Question for Fleck Critics

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boatwagon said:
That is going low. Although I possibly left myself open for that. More questioning of my choices I guess. Go Gophers and Row the Frickin' Boat
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You did and it's Row the Boat, Ski-U-Mah, Go Gophers. One would think a PJ backer would know that! :p
 

Section2 said:
Offended by PJ Fleck. I can't even imagine how sad of a human being you'd have to be to make that statement.

If you love the team and want them to be successful, I'd think you could get over your personal malice toward the man based on the trajectory and results alone.

But even if not, I'd think, man, at least I can see that the players are doing well in school and in the community, that's a positive.

And even if you don't care about that, and you're just an angry miserable person, to state that he offends you. Just speechless.
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Wow this is some scary stuff. It is like Spoofin is trying to leave Scientology in this thread.
 

Section2 said:
Offended by PJ Fleck. I can't even imagine how sad of a human being you'd have to be to make that statement.

If you love the team and want them to be successful, I'd think you could get over your personal malice toward the man based on the trajectory and results alone.

But even if not, I'd think, man, at least I can see that the players are doing well in school and in the community, that's a positive.

And even if you don't care about that, and you're just an angry miserable person, to state that he offends you. Just speechless.
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Yeah, I have to agree with this. Even through an extremely puritanical lens, finding offense in Fleck’s actions seems disingenuous.
 


Section2 said:
If you love the team and want them to be successful, I'd think you could get over your personal malice toward the man based on the trajectory and results alone.
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So if I don’t like PJ for how he conducts himself, I should forget all that because he wins games? I shouldn’t be surprised you think that makes sense.

Section2 said:
But even if not, I'd think, man, at least I can see that the players are doing well in school and in the community, that's a positive.
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You aren’t the brightest bulb are you? Please show me even once when I have not complimented the coaches and players for their academic success and community involvement. If you feel so strong on your position why make things up?


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Minnesota said:
Yeah, I have to agree with this. Even through an extremely puritanical lens, finding offense in Fleck’s actions seems disingenuous.
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Really? It’s not like I said him running or saying RTB or putting oars on the unis offends me. I said anyone who is intentionally and consistently dishonest - targeting people who are ill-informed, apathetic, etc. - all in an effort to create false perceptions for their benefit offends me. How is that disingenuous? How does that description not fit PJ?


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Reusse just proclaimed on 1500 that he believes that Fleck is immoral and corrupting young minds. Yup. So that's his take.
 

Spoofin said:
Really? It’s not like I said him running or saying RTB or putting oars on the unis offends me. I said anyone who is intentionally and consistently dishonest - targeting people who are ill-informed, apathetic, etc. - all in an effort to create false perceptions for their benefit offends me. How is that disingenuous? How does that description not fit PJ?


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It can appear to be disingenuous, because what you are offended by some people take as exaggeration. Plus, many people don't believe that PJ is intentionally targeting the ill-informed, the apathetic, all in an effort to fleece people. You presenting this can potentially make people more angry, because if anyone doesn't agree with you, they are simply ill-informed and of lesser minds.

That's not a good look, bub.
 
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kisarazu said:
It can appear to be disingenuous, because what you are offended by some people take as exaggeration. Plus, many people don't believe that PJ is intentionally targeting the ill-informed, the apathetic, all in an effort to fleece people. You presenting this can potentially make people more angry, because if anyone doesn't agree with you, they are simply ill-informed and of lesser minds.

That's not a good look, bub.
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I’m not telling anyone they should be offended. I’m not demanding anyone agree with me nor am I judging anyone who doesn’t. You are losing sight of who is demanding certain behavior from others here.

You are also connecting dots that don’t need to be. I didn’t say nor did I imply that if you don’t agree with me you are ill-informed or apathetic. You wouldn’t have to be either of those things to disagree with my opinion - however, that is who PJ is targeting with these “exaggerations” as those that are informed and passionate about Gopher FB know they aren’t accurate. Almost by definition you would have to be ill-informed on this topic to think what PJ is saying is fact.

Lesser Mind? You added that one all by yourself, bub.


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Spoofin said:
So if I don’t like PJ for how he conducts himself, I should forget all that because he wins games?
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Your whole argument against PJ apparently hinges on a handful of instances where he maybe used hyperbole in an interview. And for that you’re willing to use words like “dishonest” and ”conduct”.

By all accounts he runs one of the cleanest programs in the country. In a sport plagued by cheating na’er-do-well coaches overseeing dirty programs. So the basis of you criticism, considering the depths of your criticism, has always seemed totally ridiculous.

So ridiculous, it’s not plausible. You’re clearly screwing with us all. You’re Spoofin.
 

Goldmember said:
Your whole argument against PJ apparently hinges on a handful of instances where he maybe used hyperbole in an interview. And for that you’re willing to use words like “dishonest” and ”conduct”.

By all accounts he runs one of the cleanest programs in the country. In a sport plagued by cheating na’er-do-well coaches overseeing dirty programs. So the basis of you criticism, considering the depths of your criticism, has always seemed totally ridiculous.

So ridiculous, it’s not plausible. You’re clearly screwing with us all. You’re Spoofin.
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There's no "maybe" about it, and lying isn't hyperbole.

He does run one of the cleanest programs in the country, which is wonderful. It also has zero to do with the topic at hand.
 

Goldmember said:
Your whole argument against PJ apparently hinges on a handful of instances where he maybe used hyperbole in an interview. And for that you’re willing to use words like “dishonest” and ”conduct”.
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Dishonest: <b>intended to mislead </b> or cheat

Yep, I think that fits. Unless, of course, you don’t think he knows how many games we won last year, how many upperclassmen are on the team, how many seniors on scholarship, what he made at WMU, or our recruiting rankings?

Again, don’t be offended if you don’t want to be - but let’s not pretend dishonest doesn’t fit.


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kisarazu said:
It can appear to be disingenuous, because what you are offended by some people take as exaggeration. Plus, many people don't believe that PJ is intentionally targeting the ill-informed, the apathetic, all in an effort to fleece people. You presenting this can potentially make people more angry, because if anyone doesn't agree with you, they are simply ill-informed and of lesser minds.

That's not a good look, bub.
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Exaggerations are things like when PJ said that Maryland was one of the most talented teams in the big ten. Spoofin has pointed to a handful of instances where PJ said things that were objectively untrue. There is a difference.
 

PMWinSTP said:
Yeah, Gophs should have some rivalry trophies...
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The rest of the college football world has no idea how far the Axe trophy goes back. The LBJ is awesome but we don't even play Michigan every year anymore. The trophy games are for the two schools, the rest of the country doesnt care, see Egg Bowl.
 

HoustonTXGopher said:
The rest of the college football world has no idea how far the Axe trophy goes back. The LBJ is awesome but we don't even play Michigan every year anymore. The trophy games are for the two schools, the rest of the country doesnt care, see Egg Bowl.
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Are you telling me the whole country doesnt rise with anticipation when minnesota and penn state face off for the historic victory bell?
 


Pompous Elitist said:
My POV is the many...exaggerations feed into his persona as a motivational speaker crossed with a used car salesman. If you want specific examples well it’s not hard to generate some: constantly not knowing how many seniors and juniors are on the team (excluding walk ons), but then using walk on numbers plus scholarship numbers to create statements like 80% of the team is underclassmen which is still not accurate...it’s all a little shell game like. The 4 out of 5 thing was another head scratcher.

Some it is is just straight up sales 101 like the trumpeting of recruiting rankings 8 months or even years ahead of signing day, something maybe sort of quasi true but totally irrelevant all at the same time. I think everyone does this, it’s one of those things some people get excited about.

The pay cut thing was a classic. I mean, I suppose if you look at all the years of the WMU offer and compare it to 1 year at MN, or something...that was really wierd.

Bottom line is we all know that guy that exaggerates everything. That’s PJ bit to his credit I think he either reads here or has a handler read here and give him feedback because he does seem to have genuinely toned it down and is a little more circumspect which is good because IMO totally unnecessary for the mission. And look, I LIKE the guy. He gets me fired up. But some of it is too much.


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I always took Fleck's "paycut" comment to mean that he had other offers for more money but chose Minnesota for the whole package. I never though he meant WMU was already paying him more.
 



Pompous Elitist said:
Loyalty talk, huh. It’s strange how some still seem to think the RTB slogan is a part of the program. It is PJF on rent to the department for a long as he’s employed.
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While Fleck is here the slogan is part of the program.

Everyone understands once he leaves the slogan leaves with him and the next coach’s slogan will be on rent to the department for as long as their employed.

It’s really not that complicated.


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scools12 said:
While Fleck is here the slogan is part of the program.

Everyone understands once he leaves the slogan leaves with him and the next coach’s slogan will be on rent to the department for as long as their employed.

It’s really not that complicated.


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You wonder why some take issue with that? Can’t help you. Learn to agree to disagree.
 


Please take note these items (exaggerations, etc) keep getting brought up again, again, and again because a band of fanatics cannot just “let it go” that someone questioned or maybe held their nose a little to the occasional “questionable” statements from object of their affection.

Never mind none here has ever suggested these are fireable offenses or even close to that. Similar behavior is inherent in many areas of business, for example, and probably second nature to some of the posters that really get wadded up over this. Caveat emptor.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Please take note these items (exaggerations, etc) keep getting brought up again, again, and again because a band of fanatics cannot just “let it go” that someone questioned or maybe held their nose a little to the occasional “questionable” statements from object of their affection.

Never mind none here has ever suggested these are fireable offenses or even close to that. Similar behavior is inherent in many areas of business, for example, and probably second nature to some of the posters that really get wadded up over this. Caveat emptor.
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Wow. Are you sure it's not you who is getting "wadded up"?

I mean, come on... if there are two running backs in a game, and one of the backs gains over 100 yards and the other gains 99, and the coach says they had two backs who gained 100 yards... who is it on Gopher Hole getting "wadded up" about it?

Who keeps track of every Fleck exaggeration, and can produce a link — in two minutes flat — to "prove his dishonesty"?

I dunno, man... if you ask me, that's an indication of someone who might be a little bit, well, "wadded up". But, hey, yeah... agree to disagree.
 
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If you’re referring to those who have excessively whined and obsessed about a college football coach and what he says for 3 straight years as fanatics that can’t “let it go” you would be correct.


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RememberMurray said:
Wow. Are you sure it's not you who is getting "wadded up"?

I mean, come on... if there are two running backs in a game, and one of the backs gains over 100 yards and the other gains 99, and the coach says they had two backs who gained 100 yards... who is it on Gopher Hole getting "wadded up" about it?

Who keeps track of every Fleck exaggeration, and can produce a link — in two minutes flat — to "prove his dishonesty"?

I dunno, man... if you ask me, that's an indication of someone who might be a little bit, well, "wadded up". But, hey, yeah... agree to disagree.
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I didn’t bring that up but yeah, add it to the (long) list. Honestly, why does it bother you so much PJ has a beef with being a straight shooter.

I can still remember the taste of ivory soap after I lied to my mother. I guess I was cured of the need to fib. It’s really not necessary. If he’d stop saying unnecessary dumb things people would stop questioning what he’s talking about. Make sense...? Some of my best buds present and last are massive bull****ters. It’s ok, everyone understands and they are entertaining.
 

scools12 said:
If you’re referring to those who have excessively whined and obsessed about a college football coach and what he says for 3 straight years as fanatics that can’t “let it go” you would be correct.


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Again, every single post I’ve ever made on this subject has been in response to other people bringing it up or as a response to being called a number of names after asking about a nonsensical number - in the beginning I genuinely wondered how we lost so many players or how a certain percentage or claim or pay cut came about. Now I realize it’s all just part of the pitch. I get it, he’s on. But here we are still talking about stuff from 3 years ago because YOU guys brought it up.
 

HoustonTXGopher said:
Thanks for the article......maybe it really boils down to what PJ reminded of us in his press conference after the Nebraska game. When speaking of Sam Renner and how smart he is, PJ said eventually the conversation is essentially over his head, he then said, I only made a 16 on my ACT. LOL
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I believe he said 18...
 

Spoofin said:
I’m not telling anyone they should be offended. I’m not demanding anyone agree with me nor am I judging anyone who doesn’t. You are losing sight of who is demanding certain behavior from others here.
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Maybe, I didn't read the whole thread. You got me there.

Spoofin said:
You are also connecting dots that don’t need to be. I didn’t say nor did I imply that if you don’t agree with me you are ill-informed or apathetic. … Almost by definition you would have to be ill-informed on this topic to think what PJ is saying is fact.
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I just connected the dots in your own paragraph.

Spoofin said:
Lesser Mind? You added that one all by yourself, bub.
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Temperance isn't your strength.

bleedsmaroonandgold said:
Exaggerations are things like when PJ said that Maryland was one of the most talented teams in the big ten. Spoofin has pointed to a handful of instances where PJ said things that were objectively untrue. There is a difference.
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I don't disagree with many of them. I do disagree that I don't know PJ. I've never met PJ. His press conferences often make me cringe. However, on any given pre-game and post-game press conference on Saturdays you will hear those same kinds of "that's a great team, some stat, youth that, top this, best that" all the time.
 
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