Tracy Claeys - Errors from IL game . . .

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GOPHER.NATION. said:
In my opinion, there were some crucial mistakes that TC & co made on Saturday. I would enjoy hearing your opinions

End of the First half:

- I am a nitpick on the first. Why was the decision made to spike the ball on first and goal? If we were going to run a sneak the next play, why wouldn't we run the sneak on first down when the defense is scrambling and then call timeout? Spiking the ball takes takes time off the clock and causes a loss of downs.

- On second down, I am not mad at the play call to run the sneak, but rather concerned with how TC handled the aftermath. I believe (Sorry for any inaccuracies on the time. I tried to find the official amount since I didn't have the game recorded to check) there was 16 seconds left in the half at the start of the play. Once the refs whistled the play dead, TC should have been in their ear calling timeout. There was no signal for a TD, which meant the clock would still run. Instead it took him many seconds to start calling timeout. I feel he was even given a gift when they added three seconds back to the clock to make it 8 seconds remaining instead of 5.

End of the Game:

- WHY WOULD YOU GO FOR 2?!?!?!? What would have happened if we didn't convert and Illinois went down to score? Would IL try to tie it or go for the win with a 2 point conversion? Either way, TC should have put the team into a position where the worst case scenario would have been to go into overtime should IL have made a TD and converted on a 2 point conversion. Would you still be happy with TC's decision to go for two? I feel this decision has been greatly overlooked only because we were successful in our two point attempt

- Finally, per Shannon Brook's TD run, I hope TC will teach his players and remind them in similar situations in the future to not score a TD and go down on the 1 yard line.


Also, it was interesting to see people give TC a standing ovation at the start of the game when they announced this game to be his first "official" game as head coach at TCF after the Michigan debacle and three straight losses . . .
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Typical of many Gopher fans....b$&@^ing about the pecan pralines & cream they got for breakfast.....
 

end of game

After Brooks broke through I was hoping he would take a knee on the 1 ft line.

As for going for 2, at first was in dismay but then thought what the heck...it was all good at this point.
 

GOPHER.NATION. said:
In my opinion, there were some crucial mistakes that TC & co made on Saturday. I would enjoy hearing your opinions

End of the First half:

- I am a nitpick on the first. Why was the decision made to spike the ball on first and goal? If we were going to run a sneak the next play, why wouldn't we run the sneak on first down when the defense is scrambling and then call timeout? Spiking the ball takes takes time off the clock and causes a loss of downs.

- On second down, I am not mad at the play call to run the sneak, but rather concerned with how TC handled the aftermath. I believe (Sorry for any inaccuracies on the time. I tried to find the official amount since I didn't have the game recorded to check) there was 16 seconds left in the half at the start of the play. Once the refs whistled the play dead, TC should have been in their ear calling timeout. There was no signal for a TD, which meant the clock would still run. Instead it took him many seconds to start calling timeout. I feel he was even given a gift when they added three seconds back to the clock to make it 8 seconds remaining instead of 5.

End of the Game:

- WHY WOULD YOU GO FOR 2?!?!?!? What would have happened if we didn't convert and Illinois went down to score? Would IL try to tie it or go for the win with a 2 point conversion? Either way, TC should have put the team into a position where the worst case scenario would have been to go into overtime should IL have made a TD and converted on a 2 point conversion. Would you still be happy with TC's decision to go for two? I feel this decision has been greatly overlooked only because we were successful in our two point attempt

- Finally, per Shannon Brook's TD run, I hope TC will teach his players and remind them in similar situations in the future to not score a TD and go down on the 1 yard line.


Also, it was interesting to see people give TC a standing ovation at the start of the game when they announced this game to be his first "official" game as head coach at TCF after the Michigan debacle and three straight losses . . .
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Not to mention the critical mistake he made on his attire. How did you leave that out?
 

matt said:
Kneeling the ball would have been smart IF we could have run out the clock. There was about 1:25 on the clock though and Illinois still had 1 timeout. We would have had to run actual plays in that situation which could lead to a turnover. Plus a field goal is not a guarantee. I would rather go up by a touchdown plus.

Why does everyone act like it's a foregone conclusion that Illinois would go for 2 if they scored? How often does a team go for 2 in that situation instead of taking the PAT to go to OT? They take the PAT and overtime nearly every time.
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1:25 on the clock when he scored, but the clock starts on the ready for play, so they could call a timeout immediately, but now we kneel on 1st down, clock ticks off probably :40 seconds, kneel on 2nd down, another :40, :05 left, kneel again, ball game.
I don't blame him or the staff for not doing it, there's no way in real time to consider those scenarios and instruct the players, but the fact is that if he kneels down after getting the first down the game is over.
 

Section2 said:
1:25 on the clock when he scored, but the clock starts on the ready for play, so they could call a timeout immediately, but now we kneel on 1st down, clock ticks off probably :40 seconds, kneel on 2nd down, another :40, :05 left, kneel again, ball game.
I don't blame him or the staff for not doing it, there's no way in real time to consider those scenarios and instruct the players, but the fact is that if he kneels down after getting the first down the game is over.
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I agree kneeling would have ended it, but much more work goes into it. When they went in for the last drive, coaches were more likely to say hold onto the ball and don't fumble. They were focused on pounding three runs. I'm of the belief that when players go down it has more to do with their IQ than the coaches teaching it.
 


Kneeling would have ruled out beating the point spread. Beat the spread when every you can! Stay calm on the sidelines. Tell the critics to buzz off. A win is a win and a Big Ten win is priceless. Keep doing it your own way TC and the STAFFERS. Beat that stinking badger, Gopher and END the madness.
 

Going for two was the wrong call.

Obviously, if it pans out, it works (like every call in the history of coaching).

However, if we don't get the two point conversion and Illinois is down 7. . . ugh. Awful call. Illinois could either go for 1 and send it to OT or have a chance to WIN THE GAME. Make Illinois go for 2, for the tie. It's a pretty easy call. It's concerning, to me, that he went the other route.
 

matt said:
Kneeling the ball would have been smart IF we could have run out the clock. There was about 1:25 on the clock though and Illinois still had 1 timeout. We would have had to run actual plays in that situation which could lead to a turnover. Plus a field goal is not a guarantee. I would rather go up by a touchdown plus.

Why does everyone act like it's a foregone conclusion that Illinois would go for 2 if they scored? How often does a team go for 2 in that situation instead of taking the PAT to go to OT? They take the PAT and overtime nearly every time.
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We still could have run the clock out. It would have been a first down. The clock would have kept running. It would have been under a minute before we snapped first down. Even if Illinois calls timeout there, there's ~45 seconds left. Two more kneels and the game is over.
 

GophersInIowa said:
True, but converting it also pretty much guarantees a win. While not converting opens up a chance we lose in regulation, the chance of it happening is sill pretty small.
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Right, so essentially you are saying that the chance of Illinois scoring a TD and a 2 pt conversion is small. This is why you kick the extra point, because even then they have a small chance of tying, and zero chance of winning.
 



Section2 said:
1:25 on the clock when he scored, but the clock starts on the ready for play, so they could call a timeout immediately, but now we kneel on 1st down, clock ticks off probably :40 seconds, kneel on 2nd down, another :40, :05 left, kneel again, ball game.
I don't blame him or the staff for not doing it, there's no way in real time to consider those scenarios and instruct the players, but the fact is that if he kneels down after getting the first down the game is over.
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Agreed. Plus I'm not sure he was in the clear enough to slow down and take a knee without risking getting hit from behind. But in a perfect world, you should take a knee there.
 

Going for 2 is a personality call. If you're conservative, you kick the extra point and lead by 8 and give Illinois a chance to tie. There is no guarantee that you would make that extra point also. Weirder things have happened to us. If you go on percentages then it probably wasn't the right call. But then you should probably never ever pass because your pass percentages probably aren't as good as your run percentages. Ok, I don't know if that's right or not but my point is that you shouldn't play the percentages all the time. If you have a killer instinct, you go for two and make Illinois need to score on two possessions with a little over a minute left. Again, there is no guarantee that you make the two point conversion, and the percentages are probably worse than an extra point try. Either way, if you don't convert on the extra point or two point, you're still ahead by 7.

In my opinion, I'm glad we have Claeys, because although Kill did a lot for this program, his conservative football personality was one of the things I didn't like. Just like how we actually tried to score before the half against Illinois. I am convinced if it was still Kill at the helm, we would have just ran out the clock and be satisfied with not making a mistake.

Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't. But I'd rather try than to not try at all.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Right, so essentially you are saying that the chance of Illinois scoring a TD and a 2 pt conversion is small. This is why you kick the extra point, because even then they have a small chance of tying, and zero chance of winning.
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I'm sure you understand we go to OT, with a completely exhausted defense. At that point I think our odds are less than 50% to win.

It's obviously arguable depending on the factors you consider important, and opinion seems split down the middle.

IMO Claeyes understood his defense was teetering and stood a good chance of giving up the tying TD and 2 point conversion. They had 1:25 and a timeout which is an eternity in college football. Take the game out of the hands of your tired defense and end it. If we can't score, can't stop them from scoring, and lose in OT or on a 2 pt then I believe Claeyes would say we didn't deserve to win the game. And he'd be right.

Right call, for that situation. Wouldn't always be the right call.
 

Fumble while trying to take a knee? Score the touchdown. This is just plain stupid. Goes right along with the coach being over dressed and seemingly disinterested. Really liked going for two and getting a dagger.
 



I liked the two considering situation

If defense was playing well, which it wasn't, force them to need 8
 

howeda7 said:
Agreed. Plus I'm not sure he was in the clear enough to slow down and take a knee without risking getting hit from behind. But in a perfect world, you should take a knee there.
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Swear I'm not trying to be contrarian and you and most of the posters watch more football than I do, but have you ever witnessed a running back breaking free like that and taking a knee? Really curious.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
I'm sure you understand we go to OT, with a completely exhausted defense. At that point I think our odds are less than 50% to win.

It's obviously arguable depending on the factors you consider important, and opinion seems split down the middle.

IMO Claeyes understood his defense was teetering and stood a good chance of giving up the tying TD and 2 point conversion. They had 1:25 and a timeout which is an eternity in college football. Take the game out of the hands of your tired defense and end it. If we can't score, can't stop them from scoring, and lose in OT or on a 2 pt then I believe Claeyes would say we didn't deserve to win the game. And he'd be right.

Right call, for that situation. Wouldn't always be the right call.
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Mitch has score on that roll out a number of times. Great call if he made it or not. Like it has been said the D was tired and OT would have been tough for them. Like TC's choice.
 

fan of Ray Williams said:
Swear I'm not trying to be contrarian and you and most of the posters watch more football than I do, but have you ever witnessed a running back breaking free like that and taking a knee? Really curious.
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I have seen it multiple times.
 


Bob_Loblaw said:
Going for two was the wrong call.

Obviously, if it pans out, it works (like every call in the history of coaching).

However, if we don't get the two point conversion and Illinois is down 7. . . ugh. Awful call. Illinois could either go for 1 and send it to OT or have a chance to WIN THE GAME. Make Illinois go for 2, for the tie. It's a pretty easy call. It's concerning, to me, that he went the other route.
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OK, so they do it your way. How confident are we in the defense to stop the game tying 2 point conversion right after not being able to prevent the TD with 85 seconds left?
 

fan of Ray Williams said:
Swear I'm not trying to be contrarian and you and most of the posters watch more football than I do, but have you ever witnessed a running back breaking free like that and taking a knee? Really curious.
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I recall Maurice Jones-Drew doing this. Not good for the fantasy football team.
 

GopherWeatherGuy said:
Right, so essentially you are saying that the chance of Illinois scoring a TD and a 2 pt conversion is small. This is why you kick the extra point, because even then they have a small chance of tying, and zero chance of winning.
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The chances are small because I don't think Illinois goes for 2 in that situation, not because I don't think they could convert it. If I were Illinois, I would feel very good that we'd win because the Gophers defense is so worn down.

And I think Claeys understood that. That is why he felt the need to try and end it right then.
 

matt said:
Kneeling the ball would have been smart IF we could have run out the clock. There was about 1:25 on the clock though and Illinois still had 1 timeout. We would have had to run actual plays in that situation which could lead to a turnover. Plus a field goal is not a guarantee. I would rather go up by a touchdown plus.

Why does everyone act like it's a foregone conclusion that Illinois would go for 2 if they scored? How often does a team go for 2 in that situation instead of taking the PAT to go to OT? They take the PAT and overtime nearly every time.
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We could have run it out with kneels. They had one time out, we had 4 chances to run the clock (after ball placement before first down and then after first, second, and third down). 3 kneels would have done it.
 

Going for two is going for the throat. Field goal, especially with the way our D had played all game, was no gimme for a win. Absolutely the right call and I can't believe people think otherwise.
 

Here's some gasoline for the 2 pt. conversion discussion.

On his show today Reusse loved it.

Basically called it a "mathematics call" and things will be interesting as long as TC is at the helm with his own personal calculus.

Isaac Newton, move over. There's a new function in town.
 

GophersInIowa said:
The chances are small because I don't think Illinois goes for 2 in that situation, not because I don't think they could convert it. If I were Illinois, I would feel very good that we'd win because the Gophers defense is so worn down.

And I think Claeys understood that. That is why he felt the need to try and end it right then.
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Totally agree with you and this is what TC said to. He said if we get the 2 the game is over, if we don't then at the very worst we are getting overtime because he "knew" Illinois would just kick the extra point. Obviously we will never know what Illinois would have done but they were definitely moving the ball better than us for most the game, a guy could assume they would feel confident going to OT.
 


As stated Saturday, the call for 2 XP conversion was probably made considering a variety of variables. I am convinced, again after some reflection, that it was right decision in that moment and time. It was a situational coaching decision I feel that may have been approached differently given different variables.

In terms of taking a knee and clock management, I highly recommend reading John T. Reed's book on Football Clock Management. It is a must read for anyone in coaching at any level and most neglected aspect of practice at all levels.
 


station19 said:
What would Bert have done?
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Called for a spike play when trailing even though there isn't enough time left on the clock to run another play. Then promptly call a press conference to discuss how tough of the conference the SEC is, citing evidence that while OSU lost to number 9 MSU, Alabama beat 8th ranked Charleston Southern.
 

Even my 14 year old God Son was yelling for Brooks to go down before he scored. I loved Claeys decision to go for 2, it is the right call whether we convert or not. Happy for the Gophers, now let's go get the axe.
 

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