Bandwagon City

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gophervet

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I was reading about the Lynx last night and how they had 15k plus for their game 1 of the WNBA Finals. If the Lynx can get 15k (and expecting more for game 2), even if it is the finals; there is no doubt in my mind that the gophers could expand to 80,000 and fill it consistently if they were putting a perennial winning product out there. If we had the type of program right now that Wisconsin has had over the last 5-10 years, we could fill 80k easily because this town and state has a very bandwagon mentality (not saying that it is bad-because winning naturally creates interest). I really hope that happens because I'd love college football, played outdoors and during the most beautiful season weather wise that this state has to offer, to be the big ticket item around here. I honestly think that if we had two or three winning seasons (a progressive increase into a 10 game winner), we would have no problem keeping recruits at home and creating interest in the program.
 

Thats exactly right. Give us any type of success and we will have to expand the stadium to get everyone in. I dont think most people have any idea what it would be like.
 

Raise the money then doc1001. Get it done. Don't just talk about it. And, while you are at it, sell only 50 season non refundable season tickets to make sure that the seats will be sold out in those rare seasons when Big Ten wins are kind of hard to come by...

Why worry about an 80,000 seat stadium when we can't even sell out a 50,000 seat stadium?

Maybe you could consult with ziggy wilf about this one doc1001! He's not much of a football guy...but...he sure does want to do some stadium building! (wink-wink)

Maybe you should consider putting wheels on the stadium since it is going to hold so many "band WAGON" fans.

; 0 )
 

gophervet said:
I was reading about the Lynx last night and how they had 15k plus for their game 1 of the WNBA Finals. If the Lynx can get 15k (and expecting more for game 2), even if it is the finals; there is no doubt in my mind that the gophers could expand to 80,000 and fill it consistently if they were putting a perennial winning product out there. If we had the type of program right now that Wisconsin has had over the last 5-10 years, we could fill 80k easily because this town and state has a very bandwagon mentality (not saying that it is bad-because winning naturally creates interest). I really hope that happens because I'd love college football, played outdoors and during the most beautiful season weather wise that this state has to offer, to be the big ticket item around here. I honestly think that if we had two or three winning seasons (a progressive increase into a 10 game winner), we would have no problem keeping recruits at home and creating interest in the program.
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You can call it bandwagon all you want, but the truth is paying customers want to see a successful product. Just like when you go shopping at Best Buy. Why pay to see a team go 1-11 when you can tune in and out of it at home for free? The Lynx have been traditionally an awful team for most of their existence but they really put it all together this year. They have a good coach, good defense and play great team basketball. Its fun to watch teams succeed. So yes, if we could ever make it to the Rose Bowl, we won't have any trouble filling the stadium for a few years.
 

I think the fact that ever other team in town completely sucks is really driving the Lynx attendance, people are desperate to watch a winner.
 


Winning increases attendance. Plain and simple. Look at the Pittsburgh Pirates. They have had 18 straight losing seasons!! This year, in the middle of the season, they were in first place. They sold out a PNC Park record for consecutive games during that stretch. They were the talk of the town. It doesn't take much for fans to hop on a bandwagon. It doesn't matter if its Minnesota, Pittsburgh, Seattle, Miami, it's all the same.
 

The problem with these bandwagon jumpers is they leave as quickly as they come. 80K at a Gopher FBall game would be awesome, and I hope I see it someday, but as soon as they went through a down period, we'd be seeing 40,000 empty seats.
 

RahRahSkiUMah said:
The problem with these bandwagon jumpers is they leave as quickly as they come. 80K at a Gopher FBall game would be awesome, and I hope I see it someday, but as soon as they went through a down period, we'd be seeing 40,000 empty seats.
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People are mostly making good points in this thread. I have said before that there are a lot of fans that are hanging out there waiting for the Gopher footballers to have their breakthrough year. If they still played in the Metrodome, I'd argue that some sustained success would fill the dome for a while but as is the nature of Minnesota fans, yes, they would leave if the team slipped back even if it were a downslide that lasted only a season or two.

TCF Bank Stadium is a game changer and another big one is the creation of a lasting party atmosphere surrounding the stadium on game day. Winning is the most important variable... to be sure. But, when even semi-regular winning is combined with TCF AND a fun all-day game day atmosphere on campus, the fans not only will return but will be willing to stay during the lean years. I don't think any of this happens and there'd be no need for more stadium seats if ALL THREE conditions aren't met.

1. Winning team, regular 7 or 8 win seasons with conference title challenge once or twice per decade - Long ways away, much needed
2. Tailgate/party culture needs to be developed and allowed by the governing bodies - from what I have heard, also possibly a long ways away, and would have to take root as the team achieves their sustained winning ways
3. On campus Stadium - CHECK/DONE

One for three so far and I am convinced ALL THREE need to be in place before anyone can order up the construction cranes.
 

Many people don't want to accept this, but being in a market with 3 other major pro sports teams means the Gophers aren't going to get support when they are terrible.

The Minneapolis market simply isn't big enough to sustain any one team while they are consistently losers. There is only a limited amount of money people have to spend and it will go to whatever team is doing the best.
 



Former Goofer said:
Many people don't want to accept this, but being in a market with 3 other major pro sports teams means the Gophers aren't going to get support when they are terrible.

The Minneapolis market simply isn't big enough to sustain any one team while they are consistently losers. There is only a limited amount of money people have to spend and it will go to whatever team is doing the best.
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Your logic seems ok but there isn't really any evidence to support it. TCF currently holds 50k; the Dome holds 60k. The percentage of people in the state of MN that are mutually excusive between the two is probably small. If both the Vikings & Gophers were playing for a division championship the same year, both stadiums would sell out.

Schauzer is right. A winning team will bring the fans. A winning atmosphere will keep them during the low years, independant of what the Vikings are doing.
 

Nokomis said:
Your logic seems ok but there isn't really any evidence to support it. TCF currently holds 50k; the Dome holds 60k. The percentage of people in the state of MN that are mutually excusive between the two is probably small. If both the Vikings & Gophers were playing for a division championship the same year, both stadiums would sell out.

Schauzer is right. A winning team will bring the fans. A winning atmosphere will keep them during the low years, independant of what the Vikings are doing.
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There isn't any evidence to support it? lol, how about the fact that whenever a team in this town does great the attendance and support goes up and when they are terrible the opposite happens. It isn't just the Vikings that take money away from the Gophers football, the Wolves and Twins also do as well. Like, I said people only have a limited amount of money they can spend a year. It's the casual fans that fill up a stadium and the casual fans only do that if the teams are good. Obviously if the Gophers were good more and more people woul support them but that isn't the case. If you it it's just a theory that people will only spend 'X' amount of money per year on entertainment and not spend it for a good team in our market, then I have some property in Florida I'd like to sell you.

I mean look at Iowa for example, they have no pro sports teams. Because of this people will support the only sport they care about unconditionally. The small city of Ames swells up to around 200k (up from 60k normally) people when Iowa comes into town to play the Cyclones.
 

Former Goofer said:
There isn't any evidence to support it? lol, how about the fact that whenever a team in this town does great the attendance and support goes up and when they are terrible the opposite happens. It isn't just the Vikings that take money away from the Gophers football, the Wolves and Twins also do as well. Like, I said people only have a limited amount of money they can spend a year. It's the casual fans that fill up a stadium and the casual fans only do that if the teams are good. Obviously if the Gophers were good more and more people woul support them but that isn't the case. If you it it's just a theory that people will only spend 'X' amount of money per year on entertainment and not spend it for a good team in our market, then I have some property in Florida I'd like to sell you.

I mean look at Iowa for example, they have no pro sports teams. Because of this people will support the only sport they care about unconditionally. The small city of Ames swells up to around 200k (up from 60k normally) people when Iowa comes into town to play the Cyclones.
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It also isn't like that just here. It's like that most places.
Using your Iowa example, there are 4-5M people in the state of MN. We should be able to get 1% of them to TCF each Sat. The difference in the past is that when the teams hit a low year we were left with the Dome. Now we have TCF & Target Field. The Twins still had decent attendance this year (at least from what I could tell) despite a last place season.
If you create a fun Gameday atmosphere, the bandwagon dropoff won't be as noticeable.
 

Former Goofer said:
There isn't any evidence to support it? lol, how about the fact that whenever a team in this town does great the attendance and support goes up and when they are terrible the opposite happens. It isn't just the Vikings that take money away from the Gophers football, the Wolves and Twins also do as well. Like, I said people only have a limited amount of money they can spend a year. It's the casual fans that fill up a stadium and the casual fans only do that if the teams are good. Obviously if the Gophers were good more and more people woul support them but that isn't the case. If you it it's just a theory that people will only spend 'X' amount of money per year on entertainment and not spend it for a good team in our market, then I have some property in Florida I'd like to sell you.

I mean look at Iowa for example, they have no pro sports teams. Because of this people will support the only sport they care about unconditionally. The small city of Ames swells up to around 200k (up from 60k normally) people when Iowa comes into town to play the Cyclones.
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As some others have pointed out, I simply don't believe that people only have enough time/money to support one or the other. In just the metro area there are 3.468 million people (according to wikipedia). 51.2% (1.77M) of those are between the ages of 25 and 60. There are enough families in just the "rich" suburbs to afford tickets to all 3 of the Twins, Vikings, and Gophers to fill TCF Bank Stadium, not to mention the students (20% of the stadium), corporate ticket holders, and die-hard Gopher fans. It has nothing to do with people not having the money or time to support a losing team, just the mindset of not wanting to. That is what needs to be changed, as Schnauzer said, by creating a culture of winning, semi-frequent super competitiveness, and gameday atmosphere to keep people coming in the down years.

What do I mean by this? We need to win/fight for share of a B1G title once every 5-7 years. In between, our record should NOT be below .500 (6-7 wins is the worst case scenario). The atmosphere will develop with winning but the U needs to encourage it and sustain it when we do have disappointing years. While I'm not the biggest Vikings fan, they have had just enough success to keep fans pretty rabid. People sit their butts down and watch them on TV and fill the stadium pretty darn well. I think this has something to do with the fact that they vie for the playoffs regularly, and since 1998 have been in 3 NFC Championship games. While their down years suck, winning happens frequently enough to keep fans involved.

Twins and Wild see the same. Target Field certainly helped Twins attendance this year, but the team was dismal yet even to the end of the year support was there.

The U can pull this off.
 



RailBaronYarr said:
As some others have pointed out, I simply don't believe that people only have enough time/money to support one or the other.
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I think what he's saying is somewhat correct. I think people have the money, they just choose to spread it out more because there are more options. Many people of MN are fans of most or all pro and major college teams. So they could maybe afford to buy season tickets to the Gophers, but then that wouldn't allow them to go to any or many other games (Vikings, Twins, etc.).

Down here in cornland, most people are big hawkeye fans. Yes they may be big fans of the Cardinals, Cubs, Bears, or Packers, but they generally don't go to those games because it's so far away. They then can spend more time and money going to football games in iowa city.

I'm not making excuses, and I still think if and when we win consistently, the fans will be there.
 

RailBaronYarr said:
As some others have pointed out, I simply don't believe that people only have enough time/money to support one or the other. In just the metro area there are 3.468 million people (according to wikipedia). 51.2% (1.77M) of those are between the ages of 25 and 60. There are enough families in just the "rich" suburbs to afford tickets to all 3 of the Twins, Vikings, and Gophers to fill TCF Bank Stadium, not to mention the students (20% of the stadium), corporate ticket holders, and die-hard Gopher fans. It has nothing to do with people not having the money or time to support a losing team, just the mindset of not wanting to. That is what needs to be changed, as Schnauzer said, by creating a culture of winning, semi-frequent super competitiveness, and gameday atmosphere to keep people coming in the down years.
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That's great that enough families are out there to buy the tickets, but they aren't going to if they aren't sports fans. NOT EVERYBODY LIKES WATCHING SPORTS! Just thought I'd emphasize my point.
 

Iowa has their own issues with selling tickets. It made the Register a few years ago that there was dwindling attendance in a down year despite the fact that the down year occurred during the best decade of Iowa football ever. Iowa basketball gets terrible attendance, the way the program performs matters almost everywhere. When Iowa goes back down the ladder for a sustained period, you will see football attendance drop.

I would guess Minnesota football attendance compares favorably to any other school with a similar record over the past 15-20 years with the exception of South Carolina.
 

EG#9 said:
Iowa has their own issues with selling tickets. It made the Register a few years ago that there was dwindling attendance in a down year despite the fact that the down year occurred during the best decade of Iowa football ever. Iowa basketball gets terrible attendance, the way the program performs matters almost everywhere. When Iowa goes back down the ladder for a sustained period, you will see football attendance drop.

I would guess Minnesota football attendance compares favorably to any other school with a similar record over the past 15-20 years with the exception of South Carolina.
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Bielema called out WI students for selling the NE tickets to opposing fans to make some money. So yes, it's everywhere. Given our futility, I'd say our fans are doing fine.
 

zambam said:
That's great that enough families are out there to buy the tickets, but they aren't going to if they aren't sports fans. NOT EVERYBODY LIKES WATCHING SPORTS! Just thought I'd emphasize my point.
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It's not just sports. It's ALL entertainment options. Sports, Dining, Theater, Movies, Amusement Parks, Skiing, etc. This is the real drawback of being located in a major city. Not only are you competing for money and interest with other teams, but the multitude of other options for peoples discretionary income. If your product isn't good (and the Gophers are not good), people will look elsewhere to spend their money.
 

as someone who has been at every gopher home game for the past 20 years and shamefully attended all the lynx games these playoffs, the atmosphere there was loud and positive. It was people having FUN. The majority of people at TCF go in with a we have no chance, this sucks, blah blah blah attitude and never even give the Gophs a chance. With these differences it becomes obvious that the reason is because of a winning team that the crowd can root for. If the lynx can draw a big and rowdy crowd, it gives me hope that when the Gophs can put a hard working team on the field that has success, the crazy crowds will come to TCF.
 

discochris said:
It's not just sports. It's ALL entertainment options. Sports, Dining, Theater, Movies, Amusement Parks, Skiing, etc. This is the real drawback of being located in a major city. Not only are you competing for money and interest with other teams, but the multitude of other options for peoples discretionary income. If your product isn't good (and the Gophers are not good), people will look elsewhere to spend their money.
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I disagree as I believe your assertion is only partially right. It is correct as long as the Gophers remain in their 40+ year slumber, AND fail to cultivate an all-day celebration for gamedays.

Where you are incorrect in my opinion is college football can and should be very different than pro sports (not to mention the other activities you mentioned). It adds an entire layer of memories and nostalgia that other activities/sports can't match.

Unfortunately the combination of 44 years of Gopher football frustration AND the Metrodome purgatory worked to dislodge the very large (and very local) alumni base from it's team. Once the three conditions from my earlier post are met, I believe the sleeping giant fan base will not only appear, but be willing to endure some lean years thanks to the age-old fun and nostalgia of spending a fall Saturday back on campus. THAT is where Gopher football has the potential to depart from all the other band wagon inspired sports and other distractions in this town.

These are the primary reasons I can't subscribe to the old "can't compete in a pro town or big city" argument. I believe it looks at obvious symptoms but then diagnoses the wrong disease.
 

Schnauzer said:
I disagree as I believe your assertion is only partially right. It is correct as long as the Gophers remain in their 40+ year slumber, AND fail to cultivate an all-day celebration for gamedays.

Where you are incorrect in my opinion is college football can and should be very different than pro sports (not to mention the other activities you mentioned). It adds an entire layer of memories and nostalgia that other activities/sports can't match.

Unfortunately the combination of 44 years of Gopher football frustration AND the Metrodome purgatory worked to dislodge the very large (and very local) alumni base from it's team. Once the three conditions from my earlier post are met, I believe the sleeping giant fan base will not only appear, but be willing to endure some lean years thanks to the age-old fun and nostalgia of spending a fall Saturday back on campus. THAT is where Gopher football has the potential to depart from all the other band wagon inspired sports and other distractions in this town.

These are the primary reasons I can't subscribe to the old "can't compete in a pro town or big city" argument. I believe it looks at obvious symptoms but then diagnoses the wrong disease.
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No, you're correct, and you put it better than I did. College football SHOULD be a separate entity with its own attractions, but in this particular market, it isn't. I do think that the Metrodome fiasco had more to do with it than most will admit. We're probably most similar to Pitt in that regard. Pitt is a huge public school, and they've been more successful than us over the last 20-30 years, yet they're in a market dominated by pro football (and hockey) and they currently share a stadium with the Steelers, which kills the game day atmosphere.

I think that another big problem is that the U despite its size (fourth largest university in the US this year) is largely a commuter school. This is directly related to the metro area location, where housing options are plenty.

Many students live far off-campus, and even some who do live on campus leave for home, or hang out with their high school friends on the weekends. This is even more true on nice fall weekends than it it is in the dead of winter, which is why hoops and hockey tend to be a bit better supported than football.
 

Many students live far off-campus, and even some who do live on campus leave for home, or hang out with their high school friends on the weekends. This is even more true on nice fall weekends than it it is in the dead of winter, which is why hoops and hockey tend to be a bit better supported than football.
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Or hoops and hockey have actually, I don't know, actually won some big games in recent history.
 


Former Goofer said:
A sleeping giant fanbase?:D:D
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I always get a chuckle when somebody says this. My other favorite one is "there are more Gopher fans out there than people think."

It makes absolutely no sense. It would be like an executive from Blockbuster announcing in his quarterly earnings call..."I know our sales figures and revenue don't support this theory, but I can just sense that there are a lot more Blockbuster customers out there than what we sent off to the SEC this morning."
 

I realize it doesn't make sense to you, but a comparison between Gopher football and Blockbuster video makes perfect sense to you.

Chuckle away...

We'll have to agree to disagree that a consistent regular 8 or more win Gopher squad, playing in an on campus stadium surrounded by a tailgate/party friendly environment would annually fill a larger stadium.
 

Schnauzer said:
I realize it doesn't make sense to you, but a comparison between Gopher football and Blockbuster video makes perfect sense to you.

Chuckle away...

We'll have to agree to disagree that a consistent regular 8 or more win Gopher squad, playing in an on campus stadium surrounded by a tailgate/party friendly environment would annually fill a larger stadium.
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Tailgate friendly? Not even close. TCFs tailgating is horrible compared to most other schools.

Also, what do you think is more likely?

1) People don't want to spend their money on a crap product.

or

2) Minneapolis has the best kept secret in the nation. That our fanbase is a sleeping giant just waiting to be unleashed. A fanbase that's been doormat for 40 years. After 40 years of ineptitude I've got news for you, the Gophers have a small fanbase, a really small fanbase. Football teams that have been terrible for 40 decades straight don't have a sleeping giant fanbase.

And ya I agree with you, if the Gophers become consistent winners they could fill a bigger stadium. I only disagree that the Gophers have a 'giant sleeping fanbase'. As I've pointed out, people will spend their money on whatever sport team is doing well. If that sport team is terrible, people wont spend their money on it. Yes that happens everywhere, but it is compounded in our market.

'Giant sleeping fanbase':clap:
 


Former Goofer said:
There isn't any evidence to support it? lol, how about the fact that whenever a team in this town does great the attendance and support goes up and when they are terrible the opposite happens. It isn't just the Vikings that take money away from the Gophers football, the Wolves and Twins also do as well. Like, I said people only have a limited amount of money they can spend a year. It's the casual fans that fill up a stadium and the casual fans only do that if the teams are good. Obviously if the Gophers were good more and more people woul support them but that isn't the case. If you it it's just a theory that people will only spend 'X' amount of money per year on entertainment and not spend it for a good team in our market, then I have some property in Florida I'd like to sell you.

I mean look at Iowa for example, they have no pro sports teams. Because of this people will support the only sport they care about unconditionally. The small city of Ames swells up to around 200k (up from 60k normally) people when Iowa comes into town to play the Cyclones.
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Yes, but what you don't get is that it's the fact that the team stinks that keeps fans away, not that they can't afford the tickets.

People don't much want to watch the Vikings this year either, but do you really think that will result in increased attendance to watch the Gophers get slaughtered by 50? NO.

When I was at the U during the Wacker years, I had student season tickets ever year. You know which were the only games I did NOT attend? Those against the top Big Ten teams - like Michigan - because I didn't want to waste my time watching my team get slaughtered by 40 points and get all pissed off and have a miserable time.

If there is no gameday experience - and tailgating is a huge part of that in college football - then there BETTER be a winning team on the field.

I wouldn't blame Gopher fans if we see 20k attendance the rest of the year forward.
 

cncmin said:
Yes, but what you don't get is that it's the fact that the team stinks that keeps fans away, not that they can't afford the tickets.

People don't much want to watch the Vikings this year either, but do you really think that will result in increased attendance to watch the Gophers get slaughtered by 50? NO.

When I was at the U during the Wacker years, I had student season tickets ever year. You know which were the only games I did NOT attend? Those against the top Big Ten teams - like Michigan - because I didn't want to waste my time watching my team get slaughtered by 40 points and get all pissed off and have a miserable time.

If there is no gameday experience - and tailgating is a huge part of that in college football - then there BETTER be a winning team on the field.

I wouldn't blame Gopher fans if we see 20k attendance the rest of the year forward.
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You just argued my entire point.
 

Former Goofer said:
You just argued my entire point.
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No. You argued earlier that, essentially, people had finite money to spread around. Even in this tough economy, that's not even close to being true. Those attending Vikings and Twins and Wolves and Wild and Gophers BBall games on a regular basis have plenty of dough to spread around.
 

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