2024 MN High School Basketball State Tournaments

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MaxyJR1 said:
They have to just have guidelines for what class they have to participate in IMO.
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The problem is applying a rule that is meant for a small number of schools to an entire group of them. It’s essentially saying that if a school wins too much, we need to change the rules. Breck was dominant this year. Basically for the first time ever. Submitting them to class changes doesn’t make sense. The most reasonable response here was your suggestion to shrink 4A. That’s non discriminatory and would increase the competition in 3A where most of the consternation rests.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
I didn't say they would win. I said someone would challenge it in court - likely on the basis of discrimination, claiming that private schools were being discriminated against as a class. the MSHSL may be a private organization, but it's an organization with a budget, and that budget is supported by fees paid by public and private High Schools.
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So? They voluntarily pay. Sports are optional. No school needs to play sports to fulfill its mission.

They can give the membership fees back and wish them good luck.

Indeed, in Europe they view the North American obsession with school teams as quite bizarre. Over there everything is club teams.

short ornery norwegian said:
If they allow that, and they tried to kick out private schools, you don't think that someone would challenge it in court?
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Change the mission to public schools only. That’s just fine. Someone else can make a new association.

short ornery norwegian said:
I don't think the MSHSL has the stomach or the budget for that kind of legal fight.
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Shouldn’t be any fight at all
 

Holy Man said:
The problem is applying a rule that is meant for a small number of schools to an entire group of them. It’s essentially saying that if a school wins too much, we need to change the rules. Breck was dominant this year. Basically for the first time ever. Submitting them to class changes doesn’t make sense. The most reasonable response here was your suggestion to shrink 4A. That’s non discriminatory and would increase the competition in 3A where most of the consternation rests.
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A metro private taking away championship opportunities from non-metro publics is never going to be justifiable.

Doesn’t matter the enrollment size of the private.
 

MplsGopher said:
A metro private taking away championship opportunities from non-metro publics is never going to be justifiable.

Doesn’t matter the enrollment size of the private.
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What color is the sky in your world?
 

disco said:
What color is the sky in your world?
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That would the same color as it is in every state that has made the correction decision to have separate associations for publics and privates.

Correct
 


just out of curiosity, I tried to find a listing of states that have separate organizations for public and private schools.

as near as I can tell, according to the National Federation Of State High School Associations:

there are 12 states that have more than one governing body for HS sports and activities. This includes Iowa, which has separate organizations running Boys and Girls sports.

Alabama, Georgia, Mississippi and South Carolina have "Independent" school associations along with public school associations. This goes back to segregation when schools split along racial lines.

Pennsylvania has an Independent school association with 24 schools. Oklahoma has a Christian Athletic association with 54 schools.

states that have public and private school associations:
Texas has 4 separate organizations for private schools.
Virginia, North Carolina and Maryland all have separate organizations for private schools. In Virginia and North Carolina, private schools are allowed to join the public school associations if they meet certain criteria, such as agreeing they will not offer scholarships or recruit athletes.

New York has a different setup (too long to get into), but they do have a Catholic School athletic association.

within the other 38 states, private schools are part of the overall HS association. some states do use multipliers and other systems for assigning private schools to athletic classifications.
 

I've personally always been of the opinion that private schools should have to play up one class level. They tend to have greater resources available compared to similarly sized public schools.
 

Thanks for looking that up SON.

I was thinking of New Jersey. They have separate championships for public and non-public, but all under NJSIAA. So it doesn’t need to be separate associations.
 
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Unrelated to basketball, but some of us like discussing the MSHSL.

MSHSL Adopted the Section placement for the 85 teams joining the Boys Volleyball League next year. 1 Class of 8 sections, with 9-11 teams per section.

Competitive Sections | MSHSL

www.mshsl.org www.mshsl.org
 



FWIW - the MSHSL Executive Board is meeting today (Thurs, Apr 4).

The Board is reviewing Winter Activity Advisory proposals. Those items will be action items for the June Board meeting.

The proposals include:
Seeding State Boys and Girls Basketball and State Boys and Girls Hockey Tournaments 1-8.

For basketball fans, there is also a proposed rules modification on the basket interference (goaltending) rule that, as I read it, would mean that slapping the backboard would be considered goaltending. (I am not a ref, and this is a little technical, so other opinions appreciated)

other proposals being considered:
--for State Hockey classification - Class 2A capped at 64 teams. If any Class A teams "opt up" to 2A, then the smallest remaining 2A teams would be moved down to Class A to keep Class 2A at the 64-team limit.
--changing State Individual Wrestling tournament to a full consolation bracket
--larger sections (10 teams or more) would be required to hold a 2-day Individual Wrestling section tournament instead of a 1-day tournament.

details on the proposals can be found at mshsl.org/about/proposed-rule-changes

(finding anything on that web site is like a f*cking scavenger hunt.)
 


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