Athletes Cannot Choose Their Degrees

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Gopherguy0723

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http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/01/o...rd-justice-in-college-sports.html?ref=opinion

"In his sophomore year, dreaming of going to medical school someday, Colter “attempted to take a required chemistry course.” However, “his coaches and advisors discouraged him from taking the course because it conflicted with morning football practices.” Eventually, after falling behind other pre-med students, he wound up switching his major to psychology, “which he believed to be less demanding,” according to Ohr."

Nice job Northwestern. I applaud you for being so altruistic and righteous. If only we should be so grateful to be told what degrees we can obtain.
 

Yawn


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

I figured this was common knowledge. My sister walked on to the women's golf team at the U and quit after the first year because she wasn't going to be able to take pre-med classes.
 

Someone needs to kick Colter in the nuts. Nobody held a gun to his head to play football for starters he could have not played and then taken whatever classes he wanted to; of course on his dime. Second, just because he was falling behind doesn't mean he couldn't have caught up when his football career was over by going another year or half a year to get it done. Some kids who have jobs I'm sure conflict with what classes they need to take and that delays them, too. I find his whole schtick very tiresome.
 



After reading this, the conclusion I came to is that he chose being an ATH on the football team over becoming a doctor
 


I'm sympathetic to the athletes. That said lets stop acting like athletes face issues in college others don't. Tons of kids can't take the classes they want because they're not in school in the first place, lol. Other people work through college and have to fit their class schedule around their work schedule. Other kids are involved in other activities they feel are important and at times have to choose between participating in their club/organization and taking a class only offered at a certain time. The truth is that some majors are more challenging than others and just like anything else you need to research that before you enroll.
 

dpodoll68 said:
False thread title is false.
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You are correct that the title of the thread is very misleading. I found this passage from the story interesting:

Ohr’s essential point was that unlike the rest of the student body at Northwestern, football players had little control over their lives. Their schedules were dictated by the needs of the football team. They had bosses in the form of coaches and other university officials who could fire them. They had to abide by a million petty N.C.A.A. rules, and they lacked many of the freedoms and rights taken for granted by students who didn’t play sports.

The obvious point that is missing from that passage is that yes while football players have many demands placed on them that are not placed on the bulk of the student body population they are also getting their school paid for by the football team. Therefore I have no issue what so ever with the team dictating to some degree what classes the players can and can not take based on scheduling. If medical school was that important to him then don't take the teams money, quit the team and pay your own way through school like everyone else at the school has to.
 




I thought this was common knowledge. If you are getting a free education to play football, then football is priority. If your classes conflict with practice, then you take different classes.


If you wanted to be a doctor then pay for it yourself.
 

afurry91 said:
If you are getting a free education to play football, then football is priority. If your classes conflict with practice, then you take different classes. If you wanted to be a doctor then pay for it yourself.
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Or the student athletes can unionize and negotiate the terms and conditions of their football practices, class schedules, and compensation for putting their health and lives at risk for dear old Alma Mater. This is coming whether people like it or not.
 




MNVCGUY said:
You are correct that the title of the thread is very misleading. I found this passage from the story interesting:

Ohr’s essential point was that unlike the rest of the student body at Northwestern, football players had little control over their lives. Their schedules were dictated by the needs of the football team. They had bosses in the form of coaches and other university officials who could fire them. They had to abide by a million petty N.C.A.A. rules, and they lacked many of the freedoms and rights taken for granted by students who didn’t play sports.

The obvious point that is missing from that passage is that yes while football players have many demands placed on them that are not placed on the bulk of the student body population they are also getting their school paid for by the football team. Therefore I have no issue what so ever with the team dictating to some degree what classes the players can and can not take based on scheduling. If medical school was that important to him then don't take the teams money, quit the team and pay your own way through school like everyone else at the school has to.
Click to expand...


So is the essence of the article, which I'm choosing not to read, saying that athletes should be able to go to whatever class they want, skip practice when they want, miss games if they have a boo-boo and get paid a million bucks doing it?
 

MNVCGUY said:
You are correct that the title of the thread is very misleading. I found this passage from the story interesting:

Ohr’s essential point was that unlike the rest of the student body at Northwestern, football players had little control over their lives. Their schedules were dictated by the needs of the football team. They had bosses in the form of coaches and other university officials who could fire them. They had to abide by a million petty N.C.A.A. rules, and they lacked many of the freedoms and rights taken for granted by students who didn’t play sports.

The obvious point that is missing from that passage is that yes while football players have many demands placed on them that are not placed on the bulk of the student body population they are also getting their school paid for by the football team. Therefore I have no issue what so ever with the team dictating to some degree what classes the players can and can not take based on scheduling. If medical school was that important to him then don't take the teams money, quit the team and pay your own way through school like everyone else at the school has to.
Click to expand...

I know nothing of Kain Colter other than he's a pretty good football player. But what if football was the only way he was going to get his college paid for (I don't know that to be the case. Simply conjecture on my part.)? It would seem that the fair exchange would be Colter doing his level best on the football field and in return, he gets to pursue the degree he wants to pursue. Northwestern didn't have to offer him a scholarship, but Colter didn't have to take the offer either. In fairness, Colter did have other offers and this probably could have been cleared up in the process of his choosing his school. On the other hand, maybe Northwestern told him "Yes, you can do that" and then changed their minds. I can see both sides here.

What I find delicious is that I've always thought Fitzgerald to be a phony f*ck and this kind of bears it out.
 

50PoundHead said:
I know nothing of Kain Colter other than he's a pretty good football player. But what if football was the only way he was going to get his college paid for (I don't know that to be the case. Simply conjecture on my part.)? It would seem that the fair exchange would be Colter doing his level best on the football field and in return, he gets to pursue the degree he wants to pursue. Northwestern didn't have to offer him a scholarship, but Colter didn't have to take the offer either. In fairness, Colter did have other offers and this probably could have been cleared up in the process of his choosing his school. On the other hand, maybe Northwestern told him "Yes, you can do that" and then changed their minds. I can see both sides here.

What I find delicious is that I've always thought Fitzgerald to be a phony f*ck and this kind of bears it out.
Click to expand...

Saying that Northwestern didn't let Kain Colter do what he wanted to is a bald-faced lie. (I'm not saying that you're saying that, I'm saying that the article is saying that, and the OP is most certainly saying that.) They are paying for his education, so they have a right to make suggestions. No one is saying he was forced to do or not do anything. If he went into Pat Fitzgerald's office and said, "I'm going pre-med," and then did it, what are they going to do? Kick him out of school? Rescind his scholarship? Please. What this all boils down to is that Kain Colter is an entitled twit who doesn't like people telling him what to do, even if that is merely a suggestion. The sooner that Kain Colter learns that people will be telling him what to do for the rest of his life, the better off he'll be.
 

50PoundHead said:
I know nothing of Kain Colter other than he's a pretty good football player. But what if football was the only way he was going to get his college paid for (I don't know that to be the case. Simply conjecture on my part.)? It would seem that the fair exchange would be Colter doing his level best on the football field and in return, he gets to pursue the degree he wants to pursue. Northwestern didn't have to offer him a scholarship, but Colter didn't have to take the offer either. In fairness, Colter did have other offers and this probably could have been cleared up in the process of his choosing his school. On the other hand, maybe Northwestern told him "Yes, you can do that" and then changed their minds. I can see both sides here.

What I find delicious is that I've always thought Fitzgerald to be a phony f*ck and this kind of bears it out.
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To the part in bold that is how the system already works. The point of contention comes if there is a conflict between class schedule and football schedule as to which should win out. In my opinion football should win out in that case because football is paying the bills. I think in general teams do what they can to accommodate the students and their class schedules but their #1 priority is still to win games so the accommodation is only going to go so far.

Not sure this story proves Fitzgerald is a phony, if anything it just proves that despite their overall reputation, Northwestern is not that different then everyone else when it comes to trying to win football games.
 

I don't think anyone knows what happened. I tend to agree with you that if Colter wanted to go pre-med, there's probably nothing Northwestern could have done without creating a public relations nightmare for themselves. I think my point is that this should have all been ironed out in the process of Colter selecting his school. He could have transferred had he wanted.

I just think Fitgerald is a talking jackass and while I don't wish ill on anyone per se, I wouldn't mind if this took him down a peg.
 

MNVCGUY said:
To the part in bold that is how the system already works. The point of contention comes if there is a conflict between class schedule and football schedule as to which should win out. In my opinion football should win out in that case because football is paying the bills. I think in general teams do what they can to accommodate the students and their class schedules but their #1 priority is still to win games so the accommodation is only going to go so far.

Not sure this story proves Fitzgerald is a phony, if anything it just proves that despite their overall reputation, Northwestern is not that different then everyone else when it comes to trying to win football games.
Click to expand...

I think Fitzgerald is a phony, but I realize it's probably not a widely held opinion. I find both sides of the story difficult to believe. Doesn't NW have summer school? Don't they have academic counselors that help the kids with their schedules? And I agree with your final point that NW isn't any different than anyone else when it comes to these things.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Saying that Northwestern didn't let Kain Colter do what he wanted to is a bald-faced lie. (I'm not saying that you're saying that, I'm saying that the article is saying that, and the OP is most certainly saying that.) They are paying for his education, so they have a right to make suggestions. No one is saying he was forced to do or not do anything. If he went into Pat Fitzgerald's office and said, "I'm going pre-med," and then did it, what are they going to do? Kick him out of school? Rescind his scholarship? Please. What this all boils down to is that Kain Colter is an entitled twit who doesn't like people telling him what to do, even if that is merely a suggestion. The sooner that Kain Colter learns that people will be telling him what to do for the rest of his life, the better off he'll be.
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dpo- I don't always agree with your posts, but this is pretty darn spot on!
He can also take courses at different times- I never came across a pre-major chem, calc, physics or bio class that wasn't offered at 3-5 different times. This is more on him and his advisor! I didn't like taking calc at 4pm 5 days a week either(cut into happy hour, but I did).
 

I had a similar issue while I was in school. There was only one section of Advanced Calculus that I needed to take for graduation, and it was offered at 3:00 or thereabouts, right in the middle of track practice. When I told my event coach that we'd have to work around this class, he was pissed. The big difference in my situation was that I was on 10% scholarship for my senior year only. The rest of the time I either had nothing or a book scholarship. I told him I didn't have a choice, unless he suggest I not graduate. It is not unheard of to miss practice periodically if you don't have a choice because of class conflicts.
 

“his coaches and advisors discouraged him from taking the course because it conflicted with morning football practices.”

I guess I'm missing why that is so terrible. It doesn't say they forced him to switch majors, Colter switched on his own just because of falling behind a little.

Jon Christenson is pre-med and making it work. Colter could've stuck with it if he truly wanted to be a pre-med major. Just because you're falling behind "non-athlete" students in terms of scheduling doesn't mean you have to scrap the major all together. Take the class a different semester, at a different time, or online. Getting your tuition paid for for being a football player means football is a large part of your responsibility as a student-athlete. Unless there's more to the story I don't have much sympathy for him.
 

So are they telling us he only had 1 shot to take a physics class? I find that hard to believe at that big of a school which must have a ton of kids who are pre-med. Take it in the spring or summer! How hard is that? The kid has 5 years fully paid for of under-grad. He has plenty of time.

Also, the whole argument that he would not be able to go to school w/out his football scholarship is just crap. If he is smart enough to be pre-med at Northwestern, he could have gotten into nearly any school, and probably gotten some academic scholarships. But if not, what is so hard these days paying your own way? My parents didnt pay for me. I paid for my own 5 years while working a job and taking out loans. Figure it out. Dont be an entitled little prick about it.
 

Gopherguy0723 said:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/01/o...rd-justice-in-college-sports.html?ref=opinion

"In his sophomore year, dreaming of going to medical school someday, Colter “attempted to take a required chemistry course.” However, “his coaches and advisors discouraged him from taking the course because it conflicted with morning football practices.” Eventually, after falling behind other pre-med students, he wound up switching his major to psychology, “which he believed to be less demanding,” according to Ohr."

Nice job Northwestern. I applaud you for being so altruistic and righteous. If only we should be so grateful to be told what degrees we can obtain.
Click to expand...

Again, as others have mentioned I have a tough time believing that he either couldn't take the class at a different time or that he couldn't work with his advisor to come up with an alternate class, potentially online. When I was in college I couldn't get into a required chemistry course and my advisor let me substitute a different one and I'm a Chemical Engineering major!

I will say, when Brewster was coach one of the Gopher players who will not be named had his major changed without his knowledge. He went to register for classes and was told he had to be an "X" major, he told the person he was, and they said no, he was now a "Y" major. He went to his advisor, and his advisor figured out that it was someone in the football organization that changed his major. He confronted his position coach and the coach said roughly "yeah, I authorized it because I think being an "X" major doesn't allow you enough time for football". The player in question changed it back himself and his relationship with the coaches was never the same. But they didn't kick him off the team or revoke his scholarship. And though I won't name him most readers would have to look the guy up to figure out who he was so it's not like he was the same level of impact as Colter.

So technically they maybe could have changed his major but this sounds at first blush like a case where he never even considered different options and took the easy way out.
 

I think this is a kind of a big deal.

True, you can hang around for another year of courses or whatever.

But if you want to be a doctor or an electrical engineer (or whatever) there's a sequence of courses that take a few years to accomplish.

Obviously some students pull this off.

The NCAA should more strictly limit practice time. It's insane already. I would chop off 5 hours a week that a student can be in practice or even in the building.
 

Studwell55 said:
The NCAA should more strictly limit practice time. It's insane already. I would chop off 5 hours a week that a student can be in practice or even in the building.
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This is absolutely correct. The large majority of posts in this thread provide all of the evidence anyone needs to show how priorities are completely out of whack in America.
 

UpnorthGo4 said:
This is absolutely correct. The large majority of posts in this thread provide all of the evidence anyone needs to show how priorities are completely out of whack in America.
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Seriously? The kids and their parents know what is expected of them before they sign on the dotted line. No guns to heads, nothing bad will happen if they decide not play college football; in fact there are huge parties thrown at the kids' HS and probably at a majority of their home when they sign to celebrate the awesome chance they've been given to go to school free and play football and eat well while there and get tutors and live in the best housing, etc, etc, etc. There is a nice little thing called the MIAC where kids can go if they want to spend about 3 hours a day during the season and next to nothing during the off-season concentrating on football where they can take as many physics classes as they desire. It's really not that hard, these kids live a pretty darn good life with all the privileges they get by being on the football team. I know, I've been there. The only thing I feel sorry for the kids nowadays is the requirement that they have to spend all summer on campus. Back in the day, the summer after your senior year in HS was a time to enjoy one last hurrah with the buddies back home and then likely the first and maybe second year most players spent summers in their hometowns, too. Most juniors and seniors would stick around campus during summer. I don't like how the summer has morphed, but the rest of it for the most part these kids are living the really good life and again, I wish someone would just kick Colter in the nuts; or perhaps his dad for raising such a whiny litte sh@t.
 

I see some folks are continuing with the ludicrous argument that these athletes are "victims." Carry on, it makes for great entertainment.
 

I love the argument that some of you are making that the players got full rides so they aren't employees or due compensation. Well, the whole point the players are making is that they can't negotiate directly with the schools for "fair" compensation because of NCAA rules. They aren't saying they got nothing, they are saying that Texas A & M was bragging about the $500 million or whatever that Johnny Football was worth to the school and Johnny got investigated for making $5k signing autographs because that is against the NCAA rules.

You all can live in your lala land, but the courts and law on the side of the players and the NCAA will lose this in courts. The days of NCAA controlling player compensation is fast coming to an end and while I hate what it is going to do to college athletics and fully support any person getting paid what they are worth and negotiating their value. Yes, I am a good republican who loves a free market system.
 

GopherinPhilly said:
I love the argument that some of you are making that the players got full rides so they aren't employees or due compensation. Well, the whole point the players are making is that they can't negotiate directly with the schools for "fair" compensation because of NCAA rules. They aren't saying they got nothing, they are saying that Texas A & M was bragging about the $500 million or whatever that Johnny Football was worth to the school and Johnny got investigated for making $5k signing autographs because that is against the NCAA rules.

You all can live in your lala land, but the courts and law on the side of the players and the NCAA will lose this in courts. The days of NCAA controlling player compensation is fast coming to an end and while I hate what it is going to do to college athletics and fully support any person getting paid what they are worth and negotiating their value. Yes, I am a good republican who loves a free market system.
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Players should be allowed to market themselves and make money just the way any other college student on an academic scholarship is able to make money if the opportunity arises.

The changes should end there. No unions telling the schools when they can practice or any of that bologna. The NCAA is a joke, but that doesn't mean that fighting back by unionizing fixes the issue. It only compounds it.
 

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