Band was defeated today

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HouseOfHagen said:
I understand the song selection is not on the students, but we are now three game performances in and the band has not improved. Where are all the posters blaming it on freshman, no time for preparation, etc. ? What's your excuse this week?
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Four days to prepare for this week, two of which got rained out.
 

We have music students at the U - why not a contest to write a song for the band to perform?

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We sit sunny side, upper deck, third row and hear the band just fine. One minor thing I miss in this “PA NEVER SLEEPS!” era, the band occasionally used to break out a small group (saxes, or tubas, or a small combo) to roam and play some quick bits to fans in other areas of the stadium. Bring the band to the people, I say.

A footnote: Kudos to the PA operator who canned Neil Diamond when the “Let’s go Gophers” chant began during the winning drive. Neil returned after the next play; but I appreciated the respite. Let us have a voice!
 

Neil Diamond during the winning drive was insane. At that point let the game stand on its own.
 


Winnipegopher said:
Neil Diamond during the winning drive was insane. At that point let the game stand on its own.
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Agreed. That's was just dumb. Also, the offensive line was trying to get people to be quiet and a load of people in our section got louder the more they did it until a few of us had to tell them to keep it down. I was dumbfounded at that.
 

Go Gophers Rah said:
I am normally a huge band booster, but I commented to my wife in both of the last two games that the music they play is waaaaay to old. Its like they do an internet search to find out the favorite tunes of the 65-year-old-multiple-cat-owning demographic. I'm an old guy and I like classic rock, but they should be playing to the students (IMO). I think they should stick to music over 70 years old (ie Sousa and a little big band) and then play only stuff the student section would know; 80's music (such as Michael Jackson, Journey and Bon Jovi) and contemporary stuff (like Fun, Pink and the like).

I love Chicago, but enough is enough.
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To be fair, the first game was all music from the last 10 years.
 

The band is fine. It's not supposed to be an immaculate display of music. My only complaint was that the Gophers offensive huddle had to signal them to quiet down when the gophers had the ball near them. That is inexcusable and embarrassing. Totally on the director though.
 





Ignatius L Hoops said:
We sit sunny side, upper deck, third row and hear the band just fine. One minor thing I miss in this “PA NEVER SLEEPS!” era, the band occasionally used to break out a small group (saxes, or tubas, or a small combo) to roam and play some quick bits to fans in other areas of the stadium. Bring the band to the people, I say.
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There was a group of about 5 band members (mixed instruments) that came up and played the rouser before the 4th quarter in section 236. I had never seen that before.
 

Ignatius L Hoops said:
We sit sunny side, upper deck, third row and hear the band just fine. One minor thing I miss in this “PA NEVER SLEEPS!” era, the band occasionally used to break out a small group (saxes, or tubas, or a small combo) to roam and play some quick bits to fans in other areas of the stadium. Bring the band to the people, I say.

A footnote: Kudos to the PA operator who canned Neil Diamond when the “Let’s go Gophers” chant began during the winning drive. Neil returned after the next play; but I appreciated the respite. Let us have a voice!
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Used to do this at hockey games too, the trombones or trumpets would go somewhere and play in the aisle of a section. Was really fun and often caught people by surprise which was enjoyable.
 

I'm generally a band apologist, having marched myself. But I agree; Sound of Music for halftime is just the worst. As bad as when we did a Titanic show. Trust me, it's as boring for the band to play as it is for the crowd to watch.

For those complaining about not being able to hear the band, I suggest catching the plaza show before the game. This is when our band is at its best, IMO. Loud & a little unhinged. Organized chaos, as the directors like to call it. I'd much rather have the post-game show outside the stadium among the fans, like at the Dome, than on the field.
 



fraternity2017 said:
The band is fine. It's not supposed to be an immaculate display of music. My only complaint was that the Gophers offensive huddle had to signal them to quiet down when the gophers had the ball near them. That is inexcusable and embarrassing. Totally on the director though.
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Our new drum major was actually at the helm on that one. He's still learning, but sometimes we're told to play so there isn't dead air, and he forgets to tell us to point away from the offense (were try to angle home and away during those times to disperse our sound and not have it travel at the offense). He's still learning though. There were many band members also mad at him and others for playing at the offense while they were trying to come up with a play. He's had a lot to learn and some big shoes to fill in that position so I don't blame him for messing up a bit, and I believe it'll be loads better from here on out.

I did think it was funny though, on the last drive there was definitely a time when the OL were set up, but Mitch and the WRs and the RBs weren't, and the OL was motioning for more noise, while Mitch was motioning for quiet.

I'm sure Athletics and the Band staff will make it know when we screwed up in the stands and how it needs to be fixed. I believe our band director goes to a meeting with the coaching staff every week or something like that, and they have given us praise/criticisms before so I wouldn't worry too much about it happening again.
 

Taji34 said:
Our new drum major was actually at the helm on that one. He's still learning, but sometimes we're told to play so there isn't dead air, and he forgets to tell us to point away from the offense (were try to angle home and away during those times to disperse our sound and not have it travel at the offense). He's still learning though. There were many band members also mad at him and others for playing at the offense while they were trying to come up with a play. He's had a lot to learn and some big shoes to fill in that position so I don't blame him for messing up a bit, and I believe it'll be loads better from here on out.

I did think it was funny though, on the last drive there was definitely a time when the OL were set up, but Mitch and the WRs and the RBs weren't, and the OL was motioning for more noise, while Mitch was motioning for quiet.

I'm sure Athletics and the Band staff will make it know when we screwed up in the stands and how it needs to be fixed. I believe our band director goes to a meeting with the coaching staff every week or something like that, and they have given us praise/criticisms before so I wouldn't worry too much about it happening again.
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Thanks for the explanation. I was thinking the DM probably just got caught up in the moment. I found myself cheering while on offense too. I did like how a bunch of the horns crowded the endzone on some of the 3rd downs on D.
 

Nokomis said:
I'm generally a band apologist, having marched myself. But I agree; Sound of Music for halftime is just the worst. As bad as when we did a Titanic show. Trust me, it's as boring for the band to play as it is for the crowd to watch.

For those complaining about not being able to hear the band, I suggest catching the plaza show before the game. This is when our band is at its best, IMO. Loud & a little unhinged. Organized chaos, as the directors like to call it. I'd much rather have the post-game show outside the stadium among the fans, like at the Dome, than on the field.
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Agree, makes no sense. It's areal head scratcher actually. Makes one wonder.

Nice to get the inside scoop from band members....and former.
 

Nokomis said:
Thanks for the explanation. I was thinking the DM probably just got caught up in the moment. I found myself cheering while on offense too. I did like how a bunch of the horns crowded the endzone on some of the 3rd downs on D.
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When we're on D, we're told to play as loud as possible at the Opposing QBs head, and we do. :) The D line last year said when the band gets loud and plays our third down shorts they really get pumped up, and they make sure to learn all the hand signals so that they don't have to rely on speaking to know what to do. Maybe they should tell that to the PA who, IMO as a fan, plays canned music too much on third and forth down on D. Let the band play, we can get 10x loud and I think we get the students riled up and louder better than any canned music. I may be slightly biased though, being a current band member.
 

Taji34 said:
When we're on D, we're told to play as loud as possible at the Opposing QBs head, and we do. :)
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Is that even within the rules? Actually, I know it's not, NCAA rule 1-1-6 plus the noise rule.

I feel like that's cheating to have anything more than crowd noise once the other team lines up.
 

beavergopher said:
They lost seven brass players to lip injuries, so go easy on them.
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Need to burn some red shirts on the freshman brass players and get them out there. Still waiting for the "Official, Our Band is not a D1 Marching Band Thread"
 

TexasAggie11 said:
Is that even within the rules? Actually, I know it's not, NCAA rule 1-1-6 plus the noise rule.

I feel like that's cheating to have anything more than crowd noise once the other team lines up.
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We have to stop playing when the center puts his hand on the ball is what I believe the rule is for the big ten, but since the refs understand we're human we have a second or two buffer before we're in danger of causing a penalty. That's what we've been told. That's how every Big Ten band does it, and we never get a penalty for it. The official NCAA rule may be that, but I've never seen it enforced as such in the Big Ten and a lot of other conferences. I'm sure in a championship game it might be, and when we played Missouri, being in the SEC their rule is band and canned music must stop once the huddle breaks, and we had to abide by that. However, this rule is rarely enforced by officials, so its almost like it doesn't exist, and it's never been a problem. I've only ever seen it called when bands play after the snap, which we don't.
 

Taji34 said:
We have to stop playing when the center puts his hand on the ball is what I believe the rule is for the big ten, but since the refs understand we're human we have a second or two buffer before we're in danger of causing a penalty. That's what we've been told. That's how every Big Ten band does it, and we never get a penalty for it. The official NCAA rule may be that, but I've never seen it enforced as such in the Big Ten and a lot of other conferences. I'm sure in a championship game it might be, and when we played Missouri, being in the SEC their rule is band and canned music must stop once the huddle breaks, and we had to abide by that. However, this rule is rarely enforced by officials, so its almost like it doesn't exist, and it's never been a problem. I've only ever seen it called when bands play after the snap, which we don't.
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Rule just states that "noise cannot prohibit a team from hearing their signals"
 

Ski U Master said:
Rule just states that "noise cannot prohibit a team from hearing their signals"
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Seems vague (probably on purpose), either way most, if not all, bands play as loud as they can at the opposing team until some, seemingly arbitrary, stopping point and no one, in my knowledge, has ever been called on it unless they play after the snap.
 

The MTSU band (Middle Tennessee) got called out on national TV about 2 years ago for continuing to play.

The rule used to be bands had to stop when the team reached the line of scrimmage after breaking the huddle. But, with teams going no-huddle frequently the wording was changed.
In the B1G the rule is when the center makes contact with the ball.
 

I seem to recall a certain band towards the east often playing after the snap with nary a call.
 

Usually one halftime show revolves around some combination of movies, tv shows, broadway, etc. especially if there is a major anniversary to something that year.
If a big movie, or an additional part of a trilogy, comes out that can also be a tie-in for a show.

Sound of Music was chosen this year for two reasons: 50th anniversary and the opener and closer of the halftime show that was used was written by Dr. Ben (a tie-in for homecoming with the band alumni).

There are at least five other B1G schools that have or will be doing Sound of Music as (at least) part of a halftime show. Purdue did Sound of Music a week ago. Michigan State included it in their 1965 show this past weekend. I believe Michigan has one planned, as well as Indiana. There is at least one other B1G school that I heard was doing it also, but I can't remember who that was. It wouldn't surprise me if it's tOSU, then tend to like those types of anniversaries, too.
 

Star Wars nerds want a Star Wars themed show.

umnhcky said:
Usually one halftime show revolves around some combination of movies, tv shows, broadway, etc. especially if there is a major anniversary to something that year.
If a big movie, or an additional part of a trilogy, comes out that can also be a tie-in for a show.

Sound of Music was chosen this year for two reasons: 50th anniversary and the opener and closer of the halftime show that was used was written by Dr. Ben (a tie-in for homecoming with the band alumni).

There are at least five other B1G schools that have or will be doing Sound of Music as (at least) part of a halftime show. Purdue did Sound of Music a week ago. Michigan State included it in their 1965 show this past weekend. I believe Michigan has one planned, as well as Indiana. There is at least one other B1G school that I heard was doing it also, but I can't remember who that was. It wouldn't surprise me if it's tOSU, then tend to like those types of anniversaries, too.[/QUO

I agree that it was difficult to hear the band on Saturday, in lower level corner near the top endzone. We get a lot of concourse noise in our seats so that makes for a difficult time to hear the band even when they are in the pit during games.
Star Wars nerds everywhere would like a Star Wars themed show.
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umnhcky said:
Usually one halftime show revolves around some combination of movies, tv shows, broadway, etc. especially if there is a major anniversary to something that year.
If a big movie, or an additional part of a trilogy, comes out that can also be a tie-in for a show.

Sound of Music was chosen this year for two reasons: 50th anniversary and the opener and closer of the halftime show that was used was written by Dr. Ben (a tie-in for homecoming with the band alumni).

There are at least five other B1G schools that have or will be doing Sound of Music as (at least) part of a halftime show. Purdue did Sound of Music a week ago. Michigan State included it in their 1965 show this past weekend. I believe Michigan has one planned, as well as Indiana. There is at least one other B1G school that I heard was doing it also, but I can't remember who that was. It wouldn't surprise me if it's tOSU, then tend to like those types of anniversaries, too.
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I get "why" they did it; I just don't get why they did it.
 

gopherdudepart2 said:
I agree that it was difficult to hear the band on Saturday, in lower level corner near the top endzone. We get a lot of concourse noise in our seats so that makes for a difficult time to hear the band even when they are in the pit during games.
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One piece of info that most people don't realize is that the stadium was designed to trap sound in. The slope of the upper and lower deck was influenced by that desire. TCF is a louder stadium than a typical 50,000 seat venue. The result, especially from the field-level, is what sounds like constant background chatter. It's great when we're on defense and everyone is really making a racket as the sound gets channeled toward the field, but works against the band as it cancels out some of its sound. With the addition of the temporary seating on the east side, the acoustics of the building have changed again.

Add to it the fact the we have had three 50K+ crowds that have been quite enthusiastic. The difference in the sound levels between what used to be a typical 35-40K crowd and a 50K+ crowd are pretty big.

gopherdudepart2 said:
Star Wars nerds everywhere would like a Star Wars themed show.
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Copyright is the issue here. John Williams is the devil when it comes to copyright permissions. He rarely lets groups do anything other than existing published arrangements. Most of the published marching band arrangements are written for crappy high school bands that are over-simplified. Sometimes you can get permission to adapt an existing published concert or orchestral versions of the scores, but lately he hasn't been allowing that either.

We do have custom arrangements of some music from the original trilogy that we already have the copyright to from before he became a tight-wad with permissions. Every once in awhile a decent arrangement of some of the newer music becomes available so you can piece together a show representing music from all of the movies. It will be interesting to see what published music comes out with the new movie. So, a Star Wars show isn't out of the realm of possibility.

(tOSU used to, and may still, have a band alum who worked for John Williams at some level. Interesting how they were always able to get copyright permission whenever they wanted to do any John Williams music. tOSU also has a significantly larger budget for copyright permissions and custom arrangements--with their instrumentation everything is custom.)

The average cost for copyright permission for a generic rock or pop tune is $430 (up from $350 last year). That's $430 plus the cost of paying an arranger to write the song which can be anywhere from $100-1250. If a medley contains parts of two or three songs, it's $430 per song that is sourced for the medley. That's assuming that whoever owns the copyright doesn't want to charge more. Average 3-4 songs (and/or medleys of songs) per halftime and seven halftimes a year--those costs add up fast.

Add to this, the copyright process can take from weeks to months to complete. Paperwork needs to be submitted in late June to early July to guarantee that permissions come through before the season begins. And, we've just scratched the surface. Bands used to be able to get away with not going through the whole process and performed whatever they wanted. Now, there's YouTube.

Fortunately, some of the arrangers that we've purchased from generally only charge $100 per tune if they have already written that arrangement for another group. But, we still have to pay for the copyright license. Sometimes that license will only be a three year license at which time you have to either renew at the current rate, or stop playing the tune.

A published marching band arrangement is generally a bit less than $100 (the copyright fees are much higher if the tune is published, but the cost is distributed over multiple copies that are sold). The drawback is you're limited to what those companies choose to put out in a given year. Sometimes the selection is pretty good, some years not so good. The song selection is usually set near the beginning of the calendar year, with the arrangements being released for sale in late April or early May. Any summer pop hits come out too late to make the cut and don't come out until the following spring.
 


I wasn't commenting on the sound of the band, just that the amount of concourse noise compared to the past, made it very difficult to hear the band on Saturday. Like I said if your near the top or last row near the concourses you get a lot of back ground noise that I wasn't used to when I used to sit in row 15 on the home side line. I understand acoustics, arrangements, a lot of the basic stuff(although I don't read music or play an instrument) and the cost nature of music arrangements as I have had three brothers who marched DCI (Scouts, Colts) and my oldest brother that marched UofMN band. My view isn't what it was but you get what you pay for I guess.

I wasn't talented in music like them, gave it up after 6th grade, and always tilted towards sports, baseball and football in particular so I was a lot different than the rest of my family. It's funny but you can hear the band better near the top of the stadium and upper deck than you can in the lower deck endzones and lower bowl corners, that must be the acoustics you were talking about. My sister in-law is a HS band director so she explains or corrects a lot of the stuff I don't know or if I make fun of, she is the one that say's it's not the size or the amount of instruments it is the ability to project and play correctly that matters. I know this I like the brass sound of some of the groups I have heard on the road,(Not Iowa they sound the concourse noise I was talking about) Ohio State is the best in conference but like you said UMNHockey they have the biggest budget and the most money.
 

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