Question for Fleck Critics

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noamfromm said:
I don't understand why people are so riled up that Spoof finds it offensive.
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No one is riled up about.

He’s one of the biggest asshats on the board so he gets called out for the fraud he is.

He cried about posters being mean to him and left for a while. She’ll be ok.


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scools12 said:
No one is riled up about.

He’s one of the biggest asshats on the board so he gets called out for the fraud he is.

He cried about posters being mean to him and left for a while. She’ll be ok.


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The complete lack of self awareness that is such classic scool.
 

Spoofin said:
I noted that too - but things like that one don’t bother me. Only when it is intentionally* done to alter perception of reality.

*IMO


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Yesterday on the pregame show, PJ was interviewed by Gaard and the subject turned to the improved OL play. PJ talked about Callahan and what a wonderful job he was doing. Said something along the lines "we had only 4 OL when we got here and we've built it up to now 17 or 18 scholarship OL."

As far as PJ is concerned, I wasn't sure about him as a coach initially. That first season and the way we looked the last few games of that year didn't change my opinion. Last year though, they looked so much different and better(post R Smith time) and I see that the players really are buying into what he is selling. I like that they have developed an identity on both sides of the ball and really try to impose their will on the other team.
I have never been a fan of the RTB, HYPRR, etc. slogans and never will be. Don't like them being focus of the team,- on uni's, being promoted more or almost as much as the Gophers nickname, etc. Would rather all that be the focus of the team more internally. So glad someone put an end to the maxi pad helmet stripe, my only question to that is what took so long! :) I'm wondering if Coyle had something to do with that as during his pregame interview with Gaard, he made mention that PJ asks for quite a bit and sometimes the admin has had to say no to him.
Also, like spoofin, I find much of the things he says to be eye roll worthy and the dishonesty or stretching of the truth is quite annoying.
 

GFBfan said:
Yesterday on the pregame show, PJ was interviewed by Gaard and the subject turned to the improved OL play. PJ talked about Callahan and what a wonderful job he was doing. Said something along the lines "we had only 4 OL when we got here and we've built it up to now 17 or 18 scholarship OL."

As far as PJ is concerned, I wasn't sure about him as a coach initially. That first season and the way we looked the last few games of that year didn't change my opinion. Last year though, they looked so much different and better(post R Smith time) and I see that the players really are buying into what he is selling. I like that they have developed an identity on both sides of the ball and really try to impose their will on the other team.
I have never been a fan of the RTB, HYPRR, etc. slogans and never will be. Don't like them being focus of the team,- on uni's, being promoted more or almost as much as the Gophers nickname, etc. Would rather all that be the focus of the team more internally. So glad someone put an end to the maxi pad helmet stripe, my only question to that is what took so long! :) I'm wondering if Coyle had something to do with that as during his pregame interview with Gaard, he made mention that PJ asks for quite a bit and sometimes the admin has had to say no to him.
Also, like spoofin, I find much of the things he says to be eye roll worthy and the dishonesty or stretching of the truth is quite annoying.
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So, to sum up: he can be "annoying" and "dishonest"... but you like that the team is "buying into what he is selling?"

Ooooooo-kay.
 


PJ is well aware that many find him odd, offensive, or not for them. He is okay with that. Gopher football fans should be too. Good thread though, I like the intensity.
 

RememberMurray said:
So, to sum up: he can be "annoying" and "dishonest"... but you like that the team is "buying into what he is selling?"

Ooooooo-kay.
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Why are you so butt hurt when others don't like ALL things PJ?
I think it is great we are 6 - 0 right now. Not only that we have improved as the year has gone on. The offense has been dominant and the defense has been pretty lights out recently.
 

My POV is the many...exaggerations feed into his persona as a motivational speaker crossed with a used car salesman. If you want specific examples well it’s not hard to generate some: constantly not knowing how many seniors and juniors are on the team (excluding walk ons), but then using walk on numbers plus scholarship numbers to create statements like 80% of the team is underclassmen which is still not accurate...it’s all a little shell game like. The 4 out of 5 thing was another head scratcher.

Some it is is just straight up sales 101 like the trumpeting of recruiting rankings 8 months or even years ahead of signing day, something maybe sort of quasi true but totally irrelevant all at the same time. I think everyone does this, it’s one of those things some people get excited about.

The pay cut thing was a classic. I mean, I suppose if you look at all the years of the WMU offer and compare it to 1 year at MN, or something...that was really wierd.

Bottom line is we all know that guy that exaggerates everything. That’s PJ bit to his credit I think he either reads here or has a handler read here and give him feedback because he does seem to have genuinely toned it down and is a little more circumspect which is good because IMO totally unnecessary for the mission. And look, I LIKE the guy. He gets me fired up. But some of it is too much.


.
 
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scools12 said:
No one is riled up about.

He’s one of the biggest asshats on the board so he gets called out for the fraud he is.

He cried about posters being mean to him and left for a while. She’ll be ok.


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You would be wise to not read Mully’s posts as fact. Also, if you could explain to me how I am a fraud that would be great. I don’t like PJ - I don’t know how I could be any more open, honest, and consistent about that.

Also, the girl joke is top notch. You are one clever individual.


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GFBfan said:
Why are you so butt hurt when others don't like ALL things PJ?
I think it is great we are 6 - 0 right now. Not only that we have improved as the year has gone on. The offense has been dominant and the defense has been pretty lights out recently.
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And THAT is the rub. Well said.

PJ publicly says he is OK with the fact that some people won’t like him. However, many of PJ’s fans aren’t for some reason.


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dpodoll68 said:
LOL! This is essentially the polar opposite of the actual situation.

Roll Tide
Hook 'Em Horns
War Eagle
Touch the Rock
Tiger Bait
We Are....
That Team Up North/O-H I-O
Go Gators
Woo Pig Sooie
Go Blue
Fight On!
Boomer Sooner
Play Like a Champion

Yes, top 20 teams don't have catch phrases or slogans.
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to be clear, when I say "catch phrases and slogans" in regard to Fleck, I am NOT talking about things like "Golden Gophers" or "Ski-U-Mah," which have been associated with the program for years. I am talking about things like "F.A.M.I.L.Y," "Nekton Mentality," "HYPRR," and yes, "Row the boat." those are all specific to Fleck. And, of course, saying that everything is "elite."

most of the examples you cited are nicknames or long-time slogans that are associated with the school or the program. they do not change if the coach changes.

I have to say, the fervor of the Fleck defenders is amazing. Any perceived slight to "their" coach and they go into attack mode. Because no one should be allowed to have a differing opinion. We must all drink the Fleck Flavor-Aid.

And all this in a thread that began by asking for opinions from the Fleck critics. What did you expect in a thread aimed at Fleck Critics? Did you expect the critics to fall on their knees like Paul on the road to Damascus and beg for forgiveness?
 

Fleck (9/12/17):
Fleck did not say why Croft will be away, but followed his comments with forceful explanations about the culture he’s trying to instill in his first year at Minnesota. Croft’s absence could be indefinite, if not permanent, a source said. “If you do not do the right thing academically, athletically, socially and spiritually, and you do not uphold the high, high expectations of our culture on and off the field, you will not play,” Fleck said. “And it does not matter who you are.”
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Also Fleck (10/14/17):
With 6:38 left in the 1st half, Gophers down 17-6 to MSU and 0-2 in the conference, (against MD and Purdue), Fleck realizes that Croft had finally learned his lesson and was now upholding the high, high expectations of Fleck's culture and pulls Rhoda in favor of Croft.

I mean, principles are great and everything, but winning is nice too.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
to be clear, when I say "catch phrases and slogans" in regard to Fleck, I am NOT talking about things like "Golden Gophers" or "Ski-U-Mah," which have been associated with the program for years. I am talking about things like "F.A.M.I.L.Y," "Nekton Mentality," "HYPRR," and yes, "Row the boat." those are all specific to Fleck. And, of course, saying that everything is "elite."

most of the examples you cited are nicknames or long-time slogans that are associated with the school or the program. they do not change if the coach changes.

I have to say, the fervor of the Fleck defenders is amazing. Any perceived slight to "their" coach and they go into attack mode. Because no one should be allowed to have a differing opinion. We must all drink the Fleck Flavor-Aid.

And all this in a thread that began by asking for opinions from the Fleck critics. What did you expect in a thread aimed at Fleck Critics? Did you expect the critics to fall on their knees like Paul on the road to Damascus and beg for forgiveness?
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I am a supporter of PJ and it doesn’t bother me that you don’t like him. It is just when the justifications don’t add up, that some feel compelled to push back. And don’t paint us as mindless zombies by saying we drank the Kool Aid.

Also, do a little checking and you will see that all of the programs have some sort of motivational slogans every year. Here is just one year at Alabama
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short ornery norwegian said:
to be clear, when I say "catch phrases and slogans" in regard to Fleck, I am NOT talking about things like "Golden Gophers" or "Ski-U-Mah," which have been associated with the program for years. I am talking about things like "F.A.M.I.L.Y," "Nekton Mentality," "HYPRR," and yes, "Row the boat." those are all specific to Fleck. And, of course, saying that everything is "elite."

most of the examples you cited are nicknames or long-time slogans that are associated with the school or the program. they do not change if the coach changes.

I have to say, the fervor of the Fleck defenders is amazing. Any perceived slight to "their" coach and they go into attack mode. Because no one should be allowed to have a differing opinion. We must all drink the Fleck Flavor-Aid.

And all this in a thread that began by asking for opinions from the Fleck critics. What did you expect in a thread aimed at Fleck Critics? Did you expect the critics to fall on their knees like Paul on the road to Damascus and beg for forgiveness?
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LOL again. You're calling me a Fleck defender? I make fun of the Fleck brigade as much as anyone on this board. What you typed, and what I corrected, had nothing to do with Fleck. What you said was just provably and demonstrably false. And now you're trying to qualify it, and even your qualification is wrong. Every coach brings slogans and mottos to a program. Every one. Every Gophers coach has had slogans and mottos. You don't like this particular Gophers coach's slogans and mottos, which is perfectly fine and well within your rights, but stop trying to pretend that he invented something new by making up slogans and mottos.
 

I’ve been wondering how many records need to be surpassed, how many “first time since WWII”’s, how many consecutive wins, how many not blown victories, etc. had to happen for skeptics to start saying “well hey maybe I don’t mind this Fleck guy”. His mantras and all that can get annoying, but I think he’s sincere about wanting to make the U of M a great football school again. I think he cares about giving us reasons to fill those seats and pack that stadium again. I think he wants to make the U of M his home (at least for quite awhile). I think he sees our school as a place he could leave his mark in college football history with. Also, anthracite was during Kill. Kill’s “brick by brick” slogan was infused into uniforms and helmets if anyone remembers. I’m sorry but if we’re going to say Row the Boat has no connection to the U of M, am I missing where Gophers have any relation to bricks? Row the Boat at least has a heartfelt background to it.

I know Gopher fans worshipped Kill, I loved him too. But I think in hindsight, he and Claeys weren’t going to get us past slightly above average. I think a lot of Fleck skeptics/critics must have enjoyed 7-5, 8-4, 9-3, non-Big Ten champs, unranked, non-Rose Bowl attending Gopher football teams.


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I've never cared at all about oars on the jerseys. Never even really notice it. Truth be told as a lifelong MN fan I don't know why any of us care. 'Golden Gophers' is the about the least intimidating, least cool mascot/nickname in college. If we care, lets change that lol
 

mjfelton15 said:
I know Gopher fans worshipped Kill, I loved him too. But I think in hindsight, he and Claeys weren’t going to get us past slightly above average. I think a lot of Fleck skeptics/critics must have enjoyed 7-5, 8-4, 9-3, non-Big Ten champs, unranked, non-Rose Bowl attending Gopher football teams.


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Yes, Yes, Yes. We know. TC had “hit his ceiling”. It was “obvious”. GH is filled with sorcerers and prophets.


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I didn't know I was a sorcerer for thinking Claeys was not the right solution.


I gonna be trying some spells later today!
 

GFBfan said:
Why are you so butt hurt when others don't like ALL things PJ?
I think it is great we are 6 - 0 right now. Not only that we have improved as the year has gone on. The offense has been dominant and the defense has been pretty lights out recently.
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I'm not "butt hurt", nor am I "riled up". I'm simply puzzled by the attitudes some people have, that's all. I'd like to understand them better, and that's why I ask questions.

As you pointed out, the team is winning games, has a nice streak going — and yet some here (on a fan web site) seem to feel the need to find some sort of dark cloud that surrounds this silver lining. I'm curious as to why, that's all.
 

RememberMurray said:
I'm not "butt hurt", nor am I "riled up". I'm simply puzzled by the attitudes some people have, that's all. I'd like to understand them better, and that's why I ask questions.

As you pointed out, the team is winning games, has a nice streak going — and yet some here (on a fan web site) seem to feel the need to find some sort of dark cloud that surrounds this silver lining. I'm curious as to why, that's all.
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You're conjuring this out of nothing. Everyone here (i don't think that is an overstatement) is thrilled with the state of the team and the direction it is going. And PJ does and should get the credit for that. I haven't seen a single post trying to deflect credit away from PJ. Some people (myself included) just don't care for some of the ways PJ goes about communicating about the team. That's not a dark cloud, that's a personal preference. You're acting like this was a thread for something completely related to a specific game or actual football related topic and was then hi-jacked by an Anti-Fleck squad.

I'm sure there are Alabama fans that bask in the success of the program, but personally think Saban is an ass. Just like there are probably some Sconnie fans, that in a rare and fleeting moment of sobriety, think their coach is boring. Neither of those are "dark clouds" just like people not being personal fans of PJ's schtick isn't.
 

CurveballJesus said:
You're conjuring this out of nothing. Everyone here (i don't think that is an overstatement) is thrilled with the state of the team and the direction it is going. And PJ does and should get the credit for that. I haven't seen a single post trying to deflect credit away from PJ. Some people (myself included) just don't care for some of the ways PJ goes about communicating about the team. That's not a dark cloud, that's a personal preference. You're acting like this was a thread for something completely related to a specific game or actual football related topic and was then hi-jacked by an Anti-Fleck squad.

I'm sure there are Alabama fans that bask in the success of the program, but personally think Saban is an ass. Just like there are probably some Sconnie fans, that in a rare and fleeting moment of sobriety, think their coach is boring. Neither of those are "dark clouds" just like people not being personal fans of PJ's schtick isn't.
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As I've said, I merely asked a few questions. I wanted to try to understand.

I think I've got my answers now:

"Salesman"
"Dishonest"
"Attention seeker"
"Schtick"

I'll admit I thought there might be something new and/or original that was worth consideration. Unfortunately, it appears to be just the same old, familiar Reusse/Barreiro litany.

From "Music Man" to "Ol' Country Jer", we've heard it for years.

Okay, I get it now.
 

RememberMurray said:
As I've said, I merely asked a few questions. I wanted to try to understand.

I think I've got my answers now:

"Salesman"
"Dishonest"
"Attention seeker"
"Schtick"

I'll admit I thought there might be something new and/or original that was worth consideration. Unfortunately, it appears to be just the same old, familiar Reusse/Barreiro litany.

From "Music Man" to "Ol' Country Jer", we've heard it for years.

Okay, I get it now.
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All those things you listed, were his MO prior to coming here. He hasn't changed and you're puzzled because some don't like it and you want people to come up with new reasons? You think that those that don't like all things PJ are only that way because of Reusse/Barreiro?

Had Claeys stayed the coach and we were in this position with him, do you think there would be some people on GH who didn't like his demeanor, dress during games and weight?
 

GFBfan said:
All those things you listed, were his MO prior to coming here. He hasn't changed and you're puzzled because some don't like it and you want people to come up with new reasons? You think that those that don't like all things PJ are only that way because of Reusse/Barreiro?

Had Claeys stayed the coach and we were in this position with him, do you think there would be some people on GH who didn't like his demeanor, dress during games and weight?
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I was wondering if there was something new or interesting. Something I hadn't noticed that others had. Something worth consideration.

Apparently: no.

Same old, same old.
 

CurveballJesus said:
You're conjuring this out of nothing. Everyone here (i don't think that is an overstatement) is thrilled with the state of the team and the direction it is going. And PJ does and should get the credit for that. I haven't seen a single post trying to deflect credit away from PJ. Some people (myself included) just don't care for some of the ways PJ goes about communicating about the team. That's not a dark cloud, that's a personal preference. You're acting like this was a thread for something completely related to a specific game or actual football related topic and was then hi-jacked by an Anti-Fleck squad.

I'm sure there are Alabama fans that bask in the success of the program, but personally think Saban is an ass. Just like there are probably some Sconnie fans, that in a rare and fleeting moment of sobriety, think their coach is boring. Neither of those are "dark clouds" just like people not being personal fans of PJ's schtick isn't.
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Speaking of Paul Chryst----everytime I see him interviewed, I can't help but think of Tracy Claeys. Although not as large as Claeys, his demeanor and style are very similar. I am by no means wishing Claeys was still here, but Chryst being the face of the Badger program has not hurt them in the least. (even though he comes across much like Claeys in his interviews). Somehow he manages to get recruits without being a well-spoken, polished, slick dressing head coach.
 


I got on the boatwagon about an hour after catching my breath following the first press conference. I've never been so excited about Gopher Football and Fleck is the one that made that happen. I'm frankly sick of listening to all the complainers. How many transfers have happened in the last 12 months at Minnesota? Why can't you think of any? These young men want to play in this culture for this coach. If you don't like it become a Husker fan -- you'll get all the traditional football crap and the losing the goes along with it.
 

I was initially skeptical of the hire because I thought he was Wacker redux. However, the players have bought in and that is what matters. It appears that he really does take the teaching and leadership parts of his job seriously. The vibe around the program in terms of behavior, academics and accountability is more positive than I can recall. The only behavioral problem that was publicized was when Shannon Brooks was accused of beating up his roommate.

My only two concerns are Fleck's ambition (not a criticism) and the RTB stuff on the helmets. Very shortly, the administration is going to have to pay him two boatloads of money to stay because one of the 100K seat stadium program will want him badly. The RTB stuff puts the individual coach's brand over the institution and that's a bad precedent.

Thus far, he's done everything he said he would do. We can't ask for more than that.
 
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boatwagon said:
I got on the boatwagon about an hour after catching my breath following the first press conference. I've never been so excited about Gopher Football and Fleck is the one that made that happen. I'm frankly sick of listening to all the complainers. How many transfers have happened in the last 12 months at Minnesota? Why can't you think of any? These young men want to play in this culture for this coach. If you don't like it become a Husker fan -- you'll get all the traditional football crap and the losing the goes along with it.
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Gervarrious Owens and Kelvin Clemmons to Houston
 


Question for Fleck Critics:

Q: PJ Fleck, best coach ever? Or bestest coach ever?
 

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