Do I think playing 35+ min in a Big 10 game is tough, yah absolutely it is, but I have a tough time thinking 4 days later they are still just exhausted. Sure dings add up over the year but I just watched a UNC team that basically plays the same number of guys we do and didnt make one sub the entire 2nd half take it to a top 5 Duke team. I know its just the end of the world to say this to some people but we got exposed as the year went on, people figured out Johnson/team and we didnt adjust well. That is almost a given for a 1st year coach, but that needs to improve. At the 1/2 way point of the B1G year there was a lot of hope we as started to get the weaklings more, we seemingly got worse, that isnt a great sign.
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That recent four game stretch in 7 days completely gassed them, I think. Missing some starters during that stretch did not help.
 
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Disappointing. Gophers finished last in the conference as many predicted and many feared. There were encouraging moments during the season and then they ran out of gas. I think Ben showed that he can coach but you can only go so far without great talent and a good bench. Ben has shown that he knows how to use the transfer portal and he will have to do that again. Unfortunately, a dismal record makes it hard to attract high-quality players. Maybe, they can beat Penn State and give themselves and fans something positive at the end of the season.
 


I have followed the Gophers since the 1982 Big Ten Championship. I plan my schedule every winter around this team. I am the epitome of a Gopher fanatic and REALLY want to see Williams get rocking again.

Like many of you, the losses grate at me for days. Unfortunately, there are a lot of angry, impatient posters here who seemingly delight in pouring salt in my wounds after every loss.

I am a positive person who looks for the silver lining in every situation. I have been called a bot, apologist, and nauseating over the last couple of weeks merely for trying to provide a different perspective on this team and its composition.

I will refrain from entering into these conversation in the future so that the negativity here does not poison my soul. I have become too invested in providing perspective and it is killing my love of the GopherHole.

I am looking forward to this off season when we will hopefully sign Henley and then begin recruiting the portal for some of the pieces that will make this team a success in the near future. I will add to those discussions when I find new tidbits of info but will cease posting further on the 'op ed' threads.

Go Gophers!
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
Transfers were largely fine. The issue was losing the entire team to the portal and injuries which made the transfers play bigger roles than they were expected to. If Loewe was the 5th best starter, Stephens 6th man, Sutherlin 9th or 10th off the bench and Daniels 2 minutes a game the transfers wouldn't be looked down upon.
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For sure. Fans underestimate the damage done when Fox and Ihnen both went down. Worst case scenario for the front court ended up happening
 



howeda7 said:
The decline in defense/hustle and the refusal to even attempt to develop Thompson/Thiam were disappointing down the stretch after a promising start.
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Agree with all your points. At the start of the year we were good at slowing down the pace and making teams guard us for 20+ seconds of the shot clock. Towards the end of the year there was a lot of rushed shots and Pitino ball being played
 

Spottedmuskie said:
For sure. Fans underestimate the damage done when Fox and Ihnen both went down. Worst case scenario for the front court ended up happening
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Yes. But after that rough start, we stayed remarkably healthy. 7 games missed by starters in total. 9 by the top 8 rotation guys.
 



MNVCGUY said:
We all know Johnson will do what he can to fix these issues before next season.

But since you have all the answers - how would you have fixed these problems during the season with the roster that was in place?
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Play Thiam and TT more against Corpus Cristi, Jacksonville, and Greenbay. Allow them to be more comfortable and for the top 6 players to "rest" a little before B1G play. Run some zone with TT like we did against Iowa, do it every game except vs Kofi, Purdue, and Ohio State. Run a play for Thiam to shoot some open 3s coming off screens to give him any bit of confidence.

Don't let Curry jack up so many 18 footers, he only hit them in one game all year. Hold Willis more accountable on D. Play Ramberg more after his hand healed, when we played him he knew his role and good things happened. Okay Thiam can't dribble, give that Eastview walk on a few minutes, he couldn't have been much worse.
 
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Lion King said:
Fox was Division 2

I JUST DON'T think you can assume he would have made a difference. Depth would have helped, but more wins,maybe,maybe not.
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Yeah he just had 50+ offers because nobody knew what to expect.
 

Spottedmuskie said:
Play Thiam and TT more against Corpus Cristi, Jacksonville, and Greenbay. Allow them to be more comfortable and for the top 6 players to "rest" a little B1G play. Run some zone with TT like we did against Iowa, do it every game except vs Kofi, Purdue, and Ohio State. Run a play for Thiam to shoot some open 3s coming off screens to give him any bit of confidence.

Don't let Curry jack up so many 18 footers, he only hit them in one game all year. Hold Willis more accountable on D. Play Ramberg more after his hand healed, when we played him he knew his role and good things happened. Okay Thiam can't dribble, give that Eastview walk on a few minutes, he couldn't have been much worse.
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EXACTLY!
 

It was a disappointing season.

But - putting it in perspective, we are not talking about a program that contends for conference honors on a regular basis and has fallen on hard times.

we are talking about a program that, in the last 25 seasons, has had 3 winning B1G seasons and 3 .500 seasons.

In other words, in 19 of the last 25 seasons, the Gophers have finished with a losing record in the conference. In 13 of those 25 seasons, the Gophers have won 6 or fewer conference games.

So yeah, this year was disappointing. But we are not talking about a program that went from....say 12-8 in the conference to 4-16. We are talking about a program that was 6-14 in the conference last season and 4-16 this season.

Some people on here act as if the Gophers are some big-time hoops program and Ben Johnson came in here and destroyed it in one season.

In truth, the Gophers were crappy last season, and slightly more crappy this season.

If only they would have hired the "right" coach...........
 

Complete speculation:

The season is winding down. There is no future to play for. There are a majority of players over 21. These last days are about enjoying a beer and saying "thanks for the memories."
 

short ornery norwegian said:
It was a disappointing season.

But - putting it in perspective, we are not talking about a program that contends for conference honors on a regular basis and has fallen on hard times.

we are talking about a program that, in the last 25 seasons, has had 3 winning B1G seasons and 3 .500 seasons.

In other words, in 19 of the last 25 seasons, the Gophers have finished with a losing record in the conference. In 13 of those 25 seasons, the Gophers have won 6 or fewer conference games.

So yeah, this year was disappointing. But we are not talking about a program that went from....say 12-8 in the conference to 4-16. We are talking about a program that was 6-14 in the conference last season and 4-16 this season.

Some people on here act as if the Gophers are some big-time hoops program and Ben Johnson came in here and destroyed it in one season.

In truth, the Gophers were crappy last season, and slightly more crappy this season.

If only they would have hired the "right" coach...........
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This is a point some of us spoke of when the hire was being made. This is a DIFFICULT job. Great potential, but a huge initial climb. I remain hopeful that Ben was the right guy and I like his character and the coaching demeanor. All of that said, the prescription for this job was a high end hire. You spend money to make money.

I am rooting for Ben. This offseason and the next team, must be much, much better. The good news? When some losses come it will at least be done with youth on the floor. The most brutal part of this season is that it always felt like a season to nowhere. No one playing, save for Battle, had a future in the program. Yes TT played...but not much.
 

bga1 said:
This is a point some of us spoke of when the hire was being made. This is a DIFFICULT job. Great potential, but a huge initial climb. I remain hopeful that Ben was the right guy and I like his character and the coaching demeanor. All of that said, the prescription for this job was a high end hire. You spend money to make money.

I am rooting for Ben. This offseason and the next team, must be much, much better. The good news? When some losses come it will at least be done with youth on the floor. The most brutal part of this season is that it always felt like a season to nowhere. No one playing, save for Battle, had a future in the program. Yes TT played...but not much.
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It does make for an interesting debate. Ben coached this year with the clear goal of competing and trying to win the games as opposed to putting a focus on playing the young guys whether they deserved it or not.

Time will tell if that was the right way to go or not. But in a year where they could have just said f...it and played guys like TT and Thiam heavy minutes they instead decided to put the best of what we had on the floor and try to win.

In the end, the record would have probably been about the same as where it ended up. The difference would be that many of the really close hard fought games probably would have been much more lopsided loses.
 

ecoperson said:
A roster of mostly lesser talent and no bench is simply not going to hold up to the rigors of a Power 5 conference season. In order to win, our players had to literally give 100% effort every single play to make up for their disparate talent. Unlike a normally constructed team with a bench, these players can't get a decent breather so they have worn down.

How many people here have gotten burned out at work by busting your butts every day and not getting recognized for your effort? You have too much work for the amount of time in the day and your work output and quality slips? Your coworker quits so now you have to work twice as hard because they aren't rehiring the position?

This is not rocket science... this is human nature. You people treat these kids like they are machines whose sole purpose is to entertain us. These are people.

You say that this is like their job but their job doesn't pay them cash money AND their 'pay' entails scholarships that require them to work another job as a student in order to meet the grades. These students are working the equivalent of two full time jobs. And they are young adults who don't have the experience and savvy that most of us have.

If there are any former D-1 athletes on here, I would appreciate your perspective.
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Amen.
 



Ended the way I was it expecting to be all yr..

I'm still happy with the overall results..
 

bga1 said:
This is a point some of us spoke of when the hire was being made. This is a DIFFICULT job. Great potential, but a huge initial climb. I remain hopeful that Ben was the right guy and I like his character and the coaching demeanor. All of that said, the prescription for this job was a high end hire. You spend money to make money.

I am rooting for Ben. This offseason and the next team, must be much, much better. The good news? When some losses come it will at least be done with youth on the floor. The most brutal part of this season is that it always felt like a season to nowhere. No one playing, save for Battle, had a future in the program. Yes TT played...but not much.
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TT played more here than he would have anywhere else in the league.
 

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