3 way tie scenario (east)

[Some guy]

If penn state beats Michigan, then Michigan beats Ohio state. And none of those three lose another game.

The division would come down to this:
Michigan played Nebraska, Minnesota, and Purdue

Currently: 7-11

Ohio state played:
Purdue, wisconsin, and Minnesota
Currently: 7-11

Penn state played:
Iowa, Illinois, northwestern
8-10


Bring the worst at this eliminates you. So if two teams tie for the best record..it would come down to head to head of the two there.
If one team is alone in 3rd, it’s head to head of the other two.


All else being equal, right now penn state would win that 3 way tie

3 weeks to play.
Minnesota-Wisconsin
Iowa-Nebraska
Illinois-northwestern could end up determining both divisions’ champions

 

[MplsGopher]

All things considered, it’s pretty cool.

And will be killed off next year without divisions.


Big Ten must recreate divisions.

 

[Some guy]

All things considered, it’s pretty cool.

And will be killed off next year without divisions.


Big Ten must recreate divisions.

I don’t think that’s true. Ridiculous tiebreakers will be more in play in future years.

The 2024 big ten schedule has over 100 combos of undefeated 3 or more way ties when none of the tied teams played each other. Probably thousands of possibilities 2+ way ties with losses where teams didn’t play each other. Though I haven’t run the numbers.

The ridiculous tiebreakers being more relevant is why we need divisions. Maybe that’s what you were saying

 

[MplsGopher]

Wasn’t commenting on ties and tiebreakers, rather that there should be a lot of interest in those three West games — much more than would be otherwise in a division-less setup.

Although would that be true next year, if you still had those three at the top?

 

[Panthadad2]

West teams have benefitted greatly from the divisions. It's basically a very competitive shitty conference wrapped inside a good conference while receiving financial benefits of the good conference. It's an interesting competition for programs in the West markets and probably helps TV viewership regionally (I doubt it does much outside the Upper Midwest). I will miss it.

 

[Panthadad2]

If penn state beats Michigan, then Michigan beats Ohio state. And none of those three lose another game.

The division would come down to this:
Michigan played Nebraska, Minnesota, and Purdue

Currently: 7-11

Ohio state played:
Purdue, wisconsin, and Minnesota
Currently: 7-11

Penn state played:
Iowa, Illinois, northwestern
8-10


Bring the worst at this eliminates you. So if two teams tie for the best record..it would come down to head to head of the two there.
If one team is alone in 3rd, it’s head to head of the other two.


All else being equal, right now penn state would win that 3 way tie

3 weeks to play.
Minnesota-Wisconsin
Iowa-Nebraska
Illinois-northwestern could end up determining both divisions’ champions

It is pretty amazing it could come down to the 5th tie breaker and shows the disparity in conference strength right now. That said, I don't think PSU has much chance of knocking off Michigan. Their will be a lot of eyeballs on that game.

 

[Some guy]

It is pretty amazing it could come down to the 5th tie breaker and shows the disparity in conference strength right now. That said, I don't think PSU has much chance of knocking off Michigan. Their will be a lot of eyeballs on that game.

I agree

 

[Ope3]

I don’t think that’s true. Ridiculous tiebreakers will be more in play in future years.

The 2024 big ten schedule has over 100 combos of undefeated 3 or more way ties when none of the tied teams played each other. Probably thousands of possibilities 2+ way ties with losses where teams didn’t play each other. Though I haven’t run the numbers.

The ridiculous tiebreakers being more relevant is why we need divisions. Maybe that’s what you were saying

How does the 2023 Mountain West rate on the "Some Guy Scale of Ridiculous Tiebreakers"?

Machine watchable: Computers pick UNLV-Boise

UNLV will host Boise State in next week's Mountain West title game after computers settled a three-way tie that also included San José State.

www.espn.com

3 way tie between, Boise St, UNLV & San Jose St. San Jose St gets left out even though they just won AT UNLV last week.

 

[Some guy]

How does the 2023 Mountain West rate on the "Some Guy Scale of Ridiculous Tiebreakers"?

Machine watchable: Computers pick UNLV-Boise

UNLV will host Boise State in next week's Mountain West title game after computers settled a three-way tie that also included San José State.

www.espn.com

3 way tie between, Boise St, UNLV & San Jose St. San Jose St gets left out even though they just won AT UNLV last week.

Expect more of this in the future.
On the plus side, the random year the gophers break through and go 8-1 in conference they’ll probably lose a 3 way tie for second where we didn’t play either of the other two. Will get skipped over based on Iowa losing to Nebraska or something and will forever get to wonder what if

 

[Iceland12]

How does the 2023 Mountain West rate on the "Some Guy Scale of Ridiculous Tiebreakers"?

Machine watchable: Computers pick UNLV-Boise

UNLV will host Boise State in next week's Mountain West title game after computers settled a three-way tie that also included San José State.

www.espn.com

3 way tie between, Boise St, UNLV & San Jose St. San Jose St gets left out even though they just won AT UNLV last week.

Not as ridiculous as that ESPN story made it seem and they didn't need a computer to figure it out.

Yes, they all tied in Conference play at 6-2.UNLV had the better overall record at 9-3 and Boise State and San Jose State were both 7-5. While the story does mention that SJS beat UNLV it fails to mention the other important part.

Boise State beat San Jose 35-27 when they played last month.

 

[Ope3]

Not as ridiculous as that ESPN story made it seem and they didn't need a computer to figure it out.

Yes, they all tied in Conference play at 6-2.UNLV had the better overall record at 9-3 and Boise State and San Jose State were both 7-5. While the story does mention that SJS beat UNLV it fails to mention the other important part.

Boise State beat San Jose 35-27 when they played last month.

I don't think ESPN's story was "ridiculous", they basically just stated it as "matter of fact" IMO, that it was based on computer ranking because of Boise & San Jose not playing each other. I was the one the called out the San Jose St victory over the UNLV.

Personally, I do find it kind of "ridiculous".

> San Jose had to play both Boise St & UNLV on the road.

> I don't think Non-Conference results should have any impact on Conference standings or their Title Game. San Jose Non-Conf included losses to USC, Oregon St and Toledo (now playing for MAC Championship). They beat Cal Poly. Meanwhile UNLV lost to Michigan, but beat Bryant, North Dakota and UTEP.

Also odd, Boise St is playing with a lame duck coach that they fired 2 weeks ago.

 

[Ope3]

Expect more of this in the future.
On the plus side, the random year the gophers break through and go 8-1 in conference they’ll probably lose a 3 way tie for second where we didn’t play either of the other two. Will get skipped over based on Iowa losing to Nebraska or something and will forever get to wonder what if

If an 8-1 Gophers team also went 3-0 in the Non-Conference, I would be fine with just making the 12 Team Playoff and skipping Indy or wherever they have the Big 10 Championship.

 

[Iceland12]

I don't think ESPN's story was "ridiculous", they basically just stated it as "matter of fact" IMO, that it was based on computer ranking because of Boise & San Jose not playing each other. I was the one the called out the San Jose St victory over the UNLV.

Personally, I do find it kind of "ridiculous".

> San Jose had to play both Boise St & UNLV on the road.

> I don't think Non-Conference results should have any impact on Conference standings or their Title Game. San Jose Non-Conf included losses to USC, Oregon St and Toledo (now playing for MAC Championship). They beat Cal Poly. Meanwhile UNLV lost to Michigan, but beat Bryant, North Dakota and UTEP.

Also odd, Boise St is playing with a lame duck coach that they fired 2 weeks ago.

How does the 2023 Mountain West rate on the "Some Guy Scale of Ridiculous Tiebreakers"?

Machine watchable: Computers pick UNLV-Boise

UNLV will host Boise State in next week's Mountain West title game after computers settled a three-way tie that also included San José State.

www.espn.com

3 way tie between, Boise St, UNLV & San Jose St. San Jose St gets left out even though they just won AT UNLV last week.

Didn't see either you or ESPN mention that San Jose State lost to Boise State. Even though the story mentioned San Jose beating UNLV. As for Non-Conference games not counting they have for years when teams end-up with identical conference records. If they didn't want them to count they had 9 conference games to end up with a better record.

Still think the story, without mentioning that they didn't need the computer involved, was ridiculous.

You were trying to prove that computers would just mess things up. With up to 12 teams now involved in the playoffs that's gonna be true. Picking this ESPN story as an example didn't prove anything.

Boise State 35-27 San José State (Oct 7, 2023) Final Score - ESPN

Game summary of the Boise State Broncos vs. San José State Spartans NCAAF game, final score 35-27, from October 7, 2023 on ESPN.

www.espn.com

 

[Ope3]

Didn't see either you or ESPN mention that San Jose State lost to Boise State. As for Non-Conference games not counting they have for years when teams end-up with identical conference records. If they didn't want them to count they had 9 conference games to end up with a better record.

Still think the story, without mentioning that they didn't need the computer involved, was ridiculous.

You were trying to prove that computers would just mess things up. With up to 12 teams now involved in the playoffs that's gonna be true. Picking this ESPN story as an example didn't prove anything.

Boise State 35-27 San José State (Oct 7, 2023) Final Score - ESPN

Game summary of the Boise State Broncos vs. San José State Spartans NCAAF game, final score 35-27, from October 7, 2023 on ESPN.

www.espn.com

They needed the computers because that's how it was set up and agreed upon to begin with.

Actually they only had 8 Conference games in the Mountain West. That leads to even a wider variance with the Non-Conference games as part of a Computer ranking.

I wasn't trying to "prove" anything, I posted the article as an example of what could happen in the future in the Big 10.

It's not a fear of computers "messing things up." I don't like Non-Conference games factoring in, plain and simple, regardless of how it's been done before.

I would rather have it be an objective criteria based on Conference results ONLY. Non-Conference schedules are so divergent in terms of opponents and locations, it makes little sense (IN MY OPINION) to base it on that at all.

If head-to-head doesn't break the tie then I would go to winning pct vs team(s) with the next best records and so on. If that fails to break the tie throughout the entire conference then sure, go ahead with a computer or draw straws for all I care.

 

[Some guy]

If an 8-1 Gophers team also went 3-0 in the Non-Conference, I would be fine with just making the 12 Team Playoff and skipping Indy or wherever the have the Big 10 Championship.

Yes. I agree. This is why making a 12 team playoff is more the goal than a conference title now.
That is in your control.
Any 12-0 or 11-1 big ten team will make the playoff.
Probably about half of 10-2 teams.
An occasional 9-3 team may make it