A few points on Flip Saunders

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minngg said:
But you can argue that the poster's belief is based on hope? Guess you showed him.
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We stand to lose a lot by firing Tubby. Aside from the obvious ($ in buyout money), there will be a perception, accurate or not, that Minnesota doesn't know its place and is pulling the trigger too soon on a future HOF coach with a national championship on his resume. None of this is based on hope. These are facts.

In order to make a coaching change, you have to have a basis that what you will gain will outweigh those losses. In order to make such a drastic decision, I expect that those doing so would have a rationale that is based on more than hope. Arguments for a hypothetical young mid-major coach at least have some basis in his own history, as he actually has been a college head coach and (hopefully) has had success if he is being considered for a Big Ten job. There is nothing in Flip's history to suggest that he would be successful as a Division I head coach in general, or as Minnesota's head coach. It is all based on hope.
 

savagerube said:
I agree with you on that. However Aldeman's presence is on par with Rubio's. It still doesn't help your original argument about Flip being a better coach hands down. You still haven't proven that. You have proved that Monson went to an elite 8 and then alluded to the "fact" that he could reach multiple final fours with the Kentucky Basketball teams during Tubby's tenure.
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I don't have to prove it. Just like you can't prove Tubby is better. We both have our opinions that's all.
 

Parski1 said:
Enough of the Flip for coach crap! The man can't make it in the NBA and has not been around college and recruiting. Just because he was a Gopher does not mean he should coach the Gophers.
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This is the type of idiocy my post was designed for. Flip Saunders has been to 4 conference finals in his career, and we have a genius saying that "he can't make it in the NBA". I wasn't attempting to gloss over Saunders negatives, nor did I mention what I believe are his positives as a coach. I was just attempting (unsuccessfully for people like the quoted poster) to put his NBA career in context.

Flip was eliminated in the first round a lot with the Wolves
Flip's teams were overly reliant on the jump shot in Minnesota
Flip was known for his offense and not his defenes in the NBA (though he was one of the first coaches to effectively use the match up zone effectively in the NBA).
Flip couldn't get Detroit back to the NBA Finals after Larry Brown left
 

Flip does not get a pass in Washington. He was given a veteran team in Washington and he could not adapt to the skillset. A lot of those players have been productive elsewhere (Haywood, M. Miller, C. Butler, Jamison). Yeah, he had to deal with drama but he did not deal with it well. Then he won the lottery with a no-brainer #1 pick in John Wall. Wall hasn't lived up to his billings. Now, if Tubby is partially to blame for Ralph not coming into his own, why does Flip get a pass on John Wall? The consensus #1 pick in the draft who Flip tried to turn into Brandon (stop and pop). Flip did not do a good job in Washington and he was part of the entire problem. He should not be casted off as a victim of mismanagement, he was part of the mismanagement.

In Detroit....yeah, he walked into a ready made team. He didn't do bad. But he didn't do great either.

In MN, he was good for awhile. He was able to put together a team that fit his wants (with McHale), he hit the lottery with KG and Steph, and then we never really went anywhere. A prime KG was a sure-fire Hall of Fame, all time great type of talent, and he was never able to make it work.

Flip seems like a nice guy and he did ok in the NBA. But I sure would have a hard time calling him a success.
 

Saunders shouldn't be exalted just because he has a Minnesota connection. But neither should he be under-rated for that reason. We Minnesotans seem to always assume that someone or something from here can't be as good as the same thing from elsewhere. Besides, our inability to win in football and basketball are not due to inadequate coaching -- we've failed under many coaches. Something else is fundamentally wrong with our strategy given our environment. Until we apply the right strategy, we won't improve.
 


Wow, is this a hot-button issue or what?

1. Flip is a heck of a coach.
2. He relates well to young people.
3. He loves the U.

That's kind of what I think I know. What I don't know is how those qualities or sentiment would necessarily transfer to coaching success in a hypothetical situation. He's not a spring chicken, and this is a young man's coaching game.
 

The Gophers need a program builder and Saunders is not a program builder. Move on.
 

Bad Gopher said:
Wow, is this a hot-button issue or what?

1. Flip is a heck of a coach.
2. He relates well to young people.
3. He loves the U.

That's kind of what I think I know. What I don't know is how those qualities or sentiment would necessarily transfer to coaching success in a hypothetical situation. He's not a spring chicken, and this is a young man's coaching game.
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What are you basing the "relating well to young people" off of?
 




zambam said:
What are you basing the "relating well to young people" off of?
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The things I've read and the interviews I've listened to about his work with Marbury and Garnett when they were rookies and young players. Those two guys had their heads on the straightest when Flip was there. He had Marbury convinced (temporarily at least) that the world didn't revolve around him.
 

Love all the "experts" on Flip and his coaching abilities. He is on KFAN with Burrito on Fridays and it is fun to listen to him talk BB on both the college and pro levels. People forget he was an assistant coach for the Gophers for five years I believe under Dutcher. He also played with with some Gopher greats like Michael Thompson, Osborne Lockhart and I believe Ray Williams.
 

tap said:
Love all the "experts" on Flip and his coaching abilities. He is on KFAN with Burrito on Fridays and it is fun to listen to him talk BB on both the college and pro levels. People forget he was an assistant coach for the Gophers for five years I believe under Dutcher. He also played with with some Gopher greats like Michael Thompson, Osborne Lockhart and I believe Ray Williams.
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I don't think people here are unaware of his Gopher connections. That's why everyone thinks he will take the job, actually.
 

Bad Gopher said:
The things I've read and the interviews I've listened to about his work with Marbury and Garnett when they were rookies and young players. Those two guys had their heads on the straightest when Flip was there. He had Marbury convinced (temporarily at least) that the world didn't revolve around him.
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However his young team in Washington never seemed to connect with him. You are taking young people from 15 years ago and assuming he will be able to connect with young people now, despite recent things that suggest otherwise.
 



Bad Gopher said:
The things I've read and the interviews I've listened to about his work with Marbury and Garnett when they were rookies and young players. Those two guys had their heads on the straightest when Flip was there. He had Marbury convinced (temporarily at least) that the world didn't revolve around him.
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I think it's only fair to say that his ability to work with younger players is a big question mark.

He got along good with KG, but KG is about the only young player to have any success with Flip. The Wolves were always a veteran team.

The Marbury situation....well, i'm not going to blame him for anything, but that wasn't a great union.

The Washingston situation was a catastrophe.

Now, I don't know if any coach would have had difficulty with KG. On the flipside, I don't know if any coach could have connected better with Marbury or the Washington squad.

For me......"who knows?" is the only plausible answer for the question about Flip's ability to coach younger players.
 

zambam said:
However his young team in Washington never seemed to connect with him. You are taking young people from 15 years ago and assuming he will be able to connect with young people now, despite recent things that suggest otherwise.
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Point taken. Again, I wrote what I think I know, in case anyone happens to be interested.
 

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