An Oklahoma high school basketball game ended with a final score of 4-2 because one team held the ball the whole time (video)

Donate To GopherHole

If I'm reffing, I probably tell the AD at halftime that I have better things to do and they can find someone else to stand on the court.
 

Were they making an intentional statement in favor of shot clocks?
 


Powder said:
One game out of 500,000 played across the country in a year does not mean we need a shot clock. If you are in favor of a shot clock there are much better arguments than this one.
Click to expand...
What is the argument against them at this point? In past decades cost could be argued I suppose but it's pretty easy to implement now.
 


I've been to Weatherford. That is all.
 

howeda7 said:
What is the argument against them at this point? In past decades cost could be argued I suppose but it's pretty easy to implement now.
Click to expand...

I'm not totally against it and I know others will blast what I am going to say but my two biggest arguments are:

1. Money. To do this nationwide would cost close to $37,500,000 annually. 15,000 schools x 2 to account for boys and girls, x $50 per game to operate x 25 games per year. This doesn't count the cost of installation which I am totally guessing at $2,500 per gym. That's another $37,500,000.

2. Strategy. Personally, this is my main reason for not wanting it. All jokes aside, high school coaches don't get to recruit the type of kid they want in their program. A high school coach needs to be flexible on what they do. One year they have size, other years they don't. I don't think they should be forced into a certain style. To me it's no different than requiring every team to full court press the whole game. Don't take a tool away from a coach that needs it to win.

This isn't a problem that needs a $75,000,000 fix. I would much rather see those funds used in the chemistry class or making sure all kids get iPads in the school or whatever other needs there are in school.
 

as many know, MN will begin using shot clocks for all games next season. This season, shot clocks may be used by mutual agreement for non-conf games.

I was doing PA for a holiday tournament - 8 games in two days. We used the shot clock. I think there were 4 or 5 violations - but all involved the same team. this was a girls team that was by far the worst in the tournament. for the other games, there were a few times when the clock ran down and someone would throw up a rushed shot, but most of the time, I really didn't notice the clock was there.

the argument against the clock is that it takes away strategy from the game - preventing a team from slowing down the game if it feels that gives them the best chance to win. that might be true in a few occasions.

on the flip side, I think it might reduce the amount of fouling at the end of games. a team with a lead can't just hold the ball and force the other team to foul. with the clock, you have a chance to get a defensive stop without fouling.
 

I've always thought of the shot clock as analagous to the infield fly rule in baseball: necessary evils that address inherent fundamental flaws in the game.
 



I don't see a need, if that is being done to you just go out and pressure the ball. It forces a change up in style which I think is good.
 

And some of you have touched on the other issue; it just doesn't come into play all that often. It's an expense that doesn't fix a whole lot and MANY games won't be a factor at all.
 

In wrestling, they have the "stalling" rule where you get a warning and if you keep stalling your opponent gets a point. Do basically the same here. If a ref thinks you're just stalling and not actively trying to score, then they give a warning and if you keep stalling the other team gets the ball.
 

Powder said:
I'm not totally against it and I know others will blast what I am going to say but my two biggest arguments are:

1. Money. To do this nationwide would cost close to $37,500,000 annually. 15,000 schools x 2 to account for boys and girls, x $50 per game to operate x 25 games per year. This doesn't count the cost of installation which I am totally guessing at $2,500 per gym. That's another $37,500,000.

2. Strategy. Personally, this is my main reason for not wanting it. All jokes aside, high school coaches don't get to recruit the type of kid they want in their program. A high school coach needs to be flexible on what they do. One year they have size, other years they don't. I don't think they should be forced into a certain style. To me it's no different than requiring every team to full court press the whole game. Don't take a tool away from a coach that needs it to win.

This isn't a problem that needs a $75,000,000 fix. I would much rather see those funds used in the chemistry class or making sure all kids get iPads in the school or whatever other needs there are in school.
Click to expand...
On #2, it doesn't have to be 30 seconds. It can be 45 seconds or even a minute, so it wouldn't require anyone to change their style of play unless they're doing BS like this.

And frankly, if cost is that big an issue, the regular timekeeper can keep it manually and flash a card or something when they're 10 seconds left, at least for regular season games. If you have it at 45 seconds, it's not going to be an issue 95% of the time.
 



Powder said:
I'm not totally against it and I know others will blast what I am going to say but my two biggest arguments are:

1. Money. To do this nationwide would cost close to $37,500,000 annually. 15,000 schools x 2 to account for boys and girls, x $50 per game to operate x 25 games per year. This doesn't count the cost of installation which I am totally guessing at $2,500 per gym. That's another $37,500,000.
Click to expand...
But that number gets divided up among all 15,000 schools. It's not like one entity has to come up with over $37M.

And why would it be an additional $50/game to operate? And even if it was $50/game, couldn't you just add $0.25 to each ticket and recoup that pretty easily?
 

Powder said:
And some of you have touched on the other issue; it just doesn't come into play all that often. It's an expense that doesn't fix a whole lot and MANY games won't be a factor at all.
Click to expand...
95% of games that it won’t be a factor. It’ll become an issue because of it not being ran correctly. You’ll see stoppages for that. I think you could just make a stalling rule instead.
 


Could you spend the money on something more worthwhile...almost always.
The only hardship is on small schools. Less money, less fans to increase revenue from, less available workers. They need the ability/source to request some financial assistance if necessary.

I think it's time for or past the time schools need shot clocks. Good that Minnesota is. Going to be games lost because some panicked worker totally screws the clock up. Just like there are games lost because the referees are completely clueless. That is part of life.
 

Gopherfan84 said:
95% of games that it won’t be a factor. It’ll become an issue because of it not being ran correctly. You’ll see stoppages for that. I think you could just make a stalling rule instead.
Click to expand...
That could work too. You could simply say that the refs have the discretion to give a team a warning if they hold the ball for more than a minute and if they do it again, declare a technical foul and a turnover every time they do it.
 

as noted above, schools will have to pay someone to run the shot clock. that can vary from school to school. I do the PA duties for home games at my local school, and I get $30 a game. I would guess the other workers at the scorers table get the same. (but I don't know that for a fact...)

and yes, the person running the clock needs to know what they're doing. the MN rules are a lot simpler than the college rules on resets. in college, you have a lot of partial resets, but in HS, it's almost always a full reset.

as I said, I worked a holiday tournament with the shot clock. our clock operator was a former head coach. In 8 games I think we had 1 or 2 instances where the clock was not reset properly. One was a missed shot where the clock operator thought it hit the rim, but the refs ruled that it did not hit the rim, which is a bang-bang judgement call.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
as noted above, schools will have to pay someone to run the shot clock. that can vary from school to school. I do the PA duties for home games at my local school, and I get $30 a game. I would guess the other workers at the scorers table get the same. (but I don't know that for a fact...)

and yes, the person running the clock needs to know what they're doing. the MN rules are a lot simpler than the college rules on resets. in college, you have a lot of partial resets, but in HS, it's almost always a full reset.

as I said, I worked a holiday tournament with the shot clock. our clock operator was a former head coach. In 8 games I think we had 1 or 2 instances where the clock was not reset properly. One was a missed shot where the clock operator thought it hit the rim, but the refs ruled that it did not hit the rim, which is a bang-bang judgement call.
Click to expand...
Spot on it’s going to create more headaches than it’s worth imo. There is a reason why ADs pushed back on it for so long
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom