B1G WEST TITLE may be squandered away this season.

[noamfromm]

No chance he is fired before the end of this season.

If Fleck follows the Robb Smith plan, then Sanford won't be fired until the middle of 2022 season.

The Robb Smith plan was firing someone after a year and a half -- which is where we are with Sanford. Not sure if you were thinking that Robb was fired in year three (two) or that the covid year doesn't count.

 

[MplsGopher]

The Robb Smith plan was firing someone after a year and a half -- which is where we are with Sanford. Not sure if you were thinking that Robb was fired in year three (two) or that the covid year doesn't count.

Obviously it doesn't, in my opinion.

I mean, would you fire a coach after just the covid year? We only played seven games. There was no pre-season. No spring ball. It was all zoom meetings.

Would guess Fleck agrees. I think even I agree, tbh.

 

[MplsGopher]

That said, would you fire a coach after just his first year, if you treat 2021 like the fair, full first year?

Even that seems tough.

 

[MplsGopher]

You need to rewatch the game as I just did. There were, maybe, two or three throws behind receivers.

It felt like more, but like I said they could be sticking out in my mind unfairly.

Also feels like it has been a problem this year, not just this game. Obviously not a problem when we win the game, but in those we are also able to run the ball to the win.

The bigger problem was getting behind the sticks with penalties and negative plays, piss poor protection, and playing down 14 as the game wore on. Throws under duress, long developing routes.

Well, if you don't throw the ball fast enough on a long route (ie, arm strength/ball velocity), then what you thought would be in front of the receiver turns out to be behind him ...

 

[hungan1]

Does it appear like the speed of the Gopher Offense has slowed down since Mike Sanford Jr's arrival?

Game time adjustments to counter the opponents' move weren't forthcoming or too little too late.

Did Sanford Jr's Offense get lazy and rely solely on the running game to bail them out?

I understand there are inexperienced WRs. They have to get them engaged by throwing high percentage pass plays to help their confidence.

It's a chess game that Sanford Jr doesn't know how to play. What exactly are the roles of "Co-Offensive Coordinators"? Can this be a source of conflict?

Here is a myopic vision of what is going on. I know too little.

Whatever ails the Gophers' offense better get fixed quickly to have a shot at the title. Teams now know how to probe the Gophers' weakness, especially on offense.

 

[cjbfbp]

Sanford Jr may have already ruined the chances of winning the Big Ten West title outright. How long does he intend to link his coaching career to Sanford Jr? This is Robb Smith 2.0.

Well, to be fair, Smith was 4-5 after 9 games when he was fired while Sanford is 6-3 after 9 games this season. Also, the average margin of 5 losses for Smith in that year was 22.2 while Sanford's average loss margin this year is 8.7.

Yes, I don't like Sanford and I hope the team gets a better OC next season but he hasn't been Rob Smith level this season.

 

[cjbfbp]

Yes the OP is saying don’t bother to watch the rest of the season. Damn this site turns into Husker max after a loss.

I really do think a fair minority of posters on sports boards have personality disorders or just a sad lack of perspective when it comes to sports or maybe just a dearth of other competing interests in life.

 

[SanDiegoGopherFan]

Its funny how PJ defended his OC by mentioning how many points they scored the previous 4 games.

my first thought was, someone please ask him why Tanner has regressed so badly. He hasnt theown a Td inhow many games.

it should he obvious that a team will go all out and do what IL did.

I dont understand PJs blind loyalty. He doesnt have a killer instinct. I wonder how much of it is related to him not being liked by many of his peers. Maybe hes so desperate to keep the few ppl that actually like him happy

 

[Dakota2]

That said, would you fire a coach after just his first year, if you treat 2021 like the fair, full first year?

Even that seems tough.

Penn St ... KC.

 

[Dakota2]

Well, to be fair, Smith was 4-5 after 9 games when he was fired while Sanford is 6-3 after 9 games this season. Also, the average margin of 5 losses for Smith in that year was 22.2 while Sanford's average loss margin this year is 8.7.

Yes, I don't like Sanford and I hope the team gets a better OC next season but he hasn't been Rob Smith level this season.

It is fair to look at talent level the two coaches had / have on their respective units. Sanford has far more experience and at minimum as much talent as Smith had on his defensive team.

 

[Gopher028]

Last Spring, PJ Fleck publicly stated that this 2021 Gopher football team is special. Here is a chance to win the Big Ten West outright.

With the extra year Covid exemption, suddenly the Gophers have the deepest and most experienced Offensive Lines in college football. The Transfer Portal also brought the key missing pieces for the Defense.

Well, I hate to crash his party. There are two intertwining problems.

1. They are stuck with a TOP game plan with no imaginative contingencies that they expected the rest of the Big Ten West will have difficulty with. Where are the slants, short passes, and putting the WRs in the best positions? I don't see the creativity of a Kirk Ciarrocca-run Offense.

They have KC's protege, Matt Simon who beat Auburn with the RPO.....

2. They have an Offensive Coordinator and QB coach who seem unimaginative speaking kindly. Well, he did mention they have some creative plays in mind for Illinois.
This guy did this to Jordan Love in a single year, and people blame Tanner Morgan...

*2018	Utah State	MWC	SO	QB	13	267	417	64.0	3567	8.6	9.4	32	6	158.3
*2019	Utah State	MWC	JR	QB	13	293	473	61.9	3402	7.2	6.4	20	17	129.1

TD/INT ratio went from 32/6 to 20/17 (lead NCAA in INTs)

Then came the monumental upset by BGSU. Elite coaches don't make this happen in their watch.
We thought the wake-up call had righted the ship because they won the next four games. Then came unranked Illinois and their veteran head coach Bielema.

The Gopher Offense seemed lost. The Defense seemed confused in the first half. Somewhere I heard that Illinois studied the BGSU film in detail as well the other Gopher games. They loaded the left side and disrupted Tanner Morgan's rhythm big time. Why couldn't Sanford Jr do something to counter the opponent's game planning? Why can't they make effective game-time adjustments?

The Gophers will be facing the top two Defense in the Big Ten West in the next three weeks. I think it may be too late.

PJ Fleck has the proof with the BGSU and Illinois losses. Sanford Jr may have already ruined the chances of winning the Big Ten West title outright. How long does he intend to link his coaching career to Sanford Jr? This is Robb Smith 2.0.

We all know what the singular problem is, and we've known for weeks. We knew last year (but gave him a year leniency because of the short covid year/dozens of players out/no training camp/lack of rapport. We knew when we hired Mike Sanford based on his credentials and the fact the better option was in house and just indeed beat Auburn.

The singular problem is PJ. He made this ill-advised hire and continues to stick with it. Why? Likely because he's his rah rah type and that seems to be most important than an offensive mind that can figure things out..

 

[cjbfbp]

It is fair to look at talent level the two coaches had / have on their respective units. Sanford has far more experience and at minimum as much talent as Smith had on his defensive team.

Well, if Sanford has "at minimum as much talent as Smith had on this defensive team," then he's done a much better job with his talent (not as good as we'd like but comparatively better than Smith).

I looked up the box score for Smith's last game before the firing (a 31-55 drubbing by Illinois) and I noticed the following defensive player names showing up for tackles and other defensive stats:

Blake Cashman
Carter Coughlin
Chris Williamson
Kamal Martin
Thomas Barber
Coney Durr
a young Jordan Howden (who led the team in tackles that game)
Jacob Huff
Julian Huff
Winston DeLattibouder
a young Boye Mafe

Smith definitely had some talent and experience on that team. A testament to that is that they gave up an average of 14.75 points per game against four P5 teams after his firing while giving up an average of 43.2 points per game against six P5 teams before his firing.

If you're going to argue with me, do your homework, because I will do mine.

 

[PMWinSTP]

That said, would you fire a coach after just his first year, if you treat 2021 like the fair, full first year?

Even that seems tough.

Utah St fired Gary Andersen three games into 2020 season.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Well, if Sanford has "at minimum as much talent as Smith had on this defensive team," then he's done a much better job with his talent (not as good as we'd like but comparatively better than Smith).

I looked up the box score for Smith's last game before the firing (a 31-55 drubbing by Illinois) and I noticed the following defensive player names showing up for tackles and other defensive stats:

Blake Cashman
Carter Coughlin
Chris Williamson
Kamal Martin
Thomas Barber
Coney Durr
a young Jordan Howden (who led the team in tackles that game)
Jacob Huff
Julian Huff
Winston DeLattibouder
a young Boye Mafe

Smith definitely had some talent and experience on that team. A testament to that is that they gave up an average of 14.75 points per game against four P5 teams after his firing while giving up an average of 43.2 points per game against six P5 teams before his firing.

If you're going to argue with me, do your homework, because I will do mine.

Well put. If our offense was struggling this much with Mo in the backfield and a healthy CRAB at WR I would be much more concerned about the OC. We certainly have a lot of experience on offense but have had a revolving door at the skill positions due to injuries and other factors over the course of the season.

 

[Dakota2]

Well, if Sanford has "at minimum as much talent as Smith had on this defensive team," then he's done a much better job with his talent (not as good as we'd like but comparatively better than Smith).

I looked up the box score for Smith's last game before the firing (a 31-55 drubbing by Illinois) and I noticed the following defensive player names showing up for tackles and other defensive stats:

Blake Cashman
Carter Coughlin
Chris Williamson
Kamal Martin
Thomas Barber
Coney Durr
a young Jordan Howden (who led the team in tackles that game)
Jacob Huff
Julian Huff
Winston DeLattibouder
a young Boye Mafe

Smith definitely had some talent and experience on that team. A testament to that is that they gave up an average of 14.75 points per game against four P5 teams after his firing while giving up an average of 43.2 points per game against six P5 teams before his firing.

If you're going to argue with me, do your homework, because I will do mine.

In doing your exhaustive homework did you run across experience and age comparisons of the two groups. Really deep digging would have revealed that was the first point I made.

Yes, great names on the Smith defense although most of them still young in 2018. But Sanford has many names in his group that will also be long remembered. You might say "at minimum as much talent as Smith had ... "

It's back to your room for more homework, sonny.

 

[Some guy]

Penn St ... KC.

And that went break even at best for them

2020 offense in big ten games
29.8 ppg
0 games under 17 points
1 game under 20 points (of 9)
4-5 record

2021 in big ten games
22.2ppg
1 game under 17
2 games under 20 (of 6)
3-3

 

[Dakota2]

Well put. If our offense was struggling this much with Mo in the backfield and a healthy CRAB at WR I would be much more concerned about the OC. We certainly have a lot of experience on offense but have had a revolving door at the skill positions due to injuries and other factors over the course of the season.

Notwithstanding the loss of an All-American, rushing production has stayed consistently strong. Passing game weakness is not tied exclusively or even a lot to CAB missing time. It is much more due to Sanford's poor schemes, play calling, and Morgan's generally sub-standard performance.

Big time coaches don't get a pass when one guy goes down and another misses some time. This team has plenty of depth as displayed by five running backs.

 

[Some guy]

Notwithstanding the loss of an All-American, rushing production has stayed consistently strong. Passing game weakness is not tied exclusively or even a lot to CAB missing time. It is much more due to Sanford's poor schemes, play calling, and Morgan's generally sub-standard performance.

Big time coaches don't get a pass when one guy goes down and another misses some time. This team has plenty of depth as displayed by five running backs.

Yeah. The wideout talent is an issue in that it isn’t good enough to bail out a bad scheme. At times in 2019 the wideout talent was good enough to balance out bad scheme at times

 

[Dakota2]

And that went break even at best for them

2020 offense in big ten games
29.8 ppg
0 games under 17 points
1 game under 20 points (of 9)
4-5 record

2021 in big ten games
22.2ppg
1 game under 17
2 games under 20 (of 6)
3-3

Hard to figure that move by Penn St.

 

[Dakota2]

Yeah. The wideout talent is an issue in that it isn’t good enough to bail out a bad scheme. At times in 2019 the wideout talent was good enough to balance out bad scheme

In a bad scheme with a QB off his game it's hard to evaluate WR talent. If your route plan sends the receiver to Hastings, we really don't know if he's good enough to get open since the QB was flushed and running backwards a day and a half earlier.

 

[Some guy]

In a bad scheme with a QB off his game it's hard to evaluate WR talent. If your route plan sends the receiver to Hastings, we really don't know if he's good enough to get open since the QB was flushed and running backwards a day and a half earlier.

Yeah. And it wasn’t all the time. But there were many times we were in the same situations in 2019 and bateman or Johnson would just flat out make an unbelievable play. And Morgan trusted them to so he heaved it up to them

 

[Some guy]

Hard to figure that move by Penn St.

They thought their bad QB play was because of their new coordinator

turns out that may not have been what did it

 

[cjbfbp]

Yes, great names on the Smith defense although most of them still young in 2018. But Sanford has many names in his group that will also be long remembered. You might say "at minimum as much talent as Smith had ... "

It's back to your room for more homework, sonny.

The majority of the names on that list were juniors and seniors at the time. While Coney Durr was an underclassman, it was his 3rd year at the U.

And don't call me "sonny." I'm very likely older than you (almost 65). People who can't keep up will always resort to lame cheap shots in lieu of substance.

 

[MaxyJR1]

So had we beat Illinois, we would have still had to beat Iowa and/or Wisconsin to get to the West Title. People are over reacting a bit. The teams we have to beat are still on the schedule.

Lose to either team and they win the tie-breaker over us.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Notwithstanding the loss of an All-American, rushing production has stayed consistently strong. Passing game weakness is not tied exclusively or even a lot to CAB missing time. It is much more due to Sanford's poor schemes, play calling, and Morgan's generally sub-standard performance.

Big time coaches don't get a pass when one guy goes down and another misses some time. This team has plenty of depth as displayed by five running backs.

So does Sanford get credit for the run game performing at a high level in spite of being down to the guys who were 5th and 6th on the depth chart to start the season? Irving and Thomas are both talented players but they are also freshman and I would argue they played like freshmen on Saturday.

People want to bash the guy for poor offensive performances in a few games but don't want to acknowledge that he has been put in a tough spot personnel wise all season.

And again, this is not to say that Sanford is great or the long term solution but people need to look at the big picture too and realize that we are dealing with significant injuries on offense that can destroy teams yet we are sitting at 6-3, and tied for first in the division. OC should get at least a small amount of credit for that.

 

[cjbfbp]

So had we beat Illinois, we would have still had to beat Iowa and/or Wisconsin to get to the West Title. People are over reacting a bit. The teams we have to beat are still on the schedule.

That may be true but I'd rather finish 10-2 and not win the West (like 2019) than finish 8-4 and win the West especially since winning the West typically earns you a date with Ohio State and another loss.

 

[Some guy]

So had we beat Illinois, we would have still had to beat Iowa and/or Wisconsin to get to the West Title. People are over reacting a bit. The teams we have to beat are still on the schedule.

Lose to either team and they win the tie-breaker over us.

Illinois game matters for bowl section
Matters for final rankings potentially


It would matter if Minnesota loses to Iowa but beats Indiana and wisconsin and then Iowa wins the next two.

or

if Minnesota beats Iowa and wisconsin…loses to Indiana but Purdue wins out .

 

[cjbfbp]

And again, this is not to say that Sanford is great or the long term solution but people need to look at the big picture too and realize that we are dealing with significant injuries on offense that can destroy teams yet we are sitting at 6-3, and tied for first in the division. OC should get at least a small amount of credit for that.

Agreed. Our offense may be below what we'd like and maybe what it should be but it has been only terrible in spots. In nine games, we've scored 30 or more 6 times and under 20 twice.

 

[MaxyJR1]

Illinois game matters for bowl section
Matters for final rankings potentially


It would matter if Minnesota loses to Iowa but beats Indiana and wisconsin and then Iowa wins the next two.

or

if Minnesota beats Iowa and wisconsin…loses to Indiana but Purdue wins out .

No because if we lose to Iowa and had beaten Illinois we would both end up with 2 losses and Iowa would have the tie-breaker. It hurts, but in the end I don't care how we get to Indy.

 

[MaxyJR1]

That may be true but I'd rather finish 10-2 and not win the West (like 2019) than finish 8-4 and win the West especially since winning the West typically earns you a date with Ohio State and another loss.

You would rather go 10-2 and miss the the B1G title game? NO, thanks.