2008-2010 recruiting comparisons

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frannyjunk

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First off, some statistics.

Michigan State
2008 - overall class ranked (by ESPN) 16, with 3 Top 100 recruits (Lucious, Green & Roe)
2009 - overall class ranked (by ESPN) outside of 25, with 2 Top 100 recruits (Nix & Sherman)
2010 - overall class ranked (by ESPN) 5, with 3 Top 100 recruits (#24, 31 &61)

Ohio State
2007 - overall class ranked (by ESPN) 9, with 4 Top 100 recruits (Koufos, Turner, Diebler, Lauderdale)
2008 - overall class ranked (by ESPN) 3, with 3 Top 100 recruits (Buford, Mullens & Crater)
2009 - no recruits
2010 - overall class ranked (by ESPN) 2, with 3 Top 100 recruits (#2, 12 & 73)

Gophers
2008 - overall class ranked (by ESPN) 25, with 0 Top 100 recruits
2009 - overall class ranked (by ESPN) 22, with 2 Top 100 recruits (White & William)
2010 - outside of Top 25

Clearly, Ohio State and Michigan State is the class of the Big 10. It appeared that the Gophs were making progress and making up ground on the B10 elites in the last 2 years. What happened in 2010? Hollins and Eliason will make nice role players, but clearly not in the class of tOSU or MSU. Anybody care to speculate on what Tubby was thinking???
 


KyGopherfan said:
Nice 3rd post. Enjoy your time around here.
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No kidding. These dumd-a$$ses don't understand that basketball has changed. Nobody recruited Ali except UNI. Look what he did to Kansas with all of it's 5-star players. I am not saying that talent is not important. It is but not as much as a team chemistry and winning mentality. Right now, the only teams that have winning mentality are left. These teams play with atittude like they are going to win. With the exception of UK, all other teams have the same level of talent. Look what MSU does every March. They have talent but not as much as UNC or .... One thing that is missing in our team is this atittude. We only need one winning season.


Go Gophers
 

TRT

The-Real-Truth said:
No kidding. These dumd-a$$ses don't understand that basketball has changed. Nobody recruited Ali except UNI. Look what he did to Kansas with all of it's 5-star players. I am not saying that talent is not important. It is but not as much as a team chemistry and winning mentality. Right now, the only teams that have winning mentality are left. These teams play with atittude like they are going to win. With the exception of UK, all other teams have the same level of talent. Look what MSU does every March. They have talent but not as much as UNC or .... One thing that is missing in our team is this atittude. We only need one winning season.


Go Gophers
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An interesting perspective. I would like to know how the last 3 or 4 recruiting classes were ranked for the current Elite Eight, or even just UNI, Baylor, and Butler.

I am just guessing they are not full of 5 star kids.
 

answering my own question

Section201 said:
An interesting perspective. I would like to know how the last 3 or 4 recruiting classes were ranked for the current Elite Eight, or even just UNI, Baylor, and Butler.

I am just guessing they are not full of 5 star kids.
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Answering my own question:

Using Scout I found this.

Butler Class of 2007: 1 3-star recruit and 1 2-star recruit.
Butler Class of 2008: 5 2-star recruits.
Butler Class of 2009: 1 3-star recruit.
Butler Class of 2010: 1 3-star recruit and 2-2 star recruits.


Baylor Class of 2007: 1 5-star recruit (Dunn) and 2 3-star recruits.
Baylor Class of 2008: 1 4-star recruit (Anthony Jones) and 1 3-star recruit and 1 2-star recruit.
Baylor Class of 2009: 1 4-star recruit (Dennis) and 4 3-star recruits.
Baylor Class 0f 2010: 1 5 star resruit (Perry Jones), and 2 3-star recruits.

UNI Class of 2007: 1 3-star recruit and 1 2-star recruit.
UNI Class of 2008: 2 2-star recruits and 1 1-star recruit.
UNI Class of 2009: 2 2-star recruits.
UNI Class of 2010: 1 3-star recruit and 2 1-star recruits.



Baylor is the only one of the three that obviously out recruit us based on "star ratings".

http://minnesota.scout.com/a.z?s=176&p=9&c=8&cfg=bb&toinid=517&sspid=-1&yr=2010
 


The reality is Minnesota has lost the recruiting battle for years compared to the top Big Ten schools. This year (2009) would have looked good if the kids actually played.

Butler and Northern Iowa are mid-majors... great programs, but we should consistently have better recruiting classes... as for Baylor, they get players. Another way to look at it is to consider RSCI...

Baylor
For 2010... Perry Jones is off the charts. A top player, nationally.
Current roster includes...
LaceDarius Dunn (2007) #37 RSCI
Anthony Jones (2008) #40 RSCI
Nolan Dennis (2009) #41 RSCI
Tweety Carter (2006) #69 RSCI, McDonald's All American
Cory Jefferson (2009) #92 RSCI
Ekpe Udoh (2006) 6-10, Michigan transfer, some top 100 rankings
Josh Lomers (2006) 7-0, near top 100

Gophers
Rodney (2009) #46 RSCI
Ralph (2008) #64 RSCI
Devoe (2009) #98 RSCI
Hoffarber (2007), some top 100

...and one that hasn't ever played for us:
Mbakwe (2007) #91 RSCI

..and one who never played:
Royce (2009) #31 RSCI
 

The reality is talent wins out over the long haul. What I mean by this is that UNI and others like them MIGHT make it to the NCAAs occasionally wheras tOSU and MSU are perenniel dancers .... and tend to go deeper into the tournament. To be a program like that, we need 4 and 5 star recruits (like Cory Josephn, for example). We don't need many, just one or two every year. So far, neither Hollins nor Eliason fit that bill. If the Gophs do not land Cory Joseph this year, they'll need two or more 4-5 star recruits next year. What are the chances of that????
 

frannyjunk said:
The reality is talent wins out over the long haul. What I mean by this is that UNI and others like them MIGHT make it to the NCAAs occasionally wheras tOSU and MSU are perenniel dancers .... and tend to go deeper into the tournament. To be a program like that, we need 4 and 5 star recruits (like Cory Josephn, for example). We don't need many, just one or two every year. So far, neither Hollins nor Eliason fit that bill. If the Gophs do not land Cory Joseph this year, they'll need two or more 4-5 star recruits next year. What are the chances of that????
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Agreed 100%. We do need talent but more importantly we need to change the image of the basketball team to a winning image. We need to play hard every night. We need to beat Michigan by 30 not the other way around. To do that, we have enough talent but not the atittude. Our guys have never been a part of a winning team. They don't know what it takes. Izzo and Tubby are very similar but one has a team that knows how to win and the other one doesn't. When a player comes to MSU, he knows what he has to do. Even if we get the best player in the country, we still cannot win if we don't know how.
 

frannyjunk said:
The reality is talent wins out over the long haul. What I mean by this is that UNI and others like them MIGHT make it to the NCAAs occasionally wheras tOSU and MSU are perenniel dancers .... and tend to go deeper into the tournament. To be a program like that, we need 4 and 5 star recruits (like Cory Josephn, for example). We don't need many, just one or two every year. So far, neither Hollins nor Eliason fit that bill. If the Gophs do not land Cory Joseph this year, they'll need two or more 4-5 star recruits next year. What are the chances of that????
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I see what your saying but I think your being a bit too literal with the "star" system. It is, in essence, an ability to judge where a player is currently at in skill and talent. But it is less accurate in predicting the kind of player this person will be four years from now.

Take West Virginia for example.

The only 5-star on their roster is Devin Ebanks.
They have one 4-star recruit - Kevin Jones

The rest, including, including leading scorer and probable first round pick Desean Butler, rank no higher than 3.

Obviously a 5-star recruit is a talented player. The divide between 5 & 4 can be a bit hazy and between 4 & 3 much more so, especially with big men, who take longer to mature.

Anytime a player gets 3-stars, they are talented at basketball. How good will this 17 year old kid be in four years is where scouting ability comes in. 3-stars often eclipse 4-stars during their college careers.

I think any coach would like to get talented players that fit his system.
 



beowulftom said:
Take West Virginia for example.

The only 5-star on their roster is Devin Ebanks.
They have one 4-star recruit - Kevin Jones

I think any coach would like to get talented players that fit his system.
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Winning attitude and fitting into system may account for 25% of the teams success. Take West Virginia. Here are the stats from scout.com:

Butler (2006 recruit), 4 stars, 17.4 ppg
Jones (2008), 4 stars, 13.7 ppg
Ebanks (2008), 5 stars, 12.0

To me, there appears to be some correlation between star rating and talent. On the same site RSIII, DJ, Colton and Williams were rated 4 stars. And they play like they belong. Cobbs = 2 stars .... and it shows a little. If you were to compare the # of star ratings on the Gophs roster versus tOSU or MSU .... there is a big gap. Tubby should be recruiting more 4 & 5 star kids. Otherwise, it will be difficult to compete with the B10 elites.
 

frannyjunk said:
The reality is talent wins out over the long haul. What I mean by this is that UNI and others like them MIGHT make it to the NCAAs occasionally wheras tOSU and MSU are perenniel dancers .... and tend to go deeper into the tournament. To be a program like that, we need 4 and 5 star recruits (like Cory Josephn, for example). We don't need many, just one or two every year. So far, neither Hollins nor Eliason fit that bill. If the Gophs do not land Cory Joseph this year, they'll need two or more 4-5 star recruits next year. What are the chances of that????
Click to expand...

Not to go all F.O.T. but since Tubby first arrived here he's gotten at least 2 4/5 star prospects to sign.

08-Devoe Joseph, Ralph Sampson III(both 4*)
09-Royce White(5*),Rodney Williams(4*)
10-no 4* this year but Austin Hollins is a very good player who (I'm guessing) has a high basketball IQ and the genetics to be good. Double E isn't no slouch either putting up over 17 pts,10r boards, and 4 blocks a game. Some people make it seem like we got guys coming in next year who have never touched a basketball before.
 

Well, Rivals shows Butler at 3-stars, and I'm not sure where you're getting 25% of a teams success is connected to the team's composition and attitude, but I do see what you're saying.

We cannot and should not compare our recruiting to the nefarious OSU machine. They do it different than we do. Having a conveyor belt of 5-star talent is not going to happen and is not something we need to be successful.

MSU is a more reachable and more comparable program to ours.

I think Tubby is bringing that kind of recruiting to MN. the 2010 class is not complete yet and Eliason and Hollins both look like good fits in our system.

IF and I repeat IF we land Cory Joseph, you'd have to give Tubby credit for

2 5-star (White's legal troubles not related to his recruiting here)
3 4-star

and the rest 3-star recruits.

Talent-wise, that IS a team that can challenge for the BT title.

So, my point is, Tubby is doing exactly what you want him to do. I keep saying when RSIII , Devoe and Colton are seniors, then I think Tubby's rebuilding of our shattered program will be something that can be judged as a success or a failure. Right now, it's headed toward success.
 

frannyjunk said:
Winning attitude and fitting into system may account for 25% of the teams success. Take West Virginia. Here are the stats from scout.com:

Butler (2006 recruit), 4 stars, 17.4 ppg
Jones (2008), 4 stars, 13.7 ppg
Ebanks (2008), 5 stars, 12.0

To me, there appears to be some correlation between star rating and talent. On the same site RSIII, DJ, Colton and Williams were rated 4 stars. And they play like they belong. Cobbs = 2 stars .... and it shows a little. If you were to compare the # of star ratings on the Gophs roster versus tOSU or MSU .... there is a big gap. Tubby should be recruiting more 4 & 5 star kids. Otherwise, it will be difficult to compete with the B10 elites.
Click to expand...

Of course there is going to be a gap. Those two programs have had much more success than the Gophers. More success on the floor usually means it's easier to attract 4 and 5 star recruits.

I don't know what you mean by "Tubby should be recruiting more 4 & 5 star kids." Tubby is recruiting 4 & 5 star recruits. Just haven't landed one yet this year. We've gotten several of them each of the last two years even though our program has not been good for a long time.

Hayward was a 2-star recruit on Scout.com, he's pretty damn good.
 



It's tough in a year where there are no kids in state to build a class around. There are still some guys out there that can round out this class nicely.
 

What was Tubby thinking? What does that mean? I'm sure he would've liked if the higher ranked recruits of his committed. Some schools happen to be more attractive to players, some coaches happen to be better recruiters than others, some states happen to have better high school players, etc. I don't think Tubby recruiting a lower ranked class has to do with what he was thinking. He just happened to not get as good of recruits.

frannyjunk said:
First off, some statistics.

Michigan State
2008 - overall class ranked (by ESPN) 16, with 3 Top 100 recruits (Lucious, Green & Roe)
2009 - overall class ranked (by ESPN) outside of 25, with 2 Top 100 recruits (Nix & Sherman)
2010 - overall class ranked (by ESPN) 5, with 3 Top 100 recruits (#24, 31 &61)

Ohio State
2007 - overall class ranked (by ESPN) 9, with 4 Top 100 recruits (Koufos, Turner, Diebler, Lauderdale)
2008 - overall class ranked (by ESPN) 3, with 3 Top 100 recruits (Buford, Mullens & Crater)
2009 - no recruits
2010 - overall class ranked (by ESPN) 2, with 3 Top 100 recruits (#2, 12 & 73)

Gophers
2008 - overall class ranked (by ESPN) 25, with 0 Top 100 recruits
2009 - overall class ranked (by ESPN) 22, with 2 Top 100 recruits (White & William)
2010 - outside of Top 25

Clearly, Ohio State and Michigan State is the class of the Big 10. It appeared that the Gophs were making progress and making up ground on the B10 elites in the last 2 years. What happened in 2010? Hollins and Eliason will make nice role players, but clearly not in the class of tOSU or MSU. Anybody care to speculate on what Tubby was thinking???
Click to expand...
 

I think Tubby is a great coach. Here's the but. His goal is to bring the Gopher program up to the level of MSU and tOSU (& Purdue). His is being paid close to an Izzo, Matta, etc. His results to date is fantastic compared to Monson, but lacking compared to MSU and tOSU. He was doing well in the recruiting department, but dropped off in 2010. Seemed like the Gophs were not in many discussions with 4 & 5 star recruits all year (that was published anyway). Instead, this board talk up Hollins and Eliason as the second coming of Quincy Lewis and Joel Pryzbilla. Also, getting excited about Reggie Murphy and Maurice Walker? The reason why the Gophs bowed out in the 1st round of the dance 2 years in a row is because of a lack of a dominant player (or two). As it stands right now:

RSIII & Iverson = good centers but not dominant. Iverson showed flashes in the B10T
Horfabber = deadly spot up jump shooter (can't create own shot)
DJ = good PG/SG
Damien = very good defender, ok offensive player
Westbrook = dominant at times, but disappears too often

Notice that none of these guys will likely be drafted in the 1st round in the NBA (RSIII & Iverson might go in the 2nd round in 2012). Remember the Gophs run to the Elite 8/Final 4. Those teams had Lewis, J. Thomas and Jackson that went in the first round. Not sure if anybody on the current roster (maybe RSIII) has NBA potential.

So, how is a great coach with good (but not dominant) talent get to the upper echelons and dance deep in the NCAAs? Certainly not with talents like Hollins and Eliason .... at least not on paper. It'll be very hard for me to be excited about the 2010 recruiting class unless if Cory signs.
 

franny

Please link to where anyone anywhere made these kind of statements..

"Instead, this board talk up Hollins and Eliason as the second coming of Quincy Lewis and Joel Pryzbilla."
 

frannyjunk said:
I think Tubby is a great coach. Here's the but. His goal is to bring the Gopher program up to the level of MSU and tOSU (& Purdue). His is being paid close to an Izzo, Matta, etc. His results to date is fantastic compared to Monson, but lacking compared to MSU and tOSU. He was doing well in the recruiting department, but dropped off in 2010. Seemed like the Gophs were not in many discussions with 4 & 5 star recruits all year (that was published anyway). Instead, this board talk up Hollins and Eliason as the second coming of Quincy Lewis and Joel Pryzbilla. Also, getting excited about Reggie Murphy and Maurice Walker? The reason why the Gophs bowed out in the 1st round of the dance 2 years in a row is because of a lack of a dominant player (or two). As it stands right now:

RSIII & Iverson = good centers but not dominant. Iverson showed flashes in the B10T
Horfabber = deadly spot up jump shooter (can't create own shot)
DJ = good PG/SG
Damien = very good defender, ok offensive player
Westbrook = dominant at times, but disappears too often

Notice that none of these guys will likely be drafted in the 1st round in the NBA (RSIII & Iverson might go in the 2nd round in 2012). Remember the Gophs run to the Elite 8/Final 4. Those teams had Lewis, J. Thomas and Jackson that went in the first round. Not sure if anybody on the current roster (maybe RSIII) has NBA potential.

So, how is a great coach with good (but not dominant) talent get to the upper echelons and dance deep in the NCAAs? Certainly not with talents like Hollins and Eliason .... at least not on paper. It'll be very hard for me to be excited about the 2010 recruiting class unless if Cory signs.
Click to expand...

I have seen Tubby's recruiting for years. What I understand is that Tubby always goes after players with high basketball IQ (example: T Prince related to UT's Prince who is also a very smart player). He has a very complex defensive system that can only be understood by those types of players. Hollins is son of a coach. Usually, this type of kids are great leaders on the court and sometimes become future coaches themselves. We all know that Eliason is a very smart kid.

We all saw last night that WV's player (left-handed) kept going to the basket knowing that JW was not able to defend him. This was a match-up between talent vs. intelligence. I am not saying that WV player was not talented. I am saying that JW was super talented with lower basketball IQ.

Like Tubby, I prefer to have smart players with talent. I don't like to have players like Jordan Crawford in my roster who made so many baskets against K-state while commiting too many turnovers. This was the same reason that I didn't like Westbrook. Basketball is about the team.

Folks, be patient. We'll get there soon.

Go Gophers
 

The-Real-Truth said:
No kidding. These dumd-a$$ses don't understand that basketball has changed. Nobody recruited Ali except UNI. Look what he did to Kansas with all of it's 5-star players. I am not saying that talent is not important. It is but not as much as a team chemistry and winning mentality. Right now, the only teams that have winning mentality are left. These teams play with atittude like they are going to win. With the exception of UK, all other teams have the same level of talent. Look what MSU does every March. They have talent but not as much as UNC or .... One thing that is missing in our team is this atittude. We only need one winning season.


Go Gophers
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Ali Farokhmanesh is what you would call the exception, not the rule. MOST of the time, the teams that make it the furthest in the NCAA Tournament have the top recruiting classes. Period. It's difficult to sustain a high level of success without top 25 classes year in and year out. Few would be surprised of Northern Iowa simply missed the tournament next season, but if Kansas did, it would be huge news (just like UConn, UNC and UCLA this season). Recruiting is the life-blood of a successful basketball program, and it would be foolish to argue otherwise.
I do not disagree with you on the fact that teams like MSU and OSU play with a certain swagger, but they are often simply playing with better players too. Chemistry is profoundly important, but don't underestimate what a top-notch recruiting class can do for you. Look at Kentucky this season. The 'Cats strolled to the Elite Eight with a collection of guys that were largely playing with each other for the first time. Duke is another example. Although the Devils are well-coached, they also have an embarrassment of 4 and 5 star talent. Look at West Virginia, the Mountaineers have signed seven 4 or 5 star recruits since 2006. Even Baylor has inked five 4 and 5 star prospects since 2006, including 5 star talent Lace Dunn.
 

To Tubby's defense, this season's less than star-studded recruiting class is a product of what he THOUGHT he was going to have last season. A year ago, the Gophers looked loaded for the next couple seasons with Mbakwe, White and Williams coming on for 2009-10. Tubby didn't feel the need to go out and make a huge splash with recruiting, signing low-risk, intelligent players to compliment what he assumed was going to be a talented cast of players. Let's put it this way: If Tubby knew Mbakwe and White weren't going to be part of the team, I believe he would have targeted a different brand of player from the Class of 2010 to fill the two gaping holes in the starting five. From what I understand, Hollins has some positive upside, but will likely not make an immediate impact on the floor. Elliot E was all but guaranteed to red-shirt in order to add some bulk. Having White and Mbakwe would have afforded these two the opportunity to mature at their own pace. Now, no one knows what role they will play the next couple seasons.
 

frannyjunk said:
I think Tubby is a great coach. Here's the but. His goal is to bring the Gopher program up to the level of MSU and tOSU (& Purdue). His is being paid close to an Izzo, Matta, etc. His results to date is fantastic compared to Monson, but lacking compared to MSU and tOSU. He was doing well in the recruiting department, but dropped off in 2010. Seemed like the Gophs were not in many discussions with 4 & 5 star recruits all year (that was published anyway). Instead, this board talk up Hollins and Eliason as the second coming of Quincy Lewis and Joel Pryzbilla. Also, getting excited about Reggie Murphy and Maurice Walker? The reason why the Gophs bowed out in the 1st round of the dance 2 years in a row is because of a lack of a dominant player (or two). As it stands right now:

RSIII & Iverson = good centers but not dominant. Iverson showed flashes in the B10T
Horfabber = deadly spot up jump shooter (can't create own shot)
DJ = good PG/SG
Damien = very good defender, ok offensive player
Westbrook = dominant at times, but disappears too often

Notice that none of these guys will likely be drafted in the 1st round in the NBA (RSIII & Iverson might go in the 2nd round in 2012). Remember the Gophs run to the Elite 8/Final 4. Those teams had Lewis, J. Thomas and Jackson that went in the first round. Not sure if anybody on the current roster (maybe RSIII) has NBA potential.

So, how is a great coach with good (but not dominant) talent get to the upper echelons and dance deep in the NCAAs? Certainly not with talents like Hollins and Eliason .... at least not on paper. It'll be very hard for me to be excited about the 2010 recruiting class unless if Cory signs.
Click to expand...

Three of the six guys you mentioned above were signed before Tubby was even our coach. Was he supposed to be recruiting for the Gophers even before he was hired?

On paper, Butler was not supposed to be good enough to make it to the Final Four. On paper, Kansas and Kentucky should have made it to the Final Four. A lot of NBA talent does not guarantee a deep run in the tourney.
 

BigGopherFan said:
Ali Farokhmanesh is what you would call the exception, not the rule. MOST of the time, the teams that make it the furthest in the NCAA Tournament have the top recruiting classes. Period. It's difficult to sustain a high level of success without top 25 classes year in and year out. Few would be surprised of Northern Iowa simply missed the tournament next season, but if Kansas did, it would be huge news (just like UConn, UNC and UCLA this season). Recruiting is the life-blood of a successful basketball program, and it would be foolish to argue otherwise.
I do not disagree with you on the fact that teams like MSU and OSU play with a certain swagger, but they are often simply playing with better players too. Chemistry is profoundly important, but don't underestimate what a top-notch recruiting class can do for you. Look at Kentucky this season. The 'Cats strolled to the Elite Eight with a collection of guys that were largely playing with each other for the first time. Duke is another example. Although the Devils are well-coached, they also have an embarrassment of 4 and 5 star talent. Look at West Virginia, the Mountaineers have signed seven 4 or 5 star recruits since 2006. Even Baylor has inked five 4 and 5 star prospects since 2006, including 5 star talent Lace Dunn.
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How do you explain Butler being a good team year after year? Are they loaded with 4, 5-star players?
 

You can have an elite team if you get a combination of 3-star and 4-star type players who fit your system and an occasional 5-star every now and then to be the go-to player. This is something that the Gophers can and will do. It's nice to have a class full of 5-star players, but there's a limited amount of those type of players, so only a limited amount of teams can get those classes. It doesn't mean you are doomed if you don't. It's not realistic to expect us to get a 5-star each and every year, and we don't have to. You'll find examples of successful teams with lots of 5-stars and examples of successful teams with no 5-stars. We will be somewhere in between, and I'm more than fine with that.
 

GOTR

GophersOnTheRise said:
You can have an elite team if you get a combination of 3-star and 4-star type players who fit your system and an occasional 5-star every now and then to be the go-to player. This is something that the Gophers can and will do. It's nice to have a class full of 5-star players, but there's a limited amount of those type of players, so only a limited amount of teams can get those classes. It doesn't mean you are doomed if you don't. It's not realistic to expect us to get a 5-star each and every year, and we don't have to. You'll find examples of successful teams with lots of 5-stars and examples of successful teams with no 5-stars. We will be somewhere in between, and I'm more than fine with that.
Click to expand...

+1
 

The-Real-Truth said:
How do you explain Butler being a good team year after year? Are they loaded with 4, 5-star players?
Click to expand...

It's called top-notch recruiting. Having a campus in the center of the State of Basketball (Indiana) doesn't hurt either. There are enough elite high school players in the Hoosier state to feed almost all the colleges that reside there.
Again, what Butler does with 3/2 star talent is amazing. It's not common though. Again, it's the exception, not the rule. I don't disagree that you can run a successful college basketball program with lower-rated recruits. It's just MUCH harder to compete for a national title, which is part of the reason why Butler's run this season is so intriguing.
Programs like the Wisconsin Badgers simply get it. Though it routinely brings in 4 star prospects, Wisconsin doesn't normally have elite-level recruiting classes. The Badgers thrive because of their system. Bo Ryan understands that the only way his team can compete year after year in the Big Ten is to rely on a specific style of play. For Wisconsin, it's the swing offense.
I think this is exactly what Tubby is trying to establish here at Minnesota with his pressure defense. He even said it himself: The only way Minnesota can win consistently is to overachieve. Translation: We don't have the raw talent to get away with very many mistakes.
 

The 2010 recruiting class isn't over yet and people aren't talking up Hollins and Eliason like you describe. Plenty of people aren't thrilled with the class SO FAR, but why bash two incoming players who haven't even gotten a chance to prove themselves at the college level yet? The gophers were in discussion with plenty of 4 & 5 star recruits, along with tons and tons of other schools, so they committed elsewhere. Do you know anything about Maurice Walker? Why would we not get excited about him?

frannyjunk said:
I think Tubby is a great coach. Here's the but. His goal is to bring the Gopher program up to the level of MSU and tOSU (& Purdue). His is being paid close to an Izzo, Matta, etc. His results to date is fantastic compared to Monson, but lacking compared to MSU and tOSU. He was doing well in the recruiting department, but dropped off in 2010. Seemed like the Gophs were not in many discussions with 4 & 5 star recruits all year (that was published anyway). Instead, this board talk up Hollins and Eliason as the second coming of Quincy Lewis and Joel Pryzbilla. Also, getting excited about Reggie Murphy and Maurice Walker? The reason why the Gophs bowed out in the 1st round of the dance 2 years in a row is because of a lack of a dominant player (or two). As it stands right now:

RSIII & Iverson = good centers but not dominant. Iverson showed flashes in the B10T
Horfabber = deadly spot up jump shooter (can't create own shot)
DJ = good PG/SG
Damien = very good defender, ok offensive player
Westbrook = dominant at times, but disappears too often

Notice that none of these guys will likely be drafted in the 1st round in the NBA (RSIII & Iverson might go in the 2nd round in 2012). Remember the Gophs run to the Elite 8/Final 4. Those teams had Lewis, J. Thomas and Jackson that went in the first round. Not sure if anybody on the current roster (maybe RSIII) has NBA potential.

So, how is a great coach with good (but not dominant) talent get to the upper echelons and dance deep in the NCAAs? Certainly not with talents like Hollins and Eliason .... at least not on paper. It'll be very hard for me to be excited about the 2010 recruiting class unless if Cory signs.
Click to expand...

 

underground629 said:
The 2010 recruiting class isn't over yet and people aren't talking up Hollins and Eliason like you describe. Plenty of people aren't thrilled with the class SO FAR, but why bash two incoming players who haven't even gotten a chance to prove themselves at the college level yet? The gophers were in discussion with plenty of 4 & 5 star recruits, along with tons and tons of other schools, so they committed elsewhere. Do you know anything about Maurice Walker? Why would we not get excited about him?

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Walker per scout.com is a 3 star prospect. Just like Eliason and Hollins. If people aren't thrilled with EE and AH, how does one get excited about Walker? I hope Cory Joseph decides to join his brother.
 

frannyjunk said:
Walker per scout.com is a 3 star prospect. Just like Eliason and Hollins. If people aren't thrilled with EE and AH, how does one get excited about Walker? I hope Cory Joseph decides to join his brother.
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Your argument assumes that the scout.com star system explains anything and everything. It doesn't.
 

People are out for instant gratification, and getting 4 and 5 star players gives you that. I'll take 3 stars, good workers, and good people over a few one and done players every day. Unfortunatley people dont have the attention span to waite for players to develop. Case in point - Iverson the past 4 weeks or so.
 

frannyjunk said:
First off, some statistics.

Michigan State
2008 - overall class ranked (by ESPN) 16, with 3 Top 100 recruits (Lucious, Green & Roe)
2009 - overall class ranked (by ESPN) outside of 25, with 2 Top 100 recruits (Nix & Sherman)
2010 - overall class ranked (by ESPN) 5, with 3 Top 100 recruits (#24, 31 &61)

Ohio State
2007 - overall class ranked (by ESPN) 9, with 4 Top 100 recruits (Koufos, Turner, Diebler, Lauderdale)
2008 - overall class ranked (by ESPN) 3, with 3 Top 100 recruits (Buford, Mullens & Crater)
2009 - no recruits
2010 - overall class ranked (by ESPN) 2, with 3 Top 100 recruits (#2, 12 & 73)

Gophers
2008 - overall class ranked (by ESPN) 25, with 0 Top 100 recruits
2009 - overall class ranked (by ESPN) 22, with 2 Top 100 recruits (White & William)
2010 - outside of Top 25

Clearly, Ohio State and Michigan State is the class of the Big 10. It appeared that the Gophs were making progress and making up ground on the B10 elites in the last 2 years. What happened in 2010? Hollins and Eliason will make nice role players, but clearly not in the class of tOSU or MSU. Anybody care to speculate on what Tubby was thinking???
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Tubby was probably thinking White and Mbakwe would actually get to play when he signed them.

Hollins has great upside potential. Role player to start out but solid player as upperclassman.

Eliason likewise. RS to start. Solid Big 10 player as upperclassman.

Perhaps you don't know but RECRUITING ISN'T OVER YET.

Sheesh.
 

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