6'10+ Murphy/Mbakwe

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touchdownvikings

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Imagine this team with a pair of 6'10"+ Mbakwe's/Morphy's. It would solve the team's largest issues:

(1) On a night when the opposing team can't shoot, they adjust by going inside, as all teams do when they can't shoot. We can't answer that - no rim protector. If we had a 6'10"+ M/M, we could exploit an off-night shooting on the part of our opponent.

(2) When trying to close out a game, we can't get defensive stops, because we can't grab rebounds. But if we had a 6'10"+ M/M, we'd get the rebound on the defensive end and close out games.

(3) On a night the Gophers couldn't shoot, we'd have someone to get the ball inside to to muscle it in. I'm not suggesting that our pair of 6'10"+ M/M's need to be offensively talented. They can be limited. Just good enough to muscle it in.

I'm saying that a pair of 6'10"+ M/M type players who can rebound, protect the rim and produce some offense with limited skills would turn this team into a winner. Who's with me? Let's get this done.
 

touchdownvikings said:
Imagine this team with a pair of 6'10"+ Mbakwe's/Morphy's. It would solve the team's largest issues:

(1) On a night when the opposing team can't shoot, they adjust by going inside, as all teams do when they can't shoot. We can't answer that - no rim protector. If we had a 6'10"+ M/M, we could exploit an off-night shooting on the part of our opponent.

(2) When trying to close out a game, we can't get defensive stops, because we can't grab rebounds. But if we had a 6'10"+ M/M, we'd get the rebound on the defensive end and close out games.

(3) On a night the Gophers couldn't shoot, we'd have someone to get the ball inside to to muscle it in. I'm not suggesting that our pair of 6'10"+ M/M's need to be offensively talented. They can be limited. Just good enough to muscle it in.

I'm saying that a pair of 6'10"+ M/M type players who can rebound, protect the rim and produce some offense with limited skills would turn this team into a winner. Who's with me? Let's get this done.
Click to expand...
How was happy hour?
 

Mbakwe = 6'8"

Murphy = 6'6"

Look, I understand the OP's point. But players such as he is describing are not easy to find.

Robbins had his moments, but he was not the most physical post player.

Oturu - at 6'8" - was a really solid player.

Reggie Lynch was a solid defensive player until his off-court issues got in the way. at 6'10" he most closely fits the mold of what the OP was talking about.

before that.......probably have to go back to Pryzbilla as a dominant two-way post player.
 


It's still a MN sports team. Some unforeseen event would happen and they would still suck.
 


So you're saying if the Gophers, who are the worst rebounding team in the conference, had their all time leading rebounder playing for them they would be better?

I don't know. That's pretty bold.
 







My point is that I am assuming that this year's team reveals a general template for what Ben prefers. Sort of reminds me of Beilein's teams. This template really could work if it had players that could protect the rim and grab rebounds.

I can't believe that finding a couple of 6'10"+ players who can protect the rim and rebound, at the expense of any real offensive skillset should be all that hard. Combine the roll of protecting the rim and grabbing rebounds into one player. Everyone else is a shooter. Platoon in your 2 6'10"+ guys to absorb fouls. That lets the team protect the rim and get defensive stops. And on a real off-night the team can try to force the ball inside to said behemoth for some inelegant offense. Otherwise, the behemoth grabs whatever offensive rebounds he can and just jams them home. Ugly offense. Garbage cleaning. I think Ben's "template" with the addition of a pair of 6'10"+ Murphy/Mbakwe types wins a lot of games. Let's get that done.
 





given the choice between a 6'10" guy who is strictly a defender/rebounder, or a 6'8" guy who can score and play defense, I'll take the more versatile player.

it's not all about height. Richard Coffey at (maybe) 6'6" was one of the toughest Gophers of all time. Even a guy like J'Son Stamper was effective as an undersized post player, because he was another tough SOB.

basketball today is more of a perimeter game. You don't see many of the traditional "back-to-the-basket" post players. That's why, when you run into the team that is really big inside, it stands out more.

there are a lot of really good teams out there with a 6'8" or 6'9" guy in the middle.
 

I've said many times before that I know nothing about basketball. So that's out of the way.

From simple observation, I've noticed that games tend to unfold in certain ways:

(1) You're just plain "hot" shooting the ball.
(2) Nail-biter. Evenly matched teams, both doing enough to keep the game within a basket until the bitter end.
(3) Gift game. The opponent just can't shoot.
(4) Brick game. Opposite of Gift game: you just can't shoot, at all. See: 2-29 from 3.
(5) Mismatch. Either you're just plain better in every way than your opponent or vice versa.

A pair of 6'10"+ Murphy/Mbakwe types would help us win types #2, #3 and #4. (You usually win type #1, anyway, without a 6'10"+ dude, and if the mismatch is in your favor, the same is true of type #5). Having a pair of "dudes" helps you close out on the defensive end to win the Nail-Biters. Helps you protect the paint in the event of a Gift Game, when the opponent is sure to "shift gears" into attacking the paint. Helps you have an inside option to go along with a slasher when you are forced to attack the paint in the event of a Brick Game.

We'd have won at least 6 more games if we had a couple of "dudes." Instead, we have the singular worst defense in the B1G, and lose virtually every variety of game this year.

Dudes. We need a pair of dudes. Otherwise, everything Ben is doing is rational and well aimed to achieve success, based on my ignorant point of view.

Dudes. Let's get that done.
 


short ornery norwegian said:
given the choice between a 6'10" guy who is strictly a defender/rebounder, or a 6'8" guy who can score and play defense, I'll take the more versatile player.

it's not all about height. Richard Coffey at (maybe) 6'6" was one of the toughest Gophers of all time. Even a guy like J'Son Stamper was effective as an undersized post player, because he was another tough SOB.

basketball today is more of a perimeter game. You don't see many of the traditional "back-to-the-basket" post players. That's why, when you run into the team that is really big inside, it stands out more.

there are a lot of really good teams out there with a 6'8" or 6'9" guy in the middle.
Click to expand...
With the tough guys height is not the determining factor in rebounding. As you mentioned, Coffee and Murphy outworked everyone else on the floor and willed rebounds into their mitts. You may also remember J.B. Bickerstaff, a somewhat frail 6'5 who fought to the death for rebounds.

This team has both Curry and Thompson at near 7 feet. Curry, for well-known reasons, and Thompson for other reasons, are neither strong rebounders.
 

Two really good 6'10" guys would be great. Two really good 10'6" guys would be even better.
 


touchdownvikings said:
I've said many times before that I know nothing about basketball. So that's out of the way.

From simple observation, I've noticed that games tend to unfold in certain ways:

(1) You're just plain "hot" shooting the ball.
(2) Nail-biter. Evenly matched teams, both doing enough to keep the game within a basket until the bitter end.
(3) Gift game. The opponent just can't shoot.
(4) Brick game. Opposite of Gift game: you just can't shoot, at all. See: 2-29 from 3.
(5) Mismatch. Either you're just plain better in every way than your opponent or vice versa.

A pair of 6'10"+ Murphy/Mbakwe types would help us win types #2, #3 and #4. (You usually win type #1, anyway, without a 6'10"+ dude, and if the mismatch is in your favor, the same is true of type #5). Having a pair of "dudes" helps you close out on the defensive end to win the Nail-Biters. Helps you protect the paint in the event of a Gift Game, when the opponent is sure to "shift gears" into attacking the paint. Helps you have an inside option to go along with a slasher when you are forced to attack the paint in the event of a Brick Game.

We'd have won at least 6 more games if we had a couple of "dudes." Instead, we have the singular worst defense in the B1G, and lose virtually every variety of game this year.

Dudes. We need a pair of dudes. Otherwise, everything Ben is doing is rational and well aimed to achieve success, based on my ignorant point of view.

Dudes. Let's get that done.
Click to expand...
I appreciate your honesty touchdown. I think a star big like Murphy or Mbakwe would have been the missing ingredient needed for this team to be in the conversation for the dance.

About a week ago, I had suggested that an unspectacular big like Brandon Johnson could have had a huge impact on this team. At the time, I figured that there were 9 games where Brandon could have made a difference in the outcome. I conservatively suggested that his rebounding and defensive presence along with being another healthy big body for an entire season would have led to 5 wins out of the 9 games.

At the time that I wrote this, there were 3 losses in conference where we were within one possession within the last couple of minute. After the home loss to Indiana last weekend, I would add this game to the ledger as one of 4 games now coming down to needing just one key stop in the last couple of minutes to get the victory.

A solid inside player like Brandon Johnson could have grabbed a key rebound or made a defensive play at some point in the last minutes of those 4 games that could have turned the tide. I think 17-11 (8-11) would look really nice compared to 13-15 (4-15). I see 6 other games below where Brandon's presence could have made an impact... again some simply by eating up minutes and preventing the team from wearing down as we have seen.
  1. Home vs Mich St 67-75: Would have benefited against a notoriously physical team in a down year.
  2. Away at Indiana 60-73: Tied midway through second half despite being dominated inside.
  3. Away at Mich St 69-71: Lost on last second inside basket. Needed one stop.
  4. Home vs Iowa 71-81: Severely understaffed with no Curry and little depth. Murray dominated.
  5. Home vs Ohio St 64-75: Stuck close despite being out-muscled in the middle by Lindell.
  6. Away at WI 60-66: Davis dominated glass in second half. Tied with a couple minutes left. Needed one stop.
  7. Away at IA 59-71: Murray again dominates. IA throttles us in second half in large part due to fatigue and lack of inside game.
  8. Away at Neb 65-78: A season's worth of physical exhaustion and the mental fatigue of a long conference season of losses contributed to this loss.
  9. Home vs WI 67-68: Horribly out-rebounded throughout the game including key rebounds in closing minutes. Needed one stop.
  10. Home vs Indiana 79-84: This was one of our more solid rebounding games but Battle fouled out trying to get to the glass.
 

ecoperson said:
About a week ago, I had suggested that an unspectacular big like Brandon Johnson could have had a huge impact on this team. At the time, I figured that there were 9 games where Brandon could have made a difference in the outcome. I conservatively suggested that his rebounding and defensive presence along with being another healthy big body for an entire season would have led to 5 wins out of the 9 games.
Click to expand...
You originally said Brandon Johnson, not "like Brandon Johnson".

I am going to go with Win Shares- an estimate of the number of wins contributed by a player due to his offense and defense. There are 11 (eleven) players in the Big Ten with a W/S 4 or higher.
Brandon Johnson, if he was playing here this year, would in my humble opinion, not be one of them. He is not going to get the team 5 more conference wins.
(If I say 'in my humble opinion' in the argument, my point carries more weight.)

DePaul 15-15 6-14
Lost 68-64
Lost 63-59
Lost 89-84
Lost 68-67
Lost 57-50
Lost 76-73
Lost 73-71
Lost 66-64
Lost 75-68
Stubblefield doesn't know what he has.
 
Last edited:

fan of Ray Williams said:
You originally said Brandon Johnson, not "like Brandon Johnson".

I am going to go with Win Shares- an estimate of the number of wins contributed by a player due to his offense and defense. There are 11 (eleven) players in the Big Ten with a W/S 4 or higher.
Brandon Johnson, if he was playing here this year, would in my humble opinion, not be one of them. He is not going to get the team 5 more conference wins.
(If I say 'in my humble opinion' in the argument, my point carries more weight.)

DePaul 15-15 6-14
Lost 68-64
Lost 63-59
Lost 89-84
Lost 68-67
Lost 57-50
Lost 76-73
Lost 73-71
Lost 66-64
Lost 75-68
Stubblefield doesn't know what he has.
Click to expand...
Win Shares do not always reflect a player's role on a team... especially when it comes to intangibles let alone team need. I have not followed DePaul one bit this year so I do not know his role on that team.

What I DO know is that this Gopher team had a desperate need for what Brandon Johnson has to offer... a big body who can get some boards and play some defense against some bigs. This Gopher team lost 4 games in the last couple minutes of the game in part because of their lack of size AND serviceable depth in the middle.

Brandon Johnson would have brought a veteran presence and specific attributes to the table for this Gopher team that likely would have made the difference in a tiny fraction of plays during the course of those games that very likely would have resulted in a W.

Brandon Johnson averaged 8.9 ppg and 6.3 rpg as a 6-8 220 lb big. His rebounding in B1G play was actually extremely solid with over 11 games of 7 or more rebounds. Johnson started 24 games on the season and his veteran presence would have been invaluable.

Obviously we are both throwing 5hit against a wall but I truly believe that Brandon Johnson or a similar player would have been exactly what this Gopher team needed to be competitive this year.
 

ecoperson said:
I appreciate your honesty touchdown. I think a star big like Murphy or Mbakwe would have been the missing ingredient needed for this team to be in the conversation for the dance.

About a week ago, I had suggested that an unspectacular big like Brandon Johnson could have had a huge impact on this team. At the time, I figured that there were 9 games where Brandon could have made a difference in the outcome. I conservatively suggested that his rebounding and defensive presence along with being another healthy big body for an entire season would have led to 5 wins out of the 9 games.

At the time that I wrote this, there were 3 losses in conference where we were within one possession within the last couple of minute. After the home loss to Indiana last weekend, I would add this game to the ledger as one of 4 games now coming down to needing just one key stop in the last couple of minutes to get the victory.

A solid inside player like Brandon Johnson could have grabbed a key rebound or made a defensive play at some point in the last minutes of those 4 games that could have turned the tide. I think 17-11 (8-11) would look really nice compared to 13-15 (4-15). I see 6 other games below where Brandon's presence could have made an impact... again some simply by eating up minutes and preventing the team from wearing down as we have seen.
  1. Home vs Mich St 67-75: Would have benefited against a notoriously physical team in a down year.
  2. Away at Indiana 60-73: Tied midway through second half despite being dominated inside.
  3. Away at Mich St 69-71: Lost on last second inside basket. Needed one stop.
  4. Home vs Iowa 71-81: Severely understaffed with no Curry and little depth. Murray dominated.
  5. Home vs Ohio St 64-75: Stuck close despite being out-muscled in the middle by Lindell.
  6. Away at WI 60-66: Davis dominated glass in second half. Tied with a couple minutes left. Needed one stop.
  7. Away at IA 59-71: Murray again dominates. IA throttles us in second half in large part due to fatigue and lack of inside game.
  8. Away at Neb 65-78: A season's worth of physical exhaustion and the mental fatigue of a long conference season of losses contributed to this loss.
  9. Home vs WI 67-68: Horribly out-rebounded throughout the game including key rebounds in closing minutes. Needed one stop.
  10. Home vs Indiana 79-84: This was one of our more solid rebounding games but Battle fouled out trying to get to the glass.
Click to expand...
Couldn't agree more.
 


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